ST Princess/General Leia Organa/Carrie Fisher Discussion Thread

Well, if you feel so strongly that Jedi shouldn’t have kids, then Rey shouldn’t be Leia’s kid, as it turns out that leia WAS a Jedi. She was so much a Jedi, that she was even the Jedi master who trained Rey.

I disagree with you. I think Rey should have been Luke’s daughter. It would have certainly connected the three trilogies together much more coherently, and would have saved the skywalker family from being total losers and failures. It would have given the skywalker saga films and family a satisfying ending. This really could have remained the Skywalker saga instead of being changed into the Palpatine saga if Rey were Luke’s daughter instead of palpatine’s granddaughter.

Also, Luke was already a different Jedi in the OT from the PT Jedi. I could easily see him deciding that some of the old rules, like that of Jedi not having families, should be changed.

 

I give Leia a pass a she quit, and jedi having kids will only one day turn on it's head.

 

Yoda making it a rule that Jedi can't have children was a massive mistake for the Jedi, the blinkered approach seems to be very much a Sith ideal. The two characters, Luke and Leia, should have been accepted to have grown beyond that ideology. As it showed/ended up, the love of the mother and father can be the thing ultimately decides the outcome of a good versus evil battle, even if that battle is within one of the antagonists.

Having Leia follow the Jedi path but unlike Luke, be the one that cannot be tempted by the Dark Side was the way to go, she is the one that had the greater inner strength whilst Luke was the eternal optimist... well he was until someone rewrote the character. Having Leia train Rey would've actually been far more inventive writing instead of blindly following the obvious of Luke being the Jedi mentor.

Leia could've been the Yoda of the ST, being the leader of the light side (PT) and the wise experienced mentor (OT). Strange that nobody thought of it until the retconning of TROS after Carrie's death, given the trillion accusations of a feminist agenda, having Leia become the significant senior heroine seems the logical way to go. Sadly many things about the making of ST seem to lack any sense, probably not the least how it still manages to be enjoyable even with its flaws.

 

Carrie fisher was the only princess Leia. RIP

 

It's interesting how the PT tried to depict the Jedi Order as flawed and in need of reform, and how that totally went over the heads of a great number of fans who still believed it was perfect because they're supposedly the good guys.

Though I disagree about Leia being the one that would be un-tempted by the Dark Side... despite how early drafts of ESB tried to depict Luke as cauldron of suppressed rage, for my money, OT Leia has always been a far darker and more angry, violence-prone character than Luke. Leia as Snoke would've been an extremely interesting plot thread IMO.

 

Absolutely, it's your right to disagree and I see your points as valid but I much preferred Snoke as a mystery character, I'd even go as far as making him far more darker. I don't think it's any coincidence Leia primarily wears white throughout the first 2 films of the OT and only changes in the 3rd film through necessity, that was the mission and the clothing native to the planet. In that GL is saying she was pure, innocent even though she is volatile, her temperament was slowly calming, Like Luke she was maturing, but then as the story progressed we have a moment of truth and temptation...

...Vader ignites Luke's anger by threatening Leia, but would the same have happened had it been Leia on DSII facing Vader and the Emperor. I feel the conclusion would've been the same but Leia wouldn't have resorted to anger out of the same reason. Leia has anger towards her Father for much more than Luke, he murdered her world, tortured her and her friends. I believe had the roles been switched, Leia would have channelled her emotions and dissected Vader's final attack more clinically rather than Luke's frantic rage fuelled assault.

Leia was also an unknown quantity as a Jedi and a teacher for the ST, whilst Luke the Jedi Master and teacher had been written about for over three decades. Just my thoughts and nobody has to agree with them.

 

I always saw Leia as being more like Anakin, while Luke leaned more towards Padme. Luke really only exhibits true rage and anger on the Death Star after dueling Vader and being goaded by two Sith Lords. Other than Vader finally reaching Luke's breaking point by threatening Leia, I wouldn't ever consider Luke someone who is continually fighting a pull to the dark side. In contrast he's unlike most heroes in how caring he is and how concerned he is with the well-being of his friends and family. Leia is much more fiery and hot tempered in the OT.

