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Qui-Gon Jinn. Why hate him?

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by ZaraValinor, Sep 4, 2003.

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  1. ZaraValinor

    ZaraValinor Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 31, 2002
    I was just wondering why a greater amount of the authors when writing Qui-Gon obviously have a large distast for his character. I know he was poorly characterized in JA but is there something beyond that?
     
  2. AERYN_SUN

    AERYN_SUN Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2001
    The fact that he overlooked Obi-Wan in the Phantom Menace, and volunteered to take Anakin as his Padawan. That might be a reason why authors hate him.

    ~aeryn
     
  3. ZaraValinor

    ZaraValinor Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 31, 2002
    I always saw that as an understanding that Obi-Wan was ready to move on and the need to make sure the Chosen One was trained, not something that was meant to hurt.
     
  4. craigrr

    craigrr Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 1999
    This is just a theory, but I think me may actually be Anakin's father. He & Shmi met up somehow, things happened and he being a Jedi, somehow erased the event from her memory like Kyp Durron did to Qui Xux. For what ever reason, the whole "Force conception" just seems a little hokey. But that's just me. It's not really something I've ever dwelt on.

    Personally, I've never seen any reason to hate him. I've always liked Qui-Gonn mainly because of his maverick attitude.
     
  5. ZaraValinor

    ZaraValinor Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 31, 2002
    I like Qui-Gon, I like Obi-Wan, and I like Anakin, they're all really interesting characters. I just wondered why Qui-Gon was made out to be the bad guy so often.
     
  6. -JediKnight-

    -JediKnight- Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Qui-Gon Is Awesome! I don't know why writers dis him so often.

    BTW: Cool theory craigrr !


    -JK-
     
  7. PadawanRoo

    PadawanRoo Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2003
    I think a lot of this comes from authors who enjoy writing Obi-Wan as whiny, emotionally needy, and occasionally suicidal.

    They villainize Qui-Gon for being mean to their 'poor, innocent' Ob-Wan. Maybe it's just me, but I don't read them that way. I mean, I can certainly understand exploring Obi-Wan's feeling after what happened in the council chamber during EP I. I can see him feeling very upset and betrayed. But many stories that portray Qui-Gon in a bad light do so because he doesn't shower his apprentice with praise.

    I really like Qui-Gon, and enjoy writing him. He is the embodiment of what it is to be a grey Jedi.

    As far as JA, pretty much everyone's badly characterized in JA. Have to agree with CYN here- good concept, bad execution of said concept. I own all but three of them, becuase for reason even The Lady herself doesn't know, I kept holding out for the writing to get better.
     
  8. Jedi_Knight150

    Jedi_Knight150 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2002
    I'm working on three fics right now (none of which have been posted yet) and in all three I portray Qui-Gon as a very understanding and compassionate person. I'm not saying I don't like reading him portrayed as a buckethead though. it can get interesting.
     
  9. craigrr

    craigrr Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 1999
    To me, Qui-Gon always kind of seemed like a "tough love" kind of guy. He seems gruff and indifferent, yet he is really caring & understanding. He makes his padawan work and learn rather than just giving them the knowledge.
     
  10. LuvEwan

    LuvEwan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 24, 2002
    I think a lot of this comes from authors who enjoy writing Obi-Wan as whiny, emotionally needy, and occasionally suicidal.

    Hm. I never noticed him being portrayed as 'whiny', but maybe that's just a difference in perception. *shrugs**

    There might be a combination of factors as to why so many dislike Qui-Gon. There's always the way he treated Obi-Wan throughout Ep.1 (with a few exceptions). I don't think that Obi-Wan was truly ready. I noticed that when he declares he's prepared for knighthood in the Council chamber, he's doing so out of haste and bitterness. It doesn't help that Qui-Gon proceeds to berate him for voicing his worries about Anakin, overlooking the fact that he wounded his apprentice by announcing his intention to train a boy he hardly knows.

    I also don't believe that he was ready, since the Council corrects Qui-Gon, saying they will decide when pupils are ready for ascension. And Yoda was greatly displeased by the resulting link of Obi-Wan and Anakin.

    As for his character in the JA books, he is so reluctant to take Obi-Wan he destroys much of the boy's self-esteem.. Yet in Ep.1, he's ready to train a boy whose waaaay past the acceptable age for Temple admission and is obviously harboring anger for living in slavery. And in doing so, he again rejects Obi-Wan. Even if Obi-Wan were ready for knighthood, wouldn't it hurt for your current Master to make such a commitment while you're still under his charge? :confused:

    Although the JA books were grievously written and executed, they still remain a source for examples of Qui-Gon's overall demeanor. He doesn't come across, in my opinion, as very warm.

