Qui-Gon and Dooku. How close where they ?

Do you think that Qui-Gon would have followed Dooku as Dooku suggested to Obi-Won ? I think he may have. According to Obi he had defied the counsel many times. What do you think.

I got this idea from a post by Pelranius.

 

No, I don't think Qui-Gon would have followed Dooku. If you read "Legacy of the Jedi," you'll fine that Qui-Gon and Dooku really weren't very close at all, as far as master-padawan relationships go.

 

If one goes just by the movies, which one should do when asking about somethiing from the movies then I think yes to be honest. Now if one factors in the EU, which one doesn't need nor has to read in order to understand the movies and follow them then its arguable that he might now. I prefer to follow the movies and only the movies when it comes to questions like this.

 

It all comes down to if Qui-Gon thought Dooku was still part of the light. If he thought he still part of the light, he might agree to join Dooku to try to help reform the Jedi order, and get rid of the Sith that Dooku claimed was within their midst.

However if Qui-Gon thought him to be a Dark Jedi, on the other hand he probably wouldn't have joined him.

 

I think that they were pretty close. The bond between the Padawan and Master is great. However, I doubt that he would follow him, although he may have sympathized with Dooku.

 

How close were they, you ask? See, this is one of those rare moments when I wish I read slash. Then I could be all clever and post a link to some Quiggy/Dookie (or whatever fifteen year old girls call it).

 

While both were mavericks in many respects, Qui-Gon would never have left the order. Similarly, while both are idealists, I think Qui-Gon would be appalled at many of the acts of terror committed by the Separatists in Dooku's name. While he would probably agree that some of the Separatists' grievances are valid, he would work to reform the current existing government rather than simply work to overthrow it.

 

One would have to think when Dooku would have actually approached Qui-gon. I would think around the time Anakin came into the picture and after the battle of Naboo. Then again if Qui-gon hadn't have died Dooku might not have turned. Wasn't it the death of Qui-gon the reason that drove him to actually leave? I'm not sure if that is EU based or if that was said by Lucas.

 

Neostar9

This is not a movie v. EU question. Please do not ruin this thread by making it that way. And by the way. What is said in the EU is said by Lucas.


OK. I agree with Val. If Dooku is truely dark I don't think Qui-Gon would have followed him. But If he is still on the Light side ( Dooku ) Qui-Gon may have very well followed him.

Qui-gon has had a history of going against the council. Remember when Obi pleads with Qui-Gon. "Please do not defy the council again." and Qui-Gon said " I will do what I must."?

And when Yoda was confering the degree of knight on Obi and says that " I feel Qui-Gons defiances in you, That you do not need. " before giving his consent to letting Obi train Anakin.

Qui-Gon had it in him to see his own way. Very much like Dooku. It is not hard to see him leaveing the order to join Dooku. Obi-Wan would have never left though.




Is it just me or has anyone else noticed alot of movies guys over here? Don't they have their own board ?

 

I am not trying to ruin anything. Its just that when one is asking things about the movie things like this come up when you try to understand it. Since the movies don't require you to have read anything in the EU its more likely the answer would be found based on what is seen and said in the movies alone. As Lucas intended. The movies and the EU paint different pictures. You get one from the movies alone and you get a different one when you bring in the EU to try and reason things out. Lucas not concerning himself to much with the EU and DR and authors working on guidelines handed down to them and Lucas not going over the detail of the novels, the different directions happen quite often.

Don't mistake me bringing up the movies as a person that hates the EU. Far from it I really enjoy the EU and its only the NJO that I hate EU wise. This is a Lit forum yes but this is also a question that directly relates to the movie as well. In all my time here on these forum, the Lit has been my main hang out area. I've posted maybe a total of 5 times in the movies forums and only recently have started to post in the Amphitheatre. Don't try to make this as if I'm some movie only, EU hating person.

 

Tips cap to Neostar9.

The EU is the salt and pepper of SW. Without it it wouldn't be as good.

Do you see Qui-Gon joining Dooku ? In the movie we don't know enough about Qui-Gon to say Dooku is right or wrong. The back story in the EU is what makes this kind of question fun to debate,and it makes SW more enjoyable. For me anyway.

So, is Dooku right in saying Qui-Gon joins him or not. Answer it just for fun.

 

If one goes by the movies, then one also factors in the movie novelizations. And in factoring in the novelizations, then I find we come to Valiento's answer.

