Senate Problems with perceptions of masculinity

Best way to be manly and it really is easy honestly - don’t give two Bantha poos about what anyone thinks about “masculinity” and completely ignore this made up social justice warrior nonsense “toxic masculinity.” Just be yourself, be a good person, by which I mean treat everyone else with respect and dignity, don’t resort to violence except as a last resort, and you honestly won’t have to worry about what is or isn’t masculine. You’ll be “the man” simply by living your life on your terms.

I don’t care if someone wants to label this or that, I’m not interested in anyone else’s opinion of how a man should be, I’m only interested in mine and being the best I can be.

 

Yeah, but can you bench 250 pounds, bro?

 

That's all anyone will ask of you. If you can do that, then you're not guilty of toxic masculinity.

And yet, what is "social justice warrior" if not a label?

 

Bowen's talking points really speak volumes about how much respect and dignity he treats other people with.

 

Toxic masculinity and toxic femininity have more in common than most people think. I cannot use the f-word on here. But there are bad bois and bad girls with the f-word before that word. I think that sums it up. heh.

 

That is it in a nutshell.

 

My old high school football coach would scream at people who talk about bench press btw. Said it was only good for picking yourself up after the person who squats a fridge runs you over. He isn't wrong about how much more important squats/deadlifts are in terms of core strength compare to bench which is mostly for beach muscles.

Sorry off topic.

 

I personally believe the INCELs need to be declared a terrorist organization. Or at least extremists who threaten the lives of innocents. Why can't we apply hate crimes laws to defend the oppressed? Ugh.

 

It's their own damn fault they can't get laid.

 

Important interview.

 

Probably yes. After all, Jesus is referred to in the bible as "the carpenter", and carpentry in the 1st century was demanding physical labor, because no power tools. Logical conclusion - Jesus was ripped.

 

It's my understanding that the original Greek referred to Joseph and Jesus as construction workers, or artisans. They specialized in carpentry and other things in Galilee. Of course, I got this second-hand. I would like it if the mythical Jesus were the role model for evangelical Christians. Instead, they act like the Pharisees who killed Jesus. There is a way that Christians could actually be conservative and still not protest gay rights or abortion. But Christianity has become a detestable religion that stands idly by as white nationalists, misogynists, and the like ruin the country. Some religion. I would have no problem with its liberal versions. But as it is, many pastors like Falwell Jr. and that idiot in Dallas support toxic masculinity. Why not? Most pastors are toxic themselves. They even encourage female pastors to be demure. It's sick.

 

I have complicated feelings about this sentiment. But first off, I'm going to preface what I have to say about it with an important statement; In no way do I condone incels, the violent fantasies that they engage in nor any form of terrorist action. Anybody who partakes in terrorism is responsible for their own actions, and I have no empathy towards anyone who would go out and kill someone, whatever their reasons may be. Please do not conflate my empathy for the demographics who fall afoul of a vile, extremist mindset with empathy for the vile, extremist mindset itself. I can't stress this point enough; Once someone starts talking and acting like an incel, that's where my empathy for them ceases to exist entirely.

With that out of the way, I don't believe that we as a society are fair towards lonely, frustrated young men. And that's what incels really are, lonely, not "involuntarily celibate." There's basically no such thing as involuntarily celibate. If incels were just after sex, they'd try hiring prostitutes. What incels crave, despite what their movement claim, is company and affection. The problem is that they don't know how to obtain it, and in some cases are unwilling to take the steps towards obtaining it.

Now, many of these men are aware that they have some kind of flaw. Contrapoints has a really good video that breaks down how young men fall trap to the incel movement, which I'll embed below.



Essentially, incels are men who believe that society rejects them because of their looks, disability or mental acuity. And there's actually a degree of truth to that world view. As a society, we aren't very good at providing young men with help towards self improvement. Instead we have a culture of criticising men who do, they're seen as weak and pathetic. For example, this is considered a major factor in why substance addiction and homelessness is more prevalent in men. As boys, men in western society are raised to help themselves, whereas empathy is reserved for the world of women.

This is where the notion of toxic masculinity in wider society starts to seep into the conversation about the incel movement. It's no coincidence that incelibacy is pretty much strictly a male mindset. But it's not because men are inherently more horny or violent, anyone who has been witness to a drunken bachelorette party in Manchester can attest to that fact. It's because women are socially more likely to reach out and provide each other help with their problems. If we stopped propagating the idea that empathy and personal improvement were unmanly, the "incel" identity would be far less attractive to frustrated social outcasts. Society also needs to be better at providing tools for certain demographics to better themselves, like those on the autism spectrum, a demographic of people that I know from personal experience is prone to involuntary social isolation and an inability to understand what needs to be done to better themselves.

