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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate "Race" Relations (was "U.S. Society and Black Men")

Discussion in 'Community' started by Jedi Merkurian , Aug 11, 2014.

  1. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    “Be less white” is a dumb and stereotypical thing to say, DiAngelo’s book never says anything like that, and Coca Cola should not have included that wording in its training materials.

    The conservatives are wrong on this one though—it is not the equivalent of saying “be less Black” or “be less Asian” nor should it be treated as such, nor is it “racist” because racism requires a power structure against an oppressed group, and there is no power structure against white people.

    “Be less white” does play into the same ridiculous mindset that is “anti-racist means anti-white,” though, just from the opposite end of the spectrum, and “not all white people” does apply as a response to both.

    “Recognize how systemic racism is baked into society and recognize your privilege” would be better, but right wingers would scream about that too.
     
  2. Charmbracelet

    Charmbracelet Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2020

    In my experience, the White people that I have met don't even assign meaning to being White, unless they are trying to contrast themselves against someone who is not visibly White. More attention is put towards ancestry and/or ethnicity than race, especially for those whose parents or grandparents were immigrants. Race is seen as something the rest of "us" do and complain about, which is interesting ( and ironic, if ironic is the proper word to use here) as some of those White people who hold those beliefs suddenly recognize and complain about race whenever a non-White actor is chosen as the live-action portrayer of a character who is White in the source material ex. Zendaya (half-White herself) as MJ**, Candice Patton as Iris West, Halle Bailey as Little Mermaid/Ariel and so on.

    Now, I can't speak for White people, but I would imagine that some White folks feel as though this campaign is associating 'Whiteness' with either 'racism' or 'racial ignorance'. Where I am in the U.S., 'racial ignorance' is not just the province of White people, though some do seem more hesitant to discuss racial issues around people that are not White. My dad has told me that White co-workers will occasionally come up to him at his job saying something about [insert racial group] and we've both concluded that it is because they assume he'll co-sign because of their shared racial status.

    I wonder with campaigns like these whether or not there is a genuine desire to solve the problem, or if they are only intended to make people think that the company cares about the problem. It's easy to tell people to be less racist during a training seminar, but how do they treat Black, Asian, and other employees of color who come forward with stories of discrimination? Do they gaslight them? Do they support them? Fire them? [I'd like to think some of these corporate campaigns have victims/survivors of racist experiences in leadership positions, but then that falls into the other trope of non-White folks doing the bulk of the anti-racist labor which sucks because it's not just our problem. I suppose this seminar/course is designed to alleviate that labor, but, from what little Internet spelunking I've done: the course is not mandatory and is on LinkedIn Learning (requires a premium paid membership), so, how is something optional--- that most employees wouldn't look at--- supposed to address systemic racism within the Coca-Cola brand?]

    Some of the pushback to "Be Less White" reminds me of the pushback to "Defund the Police", in that some people can get behind the message of what is actually being said, but will take issue with the wording of the slogan.

    ** On Zendaya
    I know she's not actually Mary Jane Watson, but her character is called MJ and she seems to fulfill the role of love interest that MJ in the comics fills/filled, so for many individuals it is a race swap.
     
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  3. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    I assumed Coca Cola was saying their COMPANY should be less white. Not that the white people within it need to change who they are.
     
  4. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Cherokee Nation Removes Anti-Black Language From Its Constitution : NPR

    "Cherokee Nation Strikes Down Language That Limits Citizenship Rights 'By Blood' / The wording in the Cherokee Nation's legal doctrine has been used to exclude Black people whose ancestors were once enslaved by the Cherokees — known as Freedmen — from their full tribal rights."



    I think I asked a similar question two or three years back, and I can't say I remember getting any satisfying answear.
     
  5. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Well, the Russian government actively interfering in European democracies (elections, etc), including by supporting right-wing ethnonationalist political parties (like the Lega and Brothers of Italy here in Italy), and stoking racism and anti-migrant fears in the subcontinent, has something to do with the rise in Russophobia, particularly from the non-racist left. Not to mention their invasion of Ukraine. Also add to that the aggressive and violent homophobia of the current Russian government, which it also pushes in European contexts. In short, the current Russian government has something to do with the rise of Russophobia in Europe.

    But I also dislike the conflation of the “current Russian government” with “Russians” themselves. The broader Russian public that I’m aware of is largely tolerant, democratically-minded, and intelligent. In that context, Russophobia in Europe is similar to anti-Americanism in Europe. It’s largely borne of an aversion to imperialist interference, but unfortunately manifests itself in unjustified intolerance towards all people who originate from those places.

    Speaking of the bullying of immigrants in the US, American culture has long been a mocker of immigrants who don’t speak perfect English. Both my grandmothers were routinely mocked by *friends* for not being able to converse with them when they came to my door. “I speak no English, do you like pasta?” being an odd favorite of one dumb kid. All very ironic given that most Americans can’t speak more than one language, and that so many American tourists are upset when people don’t speak English in...non-English speaking countries they visit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  6. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    So in the midst of rising anti-Asian violence and racism worldwide, a German public radio host has had to apologize for comparing South Korean band BTS to coronavirus, and also saying they should be sent to North Korea. He also said he can't be anti-Asian because he has a Korean car (his car is in fact Japanese, he doesn't even know the difference).