 

I am not trying to ruin anything. Its just that when one is asking things about the movie things like this come up when you try to understand it. Since the movies don't require you to have read anything in the EU its more likely the answer would be found based on what is seen and said in the movies alone

Exept it can't be. You can't tell if Tyranus was lying about how close they were or not. Obi Wan knew him just as well and said that Qui Gon would never join Tyranus. Who do you believe?

Going by the movies,I think it would depend on whether or not Qui Gon thought Tyranus was of the light. If he knew he was a Dark Sider, he would never join him.
Considering how introspective Qui gon was, I doubt he would have joined the Dark Lord no matter what he claimed in AotCs.

 

It all comes down to if Qui-Gon thought Dooku was still part of the light. If he thought he still part of the light, he might agree to join Dooku to try to help reform the Jedi order, and get rid of the Sith that Dooku claimed was within their midst.

However if Qui-Gon thought him to be a Dark Jedi, on the other hand he probably wouldn't have joined him.

I have to believe that Qui-Gon would have never followed Dooku....
Dooku was just playing on the emotions of Obi-Wan in EpII, and get him to join the 'Darkside'
Qui-Gon it just seemed to have some insight into where things were headed and believed in the prophecy...

 

I think it would be hard to tell how close they were from one documentation of their relationship in LOTJ.

Anakain and Obi-Wan seem to argue all the time, but their relationship remains strong and close.

 

I wonder how exactly Sidious turned Dooku?

It depends on how disillusioned Qui Gon was or would have become with the Republic. If things had gone downhill enough, it could have become entirely possible (and with Palps pulling some strings behind the scenes, that's not so unlikely)

 

I wonder how exactly Sidious turned Dooku?

Well, we know that it was likely because of Dooku's study of the Sith Holocron.

 

How close were they?

Depends on where they were standing!

But seriously, folks, Legacy of the Jedi establishes that Dooku as an aloof, impersonal master to Qui-gon's warm, friendly apprentice.

I view Dooku's "I only wish he were here" line as being more baiting Obi-Wan than actual sentimentalism or heart-felt emotion.

Dooku's disenfranchisement and dissatisfaction with the Republic and the Jedi is difficult to separate from his arrogance and lust for power. Those, among other characteristics led Dooku to the Dark Side and into Sidious' attention.

 

while JediMasterEd is correct in assessing Dooku's and Qui-gon's personalities in their master-apprentice relationship, it is quite possible that their relationship changed as Qui-Gon became a Knight and later, a Master. Dooku's aloofness might have stemmed from some desire to prent Qui-Gon from becoming too attached to him, and once they were apart, they might have re-started their relationship as equals and not as teacher-student.

 

I haven't read LotJ, but my impression all along has been that Dooku genuinely believes that he's doing the right thing for the galaxy -- and that he may very well be doing the right thing. I think Qui-Gon would have been beside him all the way.

-Paul

 

I still feel if Quigon were alive, Dooku would have approached him much earlier then during the events of ATOC so Dooku being a Sith wouldn't have been known or factor when it came to to Quigon joining or not joining him.

 

But the question still remains as to whether Dooku would even be a Sith if Qui-Gon still lived. After all, what if Qui-Gon's survival meant that Darth Maul managed to escape? Also, perhaps Dooku would not have left the order and just became a jedi who dabbled too much in the Dark Side. Furthermore, if Qui-Gon survived, he would be engaged in the training of Anakin Skywalker, so he would have been tied to the Jedi Order. Given Qui-Gon's commitment to bringing balance to the Force, I suspect that he would be seeking to raise Anakin in a stable environment. Indeed, Qui-Gon's survival would no doubt greatly alter the turn of events surrounding AotC. In this case, I think it would be more beneficial for Dooku to approach Anakin, as he would have an in with the young Padawan as the master of his master. Who knows? It might be an interesting Infinities story to explore after the prequel trilogy finishes up.

 

Wasn't it the death of Qui-gon the reason that drove him to actually leave? I'm not sure if that is EU based or if that was said by Lucas.

Yes, the AotC novel says that Qui-gon's death was the last straw for Dooku. There was a whole scene that was going to be in the movie giving us a background on Dooku, but was deleted, and now only present in the Book. So I would say thats from GL.

As for wether or not QuiGon would have joined dooku really depends on Dooku being a Dark Lord. Though I wouldn't say that Qui-Gon would give him a flat out no if he knew Dooku was a Sith. I see Dooku alot like Qui-gon, and like Quin Vos, Which we see where they have ended up now haven't we?

-Jabba out

 

I don't think the Holocron really had that much of an influence on Dooku, considering how long was the time between when he had it and when he turned. I wonder who could have been Sidious's interim apprentice if Dooku had said no or something?