Senate Problems with perceptions of masculinity

It is trivial, but it's just an example. I see a lot of things that bother me, but it's just the example that came to mind. It's like seeing my wife carry a heavy suitcase or heavy groceries. I offer to do it or take it out of her hands. She doesn't fight me on it and says thank you.

 

I didn't even realize "a man is supposed to pump gas for a woman" was any kind of societal expectation... I'd wager a lot of the people you see don't either. They probably just have the person on the side with the gas cap do it...

 

Generally I think it's courteous for a man to step aside on the sidewalk to let a woman pass. But then I also think it's only decent if the woman says "thank you". Well, I do the former often enough, but the latter rarely happens. That doesn't make me angry but I do find it curious. It almost feels like the opposite of toxic masculinity.

However I can't help but think that women in general are just cautious towards strange men in the street. And I think that is the result of toxic masculinity. So thanks guys!

 

Typically the driver pumps the gas, but I always get out and do it for my wife, especially if it's the winter and very cold. I'd rather be cold than have her be cold.

 

The expectation is maybe that a man should relieve a woman of any dirty work that he could as easily accomplish. It's more acceptable for males to be greasy and wearing gasoline cologne than females.

edit: @TiniTinyTony Don't guys tend to have higher blood pressure, meaning higher tolerance for cold?

 

The expectation from certain wives may be that they expect their husband to do the "masculine" car related things: pump gas, change tire, change wipers, check oil, check tire pressure/fill with air, fill wiper fluid, etc.

As for tolerance for cold, men might have a higher tolerance, but clothing options should make that a non-issue i.e. coats, hats, gloves, etc.

 

Then surely the flipside is it's fair for the "feminine" related things like laundry. I think it's a load of tosh....or I'm getting really suckered on the laundry front.

 

Personally, cooking and cleaning which may be labeled at feminine activities, are activities I don't mind doing.

 

Well, that doesn't have much to do with it what I posted.

But okay.

The women you see pumping gas are performing an activity they may not mind doing.

 

Yes. If my wife and I were out and got a flat tire, I'd change it, because it would be easier and quicker. But if she was alone, she wouldn't exactly be sitting their stranded, because she can do it.

 

I mowed the yard last week. Took me two and a half hours cuz the area by the back fence was so overgrown. The moist, shredded grass dyed my tennis shoes green.

I enjoyed it for the most part. When you get into a rhythm mowing can be a form of meditation that numbs your senses and empties your mind. Also, you win cool points with everyone else.

 

I'm glad that you and your wife have come to a positive understanding of these things. There's nothing wrong with that. The only time things get dicey is when someone starts to make assumptions about what a person should or shouldn't be doing based on their sex alone. I mean, yes, statistically, men are stronger than women, so it should be easier for a man to carry something heavy than it is for a woman. That still doesn't mean that you want to assume that a woman carrying something heavy is necessarily out of her depth. Likewise, statistically, women are trained from preschool age to do more indoor-type household chores than men are. Logically then, you might assume that women are better at these things. And maybe they are. Many men still find it insulting when women assume that they're morons around the house, and that the world will fall apart if a man is home alone for a few days. So basically, if a guy doesn't like to be given "helpful" instructions about how to run his own washing machine, or how to avoid abandoning his own children at their after-school activities, he shouldn't be too quick to rush to the "aid" of a woman of a weighty sack of groceries. It's never a bad idea to assume competence, and leave people alone until or unless they ask for help.

EDIT: FWIW, if I see someone who really appears to be struggling, I ask them if I can help them. Generally they're fine with it, but sometimes they're like "I got it." If they decline help, I don't hover or ask again. I leave them alone. I used to work with people who have disabilities, and I learned that there.

 

I think its the opposite , when I'm in town and even if its the middle of winter I'm always amazed at the girls coming out of bars in the flimsiest of outfits when I've got like 3 layers and a big coat on .

 

Robert Louis Stevenson made a great statement: "Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant." We men can be so impatient. Our culture has taught us that we don't have to wait for anything. Get it cheap and get it now! But the things that have eternal value, the truly valuable things, require patience and diligence to acquire. Sow the good seeds of nobility today, knowing that the rich fruit of your labors may be harvested by someone else long after you are gone. Does that seem unfair? Well then answer this question: What are you reaping today that is the product of someone else's sowing? Think about it.
Steve Sabol
Knights of the 21st Century

 

I've always pumped my own gas, and would feel weird sitting in my car while somebody else did it. When I pump gas, I don't feel like I'm doing some great masculine thing... I'm just filling my car with gas. Also, I'm not fragile... I can deal with the cold.

 

Group-think?

 

The only place I could get 93 octane gas for my Mustang today was a full-service station, so I had to let some pimply-faced kid pump the gas for me. So emasculating! But he said my car was pretty cool, so that was a little stroke to my fragile male ego.

 

In New Jersey, you're not allowed to pump your own gas so it's a non issue there.

 

A lot of these 'male traits' are rooted in post-medieval religious thinking which is eroding away as we speak. So I think it's a self-correcting 'we've fixed the glitch' kind of deal. Yes, not all men are going to change over night, but evolution's a slow process. Personal anecdote, but I wasn't raised in a 'be a man' household. Yes, there was the occasional chiding from other guys I knew, but overall me and my brother were free to develop however we wished. Of course that hasn't stopped my brother from adopting some of these attitudes, but he never got it from my father or my mother--pre-Fox News.

I will freely discuss with anyone who wishes to the trials and tribulations of living with a mental disorder, I'm not afraid to cry around people even if it makes me look sappy, and I think being 'macho' is a losing battle. Mostly because it's a peer pressure thing rather than something outside of us that we can achieve. We do it to save face.

Bill Burr explains this better (NSFW language warning). And it's not even just that you'll be seen as 'gay', but rather anything any of your friends choose to pick on. Whether you're not a man, you're a homosexual, or [insert anything else here].

 

Microsoft founder Bill Gates once mused, "Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summers off and very few employers are interested in helping you find yourself." I love the sarcasm is those words and they ring with truth. As we begin our day, let's do so with a determination to give our employer the best effort we possibly can. Some men work harder at getting out of work than actually doing the work they are trying to avoid. Real men have a noble work ethic. "Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men" (Colossians 3:23). Strength and honor!
Steve Sabol
Knights of the 21st Century

 

Here's some text from the intro to the "Manhood, Now" podcast I mentioned on page 1...I would be very interested to hear from male posters here about the extent to which any of this resonates/doesn't resonate with them (see bolded items below):

 

^ Meh. I guess I'm aware of such things in our society, but they don't seem to affect me, not so I notice anyway. I'm pretty comfortable with who and what I am and where I'm going, so those kinds of pressures don't bother me.

 

Question: What if your employer is a total asshat and you're stuck in a dead-end job? Do we still work hard or just bathe ourselves in the millions that we dream we'll someday have? Asking for a friend.

In all seriousness, this religious work ethic is a losing battle in today's world. Doesn't matter how hard you work or whatnot. Just matters about the bottom line. Of course Bill Gates would say this crap. When's the last time he actually had to work? And no, 'business meetings' don't count as work. I'd rather use a Buckminster Fuller quote as opposed to any sort of religious nonsense.

Most jobs these days are useless inventions to create busy work--not life fulfilling at all.