ST Princess/General Leia Organa/Carrie Fisher Discussion Thread

I guess I was the only one who wasn’t surprised by it then, just because Leia’s use of the Force up until The Rise of Skywalker has pretty much always been instinctual. She’s never really been shown to put any effort into it the way most of the “obvious” Force users (Luke, Anakin, etc.) would. When it first happened, there was obviously the shock factor of seeing Leia get blasted into space, but I just felt like there was no way that was the end of her, and when she started floating back toward the ship, it made perfect sense to me. I felt like it was always sort of obvious that she was strong in the Force, she just chose not to follow the path Luke did (even without the knowledge that we acquire about that in The Rise of Skywalker). But that was just my interpretation.

As much as I love the Sequel Trilogy, I do agree that Kylo’s redemption arc should’ve been mapped out a bit more carefully, considering it’s supposedly one of the few things that were somewhat planned from the beginning. I think the idea of Leia being the only one capable of redeeming Kylo was there from the beginning and I love it, because I’ve always firmly believed she was the only one that could turn him back to the light. I get the approach the novel was trying to take, but I feel like it could’ve been handled. I don’t think Leia needed to die in order to bring Ben back. I realize that was pretty much the best option considering what they had to work with for her character in this film, and I think her death provides the story with some much needed emotional weight that still allows her to be at the forefront of it. But if Kylo was always set to be redeemed, they shouldn’t have worked so hard to make sure all three original heroes’ deaths were his fault, because that created issues in and of itself (and personally, I think his story would’ve had a slightly happier ending if it weren’t for the fact that so many fans couldn’t see him as anything more than Han, Luke and Leia’s murderer).

 

Why does death = emotional weight? I’m serious. I’m tired of that being the equation. You can’t write a story without killing characters, you should get out of the business. It’s a cheap trick (and not the band either, although I’m not a fan of them either).

Well, exactly. Why the creatives didn’t get that will remain a mystery to me.

 

A death doesn't have emotional weight just for occurring. The narrative has to grant it emotional weight by writing it in a way where it significantly matters. If Kylo got a happy ending, that would undermine any sense of emotional weight of the deaths of Han, Luke and Leia. You can't reward the murderer of the OT3 without killing their deaths as emotionally significant in the story.

 

None of it bothers me because the sequel trilogy was such a slap dash of unplanned cohesiveness. So the deaths of the big three are more now, Oh that’s a nice moment for Ford, happy for him, etc.

Meaning I can still watch SW, Empire and Return now without even thinking aww, but gee whiz Han and Leia have a kid who is horrible, so forth. Just as I am a strong critic of the prequels, they were never in the mind when watching the classic films. Like when Leia mentions, “years ago you fought with my father in the Clone Wars..” I still have the same wonderment of what the Clone Wars were.

 

I agree about death not equating to emotional weight, but that doesn’t mean that a character death can’t have emotional weight. All I’m suggesting is that Leia’s death kind of seemed inevitable, so I was pleased that, if it had to happen, it was at least done in a way where it did offer a significant emotional impact and genuinely affected the narrative. (That being said, I think one of the Sequel Trilogy’s biggest flaws is that it could’ve expanded on Leia and Ben’s relationship and chose not to, leaving The Rise of Skywalker to attempt to give them some closure even though there was practically nothing to work with because Carrie wasn’t around to film new material.)

I think the execution of Leia’s death could’ve been much better, because even now, it just feels like the way her death happens on screen warrants a lot of questions that could’ve and should’ve been cleared up, and Maz’s cheap line — “Leia knows what must be done, Artoo; to reach her son now, it will take all the strength she has left” — doesn’t cut it. I would’ve been fine if they used Maz to offer some additional exposition there, but instead they just had her state the obvious. I had assumed Leia was using the last of her strength to reach out to Ben, but I feel like if it had been communicated a bit better, the emotional impact would’ve been heightened a bit. So, it was far from a perfect exit, but as far as Leia being the one to redeem Kylo and ultimately being the catalyst to restoring balance, I did like that. I do genuinely feel like they did everything they could to give Leia a meaningful role in the film, but obviously that’s largely affected by the Carrie footage they had to work with.

 

I'm not even sure if Kylo's redemption was always the plan, because if we go by CT's script, he buckled down on Kylo going evil and not having any interaction with Leia, except a last minute "be good, Ben" moment, very similar to what happened in TROS. Except Leia survived that and Kylo was therefore not responsible for her death.

Yup. This is why, whatever issues I have with TROS, Kylo's death is not one of them. Ben Solo was never going to get a happily ever after simply because he was responsible for all three of the OT3's deaths in some way. The most he could do is redeem himself in the eyes of the Force, and he did that by bringing Rey back and sacrificing his own life. Villains don't get happily ever afters.

