Racism in the Forums: A Call to Action

So again I ask: Going forward, will you allow anyone to use the C-word, for intellectual and civil discussion

No, it will not be allowed for any discussion. End of story on that.

 

MEBEJEDI-- Have you really read my posts? I brought up the C-word as an example of a word that is completely banned in the forums but one that can be used casually and has been used in "civil" and "intellectual" discourse. Yet it is still not allowed. Thus exposing the hypocrisy of the mods. In the thread that I started, again, I used no profanity. I censored every bad word.

I am not looking for "retribution". I don't want anyone to be offended. I don't know how you come to that conclusion based on the points I am making.

KNIGHT WRITER -- Welcome back. So again, based on the evidence of many intellectual and civil discussions and even academic courses and art based on the C-word, what is your reasoning for not allowing civil and intellectual discourse using the word in the forums?

 

Green, fortunately I didn't just give my position to score points off someone else.

AsI stated I think most people here would agree with my statement, even acknowledging it's limitations as a generalization.

On the other hand, you distinctly misrepresented my point in another attempt to be right.

All I am saying is that amoung those to whom the word refers, (blacks and women respectively), "nigger" is accepted far more readily then "****".

You on the other hand want to say that any useage makes them equally accepted and thus equally worthy of discussion. This is plainly false.

 

"In the thread that I started, again, I used no profanity. I censored every bad word.

I am not looking for "retribution". I don't want anyone to be offended. I don't know how you come to that conclusion based on the points I am making."

The point being, how do you justify your desire to open a thread for a word that, by your own reasoning, has as much negative connotation as another word that you don't want people to discuss? ?

If saying "I don't want anyone to be offended" is adequate enough, in your mind, to negate any possible offense that may be taken by a thread about the C-word, then might such reasoning similarly apply to a thread about the N-word? Surely, if you felt C could be reasonably discussed, then N could be as well, right?

Seems the mods aren't the only ones guilty of "hypocrisy", are they?

 

MEBEJEDI-- WOW. You can't be serious?? Is it really that hard to see what I am saying? I am only making the points regarding the C-word to respond and make a point. I am not saying that I want the C-word to be used uncensored. I am saying that if the N-word is allowed, than the C-word should be or the converse, which is preferable to me.

Many other people, mods included, have stated that somehow discussing the N-word has social merit. So I easily pointed out the abundance of intellectual discourse on the C-word to again show that by that logic being employed, the C-word would have to be permitted as well (for anyone to use, not specifically me).

Man, get over it. I am trying to get racist slurs banned. I don't want the C-word to be allowed. That is my point.

 

Man, get over it. I am trying to get racist slurs banned. That is my point.

And indeed they are banned, outside of a single thread that does not involve people using them toward each other.

 

KNIGHT WRITER-- So are you going to answer my question?

 

" Many other people, mods included, have stated that somehow discussing the N-word has social merit."

And since you wanted a thread on the C-word opened, you felt it had social merit as well? ?

Care to explain that?

 

KNIGHT WRITER-- So are you going to answer my question

I've chosen to state the bottom line, which is that racial slurs are banned on the JC, outside of a single thread (and now this one, it seems). For reasons that farraday and others have pointed out, discussion is merited on racism and the N-word. For reasons that others have also mentioned, discussion on "vagina" and related vulgar slang words is not merited, and will not be allowed.

 

MEBEJEDI-- Last time. Employing. Their. Own. Logic.

KNIGHT WRITER-- So Farraday can use racial stereotypes and that is the basis for your conclusion (i.e. Black people are more "accepting" of the N-word, or even accepting at all.) Well, why aren't my racial and gender stereotypes equally (i.e., people are extremely offended by the N-word) valid?

And as I asked in my question, with the clear evidence of an abundance of civil and intellectual discussion of the C-word (the same reasoning who the posters who you have chosen to follow rely on), why is it not permissible?

 

You're not getting off that easy. I want to know how YOU justified opening a thread to discuss the word "****".

Was it to "gain a better understanding", or simply to get better pick-up lines?

 

MEBEJEDI-- Have you actually read my thread? It was not to discuss the C-word. (surprising, huh?)

 

I think it would be better to only use the words when discoursing on the subject, instead of casually using them, even if not as slurs.

 

Sorry, farraday.

"Have you actually read my thread? It was not to discuss the C-word"

What, exactly, was the point, then? And how did it relate to the C-word? ?

 

And as I asked in my question, with the clear evidence of an abundance of civil and intellectual discussion of the C-word (the same reasoning who the posters who you have chosen to follow rely on), why is it not permissible?