    He's apologized of course but ugh... I hope he gets fired.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56218554
     
  7. Healer_Leona

    Healer_Leona Squirrel Wrangler of Fun & Games star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2000
    He's not racist because he owns a certain car... good lord these ******* racist people are just so awful.
     
  8. QUIGONMIKE

    QUIGONMIKE Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Hey, we agree. No need for suing anyone over it but as an employee you have to be like "dafuq"?

    You are also correct that being less ignorant, being more kind towards others that aren’t like you and more importantly: judge people on their character and their behavior above all else. Period. To me that’s the entire point of being colorblind and eliminating racism. Save your judgements for after you know what’s in someone’s heart and how they conduct themselves. Works wonders.

    Me and most other people whom are white have no problem with being asked to be cognizant of these issues. We work, play and interact with all kinds of people all the time. They are part of of our lives and it usually works out great despite the heavy negativity shown sometimes. There’s lots of good out there if you look.;). But please don’t tell anyone to stop being what they are or to feel overly guilty about it. If it was up to most of us I would have preferred to have been from the Gates or Bezos family. :D.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  9. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Right? It's up there with "I have a black friend" but even worse because it's not even a human.

    He has not been fired, btw. Unbelievable. I know some people probably think it's just silly that BTS fans are upset about this, but it has nothing to do with being a BTS fan to me.... It has to do with not being racist. Period.

    Also, why did this guy go on this racist tirade? Because BTS dared to do a cover of Coldplay's "Fix You" (with permission and appreciation from Coldplay). That's right, this host said it was "blasphemy" for them to cover it. As if Fix You is some white guy sacred hymn that Asians dare not touch.
     
  10. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
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  11. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015


    Self-defense is justifiable. Police brutality is not. That's all I'm going to say. X said it better than most could.
     
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  12. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
  13. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    So as we know the George Floyd trial will start “soon” I have been thinking about that. The more I think about it the more I think it’s gonna end real bad. I think he’ll be acquitted on all counts. I know. I know how bad that will make things. But I don’t have much hope that Chauvin will be behind bars at all.
     
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  14. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I'm mildly hopeful, but at the same time, I have no faith in the justice system and think it's an absurd joke.
     
  15. PCCViking

    PCCViking 6x Wacky Wednesday Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    As long as the unconstitutional policy of qualified immunity exists, there will be no justice.
     
  16. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015


    We need to protect the innocent people in this country from these Neo-Confederates.
     
  17. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin (2007-2023) - She Held Us Together star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    Trial is live on Court TV here in the UK - judge is currently questioning potential jurors. For those who have Sky TV, it's on channel 179.
     
  18. Dark Ferus

    Dark Ferus Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    As long as the judge and jury are right-leaning, there’s no chance of justice.
     
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  19. JediVision

    JediVision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Don't be so sure. I was stuck on a Greyhound yesterday listening to Sean Hannity and even he was saying that "as a martial artist" (lol) he knows that the most vulnerable part of the human anatomy is the neck so there's absolutely no excuse for doing what the officer did.
     
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  20. Beef_Sweetener

    Beef_Sweetener Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2005
    I hope you got off before the City of Dis stop.
     
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  21. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I'm concerned about Kentucky's attempts to make render offending police a crime.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
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  22. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
  23. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I could be wrong, but wasn’t one of the jurors of the Breonna Taylor case who came forward with complaints about the case a Trump voter who still found the case a farce?

    That jury selection process does offer a chance to root out the extraordinarily right wing candidates. The bigger problem, honestly, is the simple fact that the past has shown even very well selected juries will simply have the legal systems explicit bias in favor of the cops prevent justice.
     
  24. Juliet316

    Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Somebody with more legal expertise will correct me, but given that the Breanna Taylor jury was a grand jury, is the selection process for a grand jury somewhat different than a jury trial process?
     
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  25. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I believe so. However, selection of juries is always tricky. Legal situations are arranged to benefit the police, not the victim, in cases like that. However, sometimes people sympathetic toward the victim are chosen by accident or purposefully. Law is often a commodity to be bought and sold by the highest bidder. But sometimes you actually get more reasonable people in a jury or working as judges. I hope there has been enough outcry for Breonna Taylor. I am thankful that we had all these protests. That certainly helps.

    The selection process officially is up to the federal district. Not sure which part Kentucky is. I believe it's up to the U.S. District Court (whichever one has Kentucky in its jurdisdiction). Correct me if I'm wrong. After the Trump administration, I think I'm going to read more federal judicial cases than I once did, since I'm a paralegal student.

    This refers to a different district, but it's similar.

    https://mailtribune.com/news/since-you-asked/grand-jury-selection-is-luck-of-the-draw
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
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