    And if there are many stories out there portraying Qui-Gon as very flawed, there are probably just as many that show him as having more balance. It's all in the way a person views that character based on a number of things.

    If numerous authors portray Obi-Wan in a very good light, you can bet there are authors who are just as enamored with Qui-Gon, and depict him more favorably.
     
  11. PatttyB0123

    PatttyB0123 RSA Latin America star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Well, I do not like how some writers use Qui-Gon is the bad evil man. One time I potrayed Qui-Gon as the cold master, but I did not like. Then I changed him into the nice guy.
    I do not hate Qui-Gon.
     
  12. obaona

    obaona Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2002
    I like the JA books just fine. :p

    I found them to portray Qui-Gon as someone not very demonstrative, who sometimes make mistakes or seems cold, but loves Obi-Wan a great deal. He doesn't hug him, but he does his best to train him and take care of him - that is how he shows his affection. How can one not see caring in the part of book four (I think) where he thinks Obi-Wan has been mind-wiped, and is so distressed he can do nothing but think about it for an hour, cannot plan, even while things need to be done and he knows that is his duty?

    Or how about the way he smiles and jokes with Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan with him, in TPM? Did he hurt Obi-Wan by taking Anakin? Probably. But Obi-Wan never showed any bitterness of it that I saw in the movies. He realizes that Qui-Gon is merely doing what he thinks is right, and he accepts it (or such is my reading of his calmness). Further, if you're going by the JA and that timeline, perhaps Qui-Gon is more willing to take Anakin because of Obi-Wan. Because Obi-Wan, who he once thought would fail, didn't. But authors don't seem to consider that possibility as much as they like to think that Qui-Gon is merely blockheaded. I think authors just like to portray him that way because it creates drama to have blockheaded Qui-Gon and emotionally vulnerable Obi-Wan.

    Okay, rant over. :p

    I like Qui-Gon, anyway. ;)
     
  13. C_o_r_u_s_c_a_n_t

    C_o_r_u_s_c_a_n_t Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Qui-Gon's actually hated by some? :confused: I never knew! I though everyone loved him!

    *goes into a dark corner and cries* :_|

    ;)
     
  14. female_obi_wan

    female_obi_wan Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    I like him. :)


    ^
    |
    |
    |
    (Understatement ;) )
     
  15. Dev_Binks

    Dev_Binks Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2003
    but I think me may actually be Anakin's father
    Somebody else thinks that I'M NOT ALONE. I think that they don't like him cause they see him as a stuffy no fun kinda guy.
     
  16. Cloudreaper

    Cloudreaper Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 2, 1999
    I, too, am somewhat surprised at the hatred for QGJ I've experienced in my recent wanderings into the forums of late. I can only suspect that it's the influence of the JA books (I haven't read them, so I don't know for sure). Back in the days following TPM, Qui-Gon was very liked here, almost revered by some.

    I can't speak for the JA books, but QGJ treatment of Obi-Wan (and his behavior in general) in TPM is far from harsh or cruel or heartless. Some who have had a mentor for a critical activity (for example, drill sergeants to many martial arts teachers to trainers for dangerous jobs) will probably tell you that QGJ might even be a little of a softie at times. Qui-Gon might correct Obi-Wan on a number of occasions, but he does so with a quick, somewhat detached manner that I find better than Obi-Wan's almost taunting manner in which he scolds Anakin ("<blah, blah>, my YOUNG apprentice." "<blah, blah>, my pretty stupid padawan.", etc)

    The only difference between OBK at the point where QGJ thinks he's ready and the council agreeing his ready is his fight with Maul, where the only real thing he's learned is how to regain composure after giving in to rage. That may have been a critical factor, but I think it demonstrates that the either the council is just as wrong about Obi-Wan's readiness as QGJ or Qui-Gon wasn't too far off in his own judgement.

    Qui-Gon knew Anakin's potential and knew he needed to be trained. He was also aware that the council would probably make Jar-Jar an honorary council member before allowing the boy to be trained, so he did what he thought to be his one option: keep the boy close so that even if the council forbade it, he could still do what he could.

    Perhaps people are just associating with OBK better than QGJ (given that one character in one way or another 'survives' all the films while the other dies in the first one he appears in, I can see potentially why) and therefore immediately seek to defend and raise Obi-Wan, even at the cost of those around him. In some ways, whether or not OBK actually feels that way, he's got a crowd of fans willing to complain like Anakin and say, "He's (QGJ) holding poor Obi-Wan back!".
     
