Senate "Race" Relations (was "U.S. Society and Black Men")

Oh sorry, then I assumed wrongly. You're right.

 

Save your hysteria, call yourself a Martian for all I care. I don't give a damn about where you're from or the purity of your bloodline. I'm not a conservative, after all.
But trying to disassociate Portugal from the usage of "Hispanic" is ****ing stupid. Your "Some of my best friends are liberals" ******** aside, there are quite a number of Hispanic organizations that explicitly include Portuguese culture as well. Hell, Webster's dictionary defines it as "of or relating to the people, speech or culture of Spain or Spain and Portugal". The ****ing term "Hispanic" derives from the Roman word for the Iberian Peninsula, which Portugal entirely sits.

 

I'll let Portuguese people decide what they are not you. SO you can stick your dictionary PAL. Show me something in Portugal where they consider themselves Hispanic.

 

Sorry blackmyron, gotta side with Starbob here!

 

Yes, I wrote the dictionary. You got me.
Like I said, I'm not a conservative so I don't ****ing care what you call yourself. In actuality, there is a great deal of discussion about what the terms "Hispanic" or "Latino" means, not that you give a damn about actually looking into anything regarding the matter. Did you know that some ethnic groups that you would label as both prefer only one, or neither? Even more shocking, many "American Indians" prefer the term Native Americans.
Keep that in mind for your future comments here, because for someone that freaks out about being labelled, you certainly like labeling others....

 

if Liberals are so unconcerned about labeling people why is Elizabeth Warren doing a DNA search? Who cares what Trump thinks? Why is it so important to her to be labeled a Native American?

 

No one should. We agree on something! And I'll be sure to save that quote from you for the future.

Trump did promise to give a million dollars to charity if she did it, and I'd say that was a good reason. Of course, we all knew he was a ****ing liar, but It's nice to see a blatant example of that.

 

I never said Trump was God and i pray at his alter. I agree with him on some things and I don't on some things.

 

The US used to have the "one drop" rule, which meant that any black ancestry meant you were black.
A lot of it is tied into nonsensical racial theories, plus strong anti-Catholic sentiments.
Hispanics weren't considered as "white" until the 1940 census.

 

My maternal grandmother's grandmother grew up on a reservation (we're talking pre-1900 here) before eloping with a white man. Apparently, she was deathly afraid of anyone knowing she was native. She would hide from strangers, she eventually became a shut-in because she didn't want to be discovered, she even lied on the census (there may have been legitimate reason to do that). These were things my grandmother told me she witnessed and knew of. (what can be confirmed, has been confirmed).

@Darth Guy

What do you know about the time period between, say, 1885 and 1900? Were Native Americans allowed to live outside reservations? Could/would they be forcibly sent back to a reservation if they left? I honestly don't know.

The only reason this is a thing is because Trump referred to Warren as Pocahontas after it was revealed/suggested that she wasn't really Native American, and used that to attack her and take away her credibility. Because she's been attacked for it, there is a need to find some sort of proof of her Native American ancestry as a defense.

This whole thing exists because of Trump's attacks, and because Warren absolutely needs a defense if she's going to run in 2020. If she doesn't have a defense, Trump will continue to attack her for it (which he will anyway, truth be damned), and it will kill any campaign she's involved with, whether it be POTUS or VPOTUS.

 

You had one job.

 

I recall on US Census history that "Indian" [sic] was added in the late 19th century but they would only be counted if they "lived outside tribal customs".

Oh, and Trump just moved the goalposts for Warren, probably after being shown the footage of his million dollar promise- something about only counting a test he gives or some such ****. And he's back on his "Pocahontas " insult kick again.

 

Trump's actual quote was "I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you're an Indian." Not 1/1024 Indian. I'm all for Trump giving $900 (which is 1/1024th of a million) toward the charity she mentioned.

 

yeah, heaven forbid he do something as awful as give a whole million dollars to *gasp* charity. that's what satan wants.

 

Native American tribes don't base it on any DNA testing, actually. It's about cultural heritage, not purity of a bloodline.
Trump made no claims about what defined an "Indian" [sic]; he denied any Native American heritage; and he certainly isn't acting like a victorious person when he:
Denied ever making any bet
Said "Who cares?"
Moved the goalposts and saying he has to personally administer the test.
Meanwhile, a Republican politician is in hot water for falsely claiming Native American heritage and receiving millions in government contracts.
(For those who didn't follow the test result, it had a range from 6 to 10 generations back. Odd that only the minimum result was mentioned... )

 

Correct, and the Cherokee Nation already slammed her for trying to claim their heritage using the DNA test as proof.