If we removed the barriers to self-improvement, tackled the oddly male-oriented conflation between intimate relationships and sex and also removed the social stigma that surrounds being young and single, then I'd be more comfortable with saying "It's your own fault for not being able to get laid," as we would only be leaving those truly unwilling to work on themselves to take on the sad, pathetic title of incel.

tl;dr: Toxic masculinity within wider society is just as much to blame for the incel movement as is the flaws of the individual person who identifies with it.

 

This is a fun thing to say if you've gotten your penis wet twice and can feel superior to others for it, but claiming it's incels fault that they can't get laid is you perpetuating toxic masculinity because 1) it implies that getting laid makes men superior to other men and is something men should be aspiring for and b) it's largely unhelpful akin to the "dude just stop being poor lmao."

 

Anakinfan is correct. Those who just want to have conquests are often those who take advantage of people. There is nothing wrong with mature lust in that it entails mature individuals consenting to everything. But toxic masculinity throws that out the window. Society is grappling with toxic masculinity due to rising rates of domestic violence in this country that need to be lowered. Toxic femininity does exist, but I think what people fail to grasp is that women are, typically, misandrist or violent IN REACTION to violence against them. Two wrongs don't make a right, but it is notable that toxic masculinity is often the cause.

 

I see incels are being discussed. I recently became familiar with what "incel" even means. It seems to me the "incel community" consists of a lot of people with psychological health issues. That said, overall it seems many? most? incels feel this entitlement to sex with women. (I'm assuming most incels are straight males...) It's like this attitude of she'll "put out" for all these other guys but not for me because I was born with the wrong bone structure and I'm not tall enough, but I have a right for her to "put out" for me too! It's not fair. How can you be on the council and not be a master? It's insulting!

 

This is why there's such a stigma against mental illness. People like you automatically assume that ***holes are mentally ill. It's not helpful. Don't be ignorant.

 

I'm sorry. But as a mentally ill person myself I feel like I have more than a personal interest in the stigma of mental illness. If you see the sort of psychological self-flagellation, learned helplessness, low self-esteem, poor coping mechanisms, etc. of this "community" it's clear these aren't psychologically healthy/happy individuals. I think it's more a stigma to assume that it's either you are severely mentally ill or completely psychologically healthy, and if anyone who is mentally ill (or psychologically unhealthy) treats others badly we can't call them psychologically unhealthy because they don't have a severe disorder like schizophrenia and it's too stigmatizing to say yes, you are psychologically unhealthy *and* you are an *******.

 

O-kay...I've never gotten any either (didn't think it needed to be shared up until now though), but I'm not crying about it, certainly not blaming women for it.

Sure, I'd have sympathy for them...up until the point where they start blaming other people for their problems, indulging in conspiracy theories, and filling their heads with alt-right poison.

 

As a mentally ill person, myself, I stand by my statement. Stop making assumptions.

 

I'm not making assumptions. I don't assume anything about you. Stop making assumptions. If you think people who spend all day on the internet complaining about how they are doomed to die alone and miserable and no one will ever love them and maybe they should just eat lead are psychologically healthy, I think you have an interesting definition of psychologically healthy.

I absolutely disagree with your statement, IOW. I don't perceive it as you can only say people who seem like they are good people are psychologically unhealthy because otherwise it stigmatizes the mentally ill! I think over all society is very accepting of just how psychologically unhealthy much of the population. Healthy people don't whine all day about being ugly and so no one could ever date them.

 

I never said anybody was psychologically healthy. I said it's not helpful to assume that ***holes are mentally ill.

 

Did you notice my arguments about why they are psychologically unhealthy? It's not I noticed they are ********, therefore I assumed they are mentally ill. It's I noticed they are not psychologically healthy because they spend all day whining about how much they hate themselves. That's something you can get help for by going to counseling because it's psychologically unhealthy and counseling can help with that. Maybe anti-depressants can too. If they were psychologically HEALTHY and jerks they would be busy living life as raging jerks not hiding in a dark corner online crying all day.

 

My point is, you're making assumptions and blanket statements. Stop it.