Because in my judgment and the judgment of other moderators, and also in numerous other members, there's little or no merit in discussing it, and it's not on the same level.

It's not going to change.

 

Why is there no merit? In face of the factual evidence you are clearly just ignoring. I have given numerous examples of the intellectual and academic discussion of the word, its impact on society, sexism and the feminist movement. And I have many more. Don't you think the fact that you don't even address that damages your credibility just slightly (about 99%)??


And what do you mean it's "not on the same level?" These are more normative statements. You don't offer any real reasons.

 

You've yet to answer MY questions, GDS...

What, to you, is the merit of a thread about the C-word, even if it supposedly doesn't discuss the C-word?

You are making no sense here, and your continued lack of an explanation is very telling. If you expect any kind of support from other posters against the Mods, you'd better start making your own case, rather than arguing against a Mod who is clearly unpersuaded, and will likely continue to be so.

 

I'm simply choosing not to get into a extended debate.

Other people here have given good reasons as to this decision, with farraday's probably being the most comprehensive of them.

 

"Extended debate"?? You're just choosing not to address a clear and convincing argrument backed with evidence and conclduing that you are right. That is not a debate. That's ridiculous.

And honestly, I think Farraday's post that you are citing, is equally ridiculous. He is just spouting stereotypes about Black people. I don't care if you and your friends agree with him, that should not be the basis for anything logical. All you are saying is that you personally don't find the N-word that offensive and despite your hypocritical rules and the fact the word is indeed offensive, "it's not going to
change."

Sad. And clearly dubious. At least Kimball attepts to use actual forum rules and reasoning, even if I disagree with him. You are just losing all credibility. I worry about any moderator who is advocating blatant racial stereotypes posted by another user as a ground for any decision.

 

Still ignoring my questions? ?

Let's review...

1) What was the intended name of your thread?
2) What was the intended subject matter of your thread?
3) In what way did the subject matter relate to the C-word?
4) Why was your request for said thread denied?

Don't start talking about the Mods' credibility, when you continue to duck the hard questions. If you never intended to make your own case, then what was the point of bringing this up in a public forum, except some attempt to score points?

Blatant accusations and pressing buttons isn't going to make your argument for you.

 

"Extended debate"?? You're just choosing not to address a clear and convincing argrument backed with evidence and conclduing that you are right. That is not a debate. That's ridiculous.

I'm going to direct you to one final rule from the Senate Floor. You seem to have completely overlooked this one:

C-2. Moderators are the final arbiters of all rules. In the event of a question or comment about these rules, contact a moderator for clarification. PMs are the preferred form of contact for communicating with a moderator. You can contact any one of us by clicking on the link in the forum header.

Let me repeat that first sentence for you. Moderators are the final arbiters of all rules.

In other words, you have been given multiple justifications and a clear decision has been made. At this point you are beating a dead horse. I suggest that you let its carcass lie.

Kimball Kinnison

 

I'm sorry but it isn't a racial stereotype.

I am nto attempting it to draw any conclusions about specific people, I am stating it as a general observation.

It is as much a "racial sterotype" as saying "Blacks are poorer then whites".

Less, really, since I quite clearly give quantitative statements to acknowledge that it isn't all blacks who think this way.

 

KIMBALL--Hello? Do you know what an 'arbiter' is?

It does not mean you make up and abuse rules at will. Even if you write in red font.

What rule are you citing to refute my issues? Please let me know.

Both you and Knight Writer overlook the abundance of evidence I have provided regarding the C-word. It clearly exposes your hypocrisy as arbiters.

FARRADAY-- Not like it is really necessary to point out, but you have to admit your points don't make sense. Per capita income among races is something the American government tabulates and keeps record of and at least has a working body of data that at least provides a credible starting point (taxable income).

How can you possibly compare that with your off-the-cuff racial stereotypes? Please.

 

Now we are arguing the definition of an "arbiter"? ?

Do I need to type in a large font, GDS?

ANSWER MY QUESTIONS!

 

I am quite familiar with the term arbiter. I'm also quite familiar with both the exact wording and the intent of the rules, as I helped draft the latest revision.

And those rules include the TOS and the guidelines on appropriate language. Take your pick.

You have gotten your answer. Be satisfied with that, or not. The decision has been made and it is final.

Kimball Kinnison

EDIT: Are you familiar with the definition of arbiter? One of them happens to be "Any person who has the power of judging and determining, or ordaining, without control; one whose power of deciding and governing is not limited."