  17. ZaraValinor

    ZaraValinor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2002
    I keep seeing Obi-Wan's emotional needs. I don't know, but these are guys. They don't go around thinking, "am I emotionally filled?" I often write older Qui-Gon, since I'm writing a younger Qui-Gon, like my father, very gruff, very distant, but there are certain moments that you just know he loves you. It doesn'thavve to come out in words or anything like that, it comes out in the things he does for you.

    anyway, end diatribe.
     
  18. female_obi_wan

    female_obi_wan Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    You know, at one point I had an idea for a thread...a QGJ thread, where you could put stories and contests and stuff. Call me obsessed or whatever ;) but would anyone actually want one? 'Cos I decided againest starting one because I didn't think there were enough Qui fans around...
     
  19. ZaraValinor

    ZaraValinor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2002
    Sounds cool to me, I was even thinking of something the like.

    I was reading over some more things and I agree with obaona. Qui has his faults just as Obi does, just as anyone does.

    I always thought since he was so connected to the living Force and felt so deeply the plights of others that he kept himself in really tight, thinking that his feelings would be readible (I don't think that's a word) by others. We have those subconscious thoughts.

     
  20. Jane Jinn

    Jane Jinn Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    I'd love a QGJ thread, and a contest sounds great! Go for it, female_obi_wan!

    I don't know about anybody else, but I don't think that being rejected by Qui-Gon Jinn destroyed Obi-Wan's self-esteem, at least not in the first book, The Rising Force. I saw that Obi-Wan was struggling to accept it, and that he was actually winning that struggle! He was becoming more like a Jedi and not acting like a child anymore.

    I love Qui-Gon Jinn, and I like writing him. (I should do it more often, I think.) I especially like to show him as someone who is wise, and who cares quite a lot about things and people, but is sometimes torn between his duty as a Jedi, and his own personal desires. His duty always wins out, though. I don't think he necessarily wanted to train Anakin, but when he saw that nobody else was going to, he spoke up because he knew it was the will of the Force that the boy be trained. And in a way, it was a compliment for Obi-Wan that his master thought he was ready for the trials. The admission just happened to come as a bit of a shock, that's all.

    I'm very distressed whenever I read a story that depicts Qui-Gon as a blockhead or an idiot. I stop reading immediately. But one story that shows an excellent portrayal of Qui-Gon, even if it is AU, is [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=10935143] "Betrayal"[/link] by dianethx. He's warm, he's caring, he's wise, and he follows the will of the Force, even to his own detriment. A thoroughly wonderful picture of a great character.
     
  21. female_obi_wan

    female_obi_wan Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2002
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=13076745&replies=0]Green and Grey and Midnight: A Qui-Gon Thread Thing[/link]

    :D
     
  22. dianethx

    dianethx Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2002
    I'm sorry I wasn't able to chime in earlier since I was away. I, too, really like Qui-Gon as a character. I find him absolutely facinating. In my opinion, the perfect Jedi Knight - perfect in that he has emotions but keeps them under control (for the most part), wonderful flaws that fan fic writers can exploit with abandon and, above all, he is willing to follow the will of the Force even over his own wishes. A great character.

    Now, I know that we would go on endlessly trying to dissect his every movement but I think a lot of the differences among the writers as to whether Qui-Gon is a cold fool or a great Jedi is a matter of perception. One person's smirking smile is another's grimace of pain. Hopefully, we will be able to glean more insight into his character with the new thread. I am up to some challenges...

    And, Jane, I am astonished and deeply honored that you like my fic and my characterization of Qui-Gon so much. As you know, I try to get my characters as close to the movies as possible in the context of the AU. I was thrilled - thank you so much.

    Count me in....
     
  23. JediKlea

    JediKlea Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2002
    I don't think most authors really HATE Qui-Gon, I think its because it honestly is really fun to make him kinda mean, and than a really softie under all that gruffness. I kinda consider it Qui-Gon torture. Ya'know, there's Obi-turture, and thiers QUi-torture, each is protrayed differently.
    I personally love Qui-Gon, I think he's great. But yes, he DID [to Obi-Wan] kinda breach thier apprenceship to volunteer to train Anakin. It took Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon several years to work out all thier differences, for Qui-Gon to warm up his iced-over-from-Xani heart to accept a new padawan. And it hurt Obi-Wan that he opened right up to Anakin. [by than he had healed, so it was alot easier]

    Anyways, great idea for that thread!
     
  24. Lilith Demodae

    Lilith Demodae Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 1999
    For those looking for a serious QGJ fix, there's always qui-gonline.org, home of the QGJDL (Qui-Gon Jinn Discussion List), where there is fanart, fanfic, a few comics and a link to their yahoogroup discussion board.
     
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