Except Trump didn't deny making the bet. He denied saying what was quoted to him. And he didn't move the goalposts... his full quote was this: "I'm going to get one of those little (DNA testing) kits and in the middle of the debate, when she proclaims she's of Indian heritage...," Trump said. "And we will say, 'I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you're an Indian.' "

Good.

 

... and Donald Trump was the one who suggested it, remember? So he's a complete idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about?
.. well, we knew that. But he had to move the goalposts because the original assertion was that she falsely claimed a Native American heritage to gain an advantage in college, which was conclusively disproved.
Warren also said in the announcement that she was fully aware that only Native American tribes can determine membership, and this only demonstrated ancestry.
Is she a member of the Cherokee Nation? Absolutely not. But that wasn't Trump's bet, was it?

He completely denied it, said "Who cares?" And later moved the goalposts by saying he had to administer the test himself.. which you recall she was supposed to test herself.
Odd that he didn't say it proved him right and then move on; It's almost like the results made him look wrong...

 

Given how much he's lied about his personal wealth, maybe that's more than he can afford. "Trump is worth billions ok? Billion. Bi...millions. A lot. A fair bit."

I think it's well within the realms of reason for Americans, especially the white Americans, to scale back the use of the sacred American "well actually" as they prescribe things for others.

I've never met anyone from Portugal or a Portugese-speaking former colony who enjoys having their culture and language mistaken for Spanish. Based on this, if a person from that Portugese speaking culture gives feedback on a matter I'd resist the urge to be Peak American and "well actually" them back and listen.

I mean, you guys do the whole "I'm EuroPrefix-American" despite not having been born to an immigrant parent or being an immigrant yourself; and usually so many generations removed from the mother country it's not funny,. It's a bit of meme globally. "German American here, yep, great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather Klaus mirgrated here in the 16th century and married and had a family and they all married people born in America so I guess you could say I feel pretty strongly connected to my German roots, you know, I like beer and pretzels, and what was that? Oh no I have no idea who my cousins in Germany would be. I think they're in Flanders? Oh maybe Bavaria, or somewhere close by like Cologne? Yeah I've never been."

But Starbob says he's Portugese and not Hispanic and out comes the "well, actually" approach?

If I was going to follow the Euro-Prefix American lead, I'd have to be saying to my daughter "Ik ben je vader, mijn kleine Nederlands prinses". Even though unlike when I grew up she's not going to be hearing Dutch at home.

 

Lusophone is correct, not Hispanic. Anyone trying to call a Portuguese speaker Hispanic is wrong. This is not an American English or cultural thing. It's just people who have little exposure to Portuguese speakers. "Latino" can be correct, though.

 

Like i said, starbob can be whatever he wants to be. My personal views on the matter align with the recommendations of the American Anthropological Association, which is that the entire term "race" is **** anyways. It's a term that is loaded with awful history. In fact, I think most national identity to be ******* anyways, at least as it leads to tribalism and demonization of 'the enemy'.
The problem in America is that there's a group of "true Americans" - self-identified as white (believing the purity of their bloodlines to be paramount), and believing that 'the others' living in America aren't real Americans. And these are the core of Trump voters.
The point of my little anecdote that set starbob off to begin with was that a Trump supporter had his little joke of "Hey, I was born in Puerto Rico, I'm Hispanic! Just kidding, I'm really white." He's spoke about illegals, and Spanish-only speakers, and similar issues that his particular 'joke' grated. And the thing that he is completely unaware of is that his Portuguese mother - whom I've seen via his videophone, saying hello to his co-workers - is exactly the type of person that these Trump supporters despise. She has an accent, she embraces the culture of her birthplace - it's all so unAmerican.
But I think he realized that to some extent. And he's not a bad guy. I haven't really heard any other jokes or comments about Hispanics since then.

You are correct, but good luck seeing any common usage of "Lusophone" in the United States. I suppose if you were going to go by strict definitions, "Latino" should be anyone from Latin America, which would preclude someone from Spain or Portugal. But, the actual usage of the term (and Hispanic, for that matter) is fluid...
Wiki article on the Hispanic-Latino naming dispute.

 

Be nice if Warren donated the other $999,000 .

 

Anyway, this tangent aside... I don't care what Trump says, obviously. He has purely political motivations and he's an idiot.

But I do think Elizabeth Warren's claims were wrong of her, and instead of doubling down and taking a freaking DNA test, she ought to have just apologized for trying to include herself in a marginalized culture that she is not in fact a part of. Again, she's as Native as I am West African. Which is to say, not at all by any significant measure.

I think this actually is a problem because I think it shows an ignorance on her part that I don't like. I would respect her if she'd back off. But this DNA thing made me dislike her instead, because it is clueless.