 

This is a random thought I’ve had, but what do you guys think is the likelihood of Claudia Grey eventually writing a novel about Leia’s time training as a Jedi, and would you be here for it? I loved Bloodline and I’m really enjoying Princess of Alderaan so far. I had the opportunity to meet Claudia at Celebration last year and I told her that her understanding of the character is something that’s really unmatched by anyone other than Carrie herself. I really think she’s done an incredible job at writing Leia and expanding on her history, and I’d DIE for her to write a novel that details her Jedi training.

 

It might not resolve the issues some people have with the story, but I think it's worth pointing out that Luke and Leia both had motives other than clearing the air with Ben for what they did. Luke was saving the resistance as well as confronting his former student and nephew. Leia was not only making a last bid to save her son, she was saving Rey too.

 

I admit I could be overanalyzing the scene but technically Rey killed Leia. And this is what pulls her out of her descent to the dark side.

 

Interesting take. I wouldn't put it that way, but your angle on it is interesting.

 

I may be misremembering the scene but doesn’t Leia’s arm go limp when Rey stabs Kylo and this moment is when Rey sense Leia’s death? She basically landed the killing blow as Leia and Ben are “one” from this point on in the movie. Leia’s body does not disappear until Ben dies and then she takes him with her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I have a similar interpretation about that. Leia does not become one with the Force until Ben Solo dies. There are all sorts of interesting headcanon possibilities here.

 

I don't believe anyone killed Leia (and I feel the same about Luke), she willed herself into the spirit realm of the Force, from there, she had the impact she desired on not only Ben & Rey, but the fall of the Emperor. I believe the final confrontations of ROS transpired by Leia's design - she had foreseen a number of events involving her son, and knew she was the catalyst in shaping his destiny. Her involvement impacted Rey and the larger universe as well, and from my perspective, it was Leia that brought balance in this final chapter.

 

Good old Dave Filoni talks off Leia and how she is the Obi wan of this trilogy.

 

So when / when did Carrie's line of "Ben... Ben" come from? I know her scenes are sourced from TFA, although her death has to be a body double, but I don't know if her "Ben" line would have been recorded from TFA - his name is only mentioned by Han in their one scene together - maybe dialogue recorded for TLJ when Kylo was attacking the Raddius and she had her connection with him?

 

That call sheet from years ago could be a candidate.

So, maybe from this scene, if it was filmed. Earlier in the film Leia says 'Rey, never be afraid of who you are' to Rey.

They hug, and we don't see Fisher's face. Where did 'never be afraid of who you are' come from?

So maybe it was once 'Ben, never be afraid of who you are' and then they cut 'Ben' and used the other part with Rey.

In TROS, dark Rey says 'don't be afraid of who you are' and then she faces Kylo: 'look at yourself. You wanted to prove my mother that you were a jedi but you've proven something else. You can't go back to her now, like I can't'

 

Looking back on the trilogy, it really bothers me that Leia was the last Jedi. It kind of invalidates the urgent search for Luke in TFA and his sacrifice in TLJ.

 

I like it, as it gives context to that she is the other Skywalker. She becomes the jedi legacy as Yoda foretold. Luke was just a red herring.

 

That's my favourite line of Kylo's. His deadpan delivery in contrast with Rey's increasingly histrionic state always cracks me up. His deliberate needling of her and winding her up constantly is the best thing about the ST.

 

Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Seems Leia as jedi has been in talks for years and would be Rey's mentor and wonder how large of her jedi status would off been. Filoni approved off this.

 

'What happens with Leia' is Rey, the OT 'another' understood as the ST 'only hope'. Or the plan B understood as the plan A (the jedi protagonist), with the plan A having been lost time ago. In that sense, Kylo Ren is Dark Luke.

What about Rey and Leia? Abrams called Rey Cinderella once, and that film has in it the classic trope of the fairy godmother, who is some kind of magic female mentor - someone who acts as a parent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy_godmother

There's another element:

Leia is not dressed as a general at the end of TFA when she sends Rey to Luke; but more as royalty. Why?
Snoke was wrong (Luke) but right (Rey) in TLJ. 'Skywalker, I assumed, wrongly'.
Was Palpatine right and right in TROS when he said: 'the princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plan'? Two princesses, two families? Is that what Leia's ring is about?

 

That's a great way of looking at it. I just watched ROTJ this past weekend and never thought of that, also add that into A Certain Point of View's Yoda chapter.....I forget the title of the story.