 

I think similarly. I Luke has the attitude of Padme, but the temperament of Anakin, while Leia can have the temperament of Padme, but the attitude of Anakin. For instance I think both Leia and Anakin are more prone to trash talk than Luke and Padme are. With both Luke and Padme, while the may have some wit at times, I think are more professional in their attitudes usually.

 

I always get the like father, like daughter vibe. IMO Leia was more confident through the whole OT, she believed in herself, was very strong minded and willfull, resisted the probe droid. There's this bit of obstinance that she shares with Anakin.

 

The one thing I really wish they would have done in TROS is make it more obvious that Leia died as a result of using her last energy to reach out to Ben. It is implied, but is a bit confusing of why that happens in the film, unless you read the novelization. I remember reading of a few cut lines surrounding that, and wish they would be restored.

 

I really wish they wouldn't have used any of that footage in TROS.

 

I feel like the best option for Leia in the ST, due to Carrie Fisher's passing, would be to have her die in the space scene in TLJ. Show Kylo reacting to it strongly and use it to setup his eventual redemption if that's what LFL was sincerely planning long term. You could then use some recycled footage of her as a small scene with Kylo in TROS in order to cement his redemption. You could also bring Luke back for a bigger part in TROS to fully train Rey and dispel a lot of the heat from the controversial choices of TLJ.

 

In retrospect, I wonder if there could have been a scenario in which alternate takes of Carrie Fisher on the bridge of the Raddus in TLJ could have been repurposed to have her on the Tantive IV during the Battle of Exegol. The interior lighting could have been similar enough to pull it off I think. That way Leia could have feasibly both reached out to Ben earlier in the film as a moment of compassion, and also been involved in the third act. Of course, that would mean even more heavy lifting for ILM under a compressed schedule.

 

My understanding, based on what Rian has said about it, is that when Carrie died, The Last Jedi as it exists today was the film that she had worked on and what she thought would be released. I know there’s been a lot of debate over how satisfied/dissatisfied some of the actors were with the choices made in the sequels, but considering how close Carrie and Rian became and the fact that she worked with him on the script, I would imagine she was pretty content with the story. I’m sure they Disney was completely against pushing the film’s release date back to re-edit and work the story around her absence so that she could be in Episode IX, too, but I’d like to believe that decision was also made out of respect for Carrie.

Additionally, while I understand people suggesting Leia should’ve died when she got blasted into space, there are some larger issues with opting to go that route that would’ve more negatively impacted the Sequel Trilogy, in my opinion. First of all, we never would’ve gotten the reunion scene between her and Luke, which was one of the most important moments of the entire trilogy for many fans, and I think it was really important for us to have that moment, especially after losing Carrie the year before the film came out. Even people who disliked the trilogy have been largely complimentary of that scene. Secondly, killing her off early on in The Last Jedi after giving her very little to do in The Force Awakens just seems disrespectful to the character and actor. Personally, I think the way her role in the sequels was crafted is a far more fitting finale for her, especially because it finally gave fans a chance to see Leia utilize her Force abilities and pursue her potential as a Jedi (to an extent). It also highlighted her significance as a Skywalker.

I know Leia’s role in the sequels is kind of divisive among fans of the character, but as someone who has adored Leia and Carrie for their entire life, I was so glad that she had the role she did in the Sequel Trilogy. My only wish was that she was alive to film Episode IX and have it properly be her film the way it was intended to be. But I loved Carrie in these films and I really felt like they honored the legacy she left behind. There were certainly things I would’ve changed, particularly about some of the footage used in The Rise of Skywalker, but considering she had passed away and they needed to find a way to make minimal footage of her logically give her narrative weight, I think JJ and crew did a phenomenal job, and they should be commended for giving us back our princess for one last film.

 

This guy gets it.

I like you.

 

In theory, that moment could've been repurposed, as she's dying her reaching out to him and him connecting with her and them having that moment.

I think TLJ didn't give her a lot to do as well. Which I don't understand really.

 

one can only wonder what would have happened if Carrie had lived. When criticism of ROS is made i hope it is remembered at no point did anyone involved wish to have it as anything but a fitting tribute as these people, including her daughter x knew and loved her. A wonder we got anything at all.

 

It could’ve been repurposed, I suppose, but I just don’t see them being able to make that conversation work in any other context, especially because if she dies believing her son is gone, that essentially means Leia is dying without hope. Leia has always been a symbol of hope and I really think it’s important that that part of her legacy is honored (and I think it was in The Rise of Skywalker). You really can’t remove any part of that conversation either for it to have the full emotional impact. I think it was perfect in The Last Jedi, but that’s just my opinion.

I do agree, though, that Leia really didn’t have that much to do in The Last Jedi. I know some people have criticized Holdo’s place in the film when Leia could’ve filled that role, and I get it, but I also feel like if Rian’s goal was to challenge Poe as a character more, it might’ve been difficult to make that work with Leia without her portrayal being criticized the same way Luke’s was. I’m also sure some of it was, unfortunately, Disney’s influence, because it seems clear that they wanted one of the three original characters to be at the forefront of each film in the Sequel Trilogy, and that Poe’s arc in The Last Jedi in particular is setting him up to take on Leia’s role.

I agree entirely. I will say that, based on the script that leaked for Duel of the Fates, I don’t really get how that film was supposed to be her film because she still isn’t really given the weight that Han had in The Force Awakens or Luke had in The Last Jedi. Honestly, I think The Rise of Skywalker nailed it in terms of making it feel like her film with only a few minutes of footage, and for as many things as The Rise of Skywalker could’ve done better, I think there are very few other people that could’ve ended Leia’s story with the love and affection that JJ did.

 

It didn't have to end with that though. Hamill likely would've been willing to shoot more to close it out and such. And the scene ends with Luke saying, "No one's ever really gone." Depending on any other potential reshoots, the movie could've been changed to show that have an effect on Kylo. And depending on how TROS was written, more of a connection to that character could've been filled out.

 

That’s a fair point. Honestly, I guess a lot of this ties into the larger debate over whether or not the same person should’ve overseen all three films. I still don’t really agree with the idea that Rian or JJ tried to retcon one another, but I do think that there were a lot of ideas between the two directors that they tried to execute in what they were given, which created a lot of inconsistencies because Lucasfilm wanted to give them creative control without ever fostering a collaboration that would create a consistent plan for this trilogy. If that were the case, I think things might’ve been different, but I very much got the impression that, when Carrie died, Rian and Lucasfilm had every intent of releasing the film that she had finished when she died rather than completely repurposing the narrative around her.

JJ’s involvement with The Rise of Skywalker wasn’t even announced until a few months before The Last Jedi was released, and I think at that point, Rian already had to make decisions as far as how to proceed with The Last Jedi so that it could be released on time, and if he was concerned about any of that footage of Carrie being cut, I’m sure he would’ve opted to just release it as is.

I know they decided pretty early on to release The Last Jedi as it was always intended to be released rather than alter it in light of Carrie’s passing, but it certainly would’ve been interesting to see how the sequels played out differently if they did restructure that film to give her more weight in The Rise of Skywalker.

 

So what bothers with Leia in TROS is one of the notes that they leave the character on, it's said in the movie that Leia stopped being a Jedi because she sensed the death of her son at the end of her Jedi path. So she have away her saber in the hopes that someone would finish her journey. Rey takes the saber and finishes her and Leia's journey/path.... which leads to the death of her son.

So Leia's story throughout the movies and her legacy ends with her unknowingly setting in motion the events that would kill her son in yet another Skywalker style, self fulfuilling prophecy. Why did JJ and Chris think that this was a good idea ?

 

4 years...

 

Ben solo choice his path and he could have left and abondon a dead Rey but no he choose the jedi path and rejoin his mother in the force. Leia let her fears guide her and let it become adrift with her and her son. Ben as Kylo was always going to be redeemed but like Vader died. It's a tragic story but so is life. The Sykwalker name lives on in Rey. And Ben solo still lives on as aforce ghost.

 

4 years today. Rest in peace, Princess.

#CarrieOnForever