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The Bad Batch Rampart

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by godisawesome , Jan 14, 2023.

  1. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Alright, noticed this dude didn’t have a thread where other antagonists do.

    So, how do you judge his skill set?

    Is he a genuinely pragmatic, effective military man who would have risen to Admiral anyways in the Clone Wars?

    Or an up-jumped but ruthlessly deadly bureaucrat whose careerist focus is an example of where the Empire’s fascism favors otherwise limited officers?
     
  2. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    The second one.
     
  3. Lord-Skywalker

    Lord-Skywalker Hangman Host/18X Wacky Wed Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

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    Jul 8, 2002
    In my head canon Rampart preceded Admiral Kendal Ozzel. And was stupider and clumsier.
     
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  4. Generational Fan

    Generational Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 21, 2015
    He already lacks the foresight to go and take care of a problem that now he, Crosshairs and only a handful of troopers know; that there are a bunch of former military personnel out on the loose in the Galaxy who could pose a potential problem for Imperial law and order.

    But he already suffers from Imperial arrogance like so many around him to the point where he thinks anyone (or any being) in the Galaxy will just roll over for him. Such arrogance leads to stupidity and short sightedness and it will be his downfall.

    But I'm enjoying his role as this really nasty and condescending fascist, a typical trait among Imperial ranks, and it's going to be an even sweeter moment when we see Crosshairs lining him up in his sights and saying "goodnight" as he pulls the trigger.

    Then it will be one less fascist in the Galaxy.
     
  5. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Yeah, I figured as much.

    He feels like a pitch perfect example of the different personnel and traits Tarkin loves to cultivate that will both enable the cruelty and oppression of the Empire, but also leave them vulnerable to the Rebellion.

    Rampart in Season One is an effective villain, but he feels like he just wouldn’t cut it in the Clone Wars; he depends on the overwhelming logistical apparatus of the Empire to accomplish his goals rather than wisdom or cleverness.
     
  6. Foreign32567

    Foreign32567 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2021
    Don't really like that Rampart became such a smug snake in recent episodes, IMO, his cold and neutral demeanour in season 1 was better and more original. Hope that at least in season 2 there will be some internal Imperial struggle, in which Rampart will be victorious, at least for some time.
     
  7. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    He’s a very strange character in the sense that I never would have pegged such a generic Imperial officer to be the main villain of the newest animated tv series. I think on the basis of that I’ve written him off in my mind as dead by the season’s end, perhaps to be replaced by whatever springs from Mount Tantiss.
     
  8. InterestingLurker

    InterestingLurker Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Man, Rampart really is one of those "love to hate" type-of characters except instead of being just a Joffrey Baratheon-clone where he's just there to make funny faces and be unrepentant doing despicable things, he's... Well, okay, he's still unrepentant, but the writers are not gunning for Joffrey Baratheon/Ramsay Snow type-of "character you love to hate" (which I tend to hate more because of how boring that story path is) but make him insufferable due to how... blind he is and so very analogous to the Empire that he serves, encompassing all its worst qualities.
     
  9. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I think the thing about Rampart is that, yeah, he's analogous to the fascist Empire he serves - when he’s got a mission that can be accomplished through the blunt brutality of an inevitably overwhelming application of force, he is efficiently proactive and energetic in doing so… but because fascism is inflexible and just as much (and often more) concerned with the appearance of inevitably unstoppable applications of force, he’s incapable of rather simple admissions of the failure of the usual strategy and even holds scorn and contempt for tactics and strategies that don’t conform to his preferred MO.

    Rampart reflects Tarkin’s preference for being perceived as a foe your hopeless to stop, even if that means taking a risk comparable to, say, failing to deploy all fighters and take precautions aboard the Death Star because you’re afraid of being seen as scared.

    Crosshair,min comparison, reflects Vader’s version of fascism - less concerned with looks, more concerned with results, but more out of delusional refusal to admit to being wrong about using force.
     
  10. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Rampart is for the most part a bog-standard Imperial fascist. Obsessively jockeying for position and favor. Most of these imperial officers all run together in terms of characterization. None of them ever really stands out from the other. Rampart's gotten smugger because he had some success on Ryloth and with obliterating Kamino. And with implementing Chain Codes for personal identification of everybody. Probably a step for the recruitment of an Imperial Army. Rampart's plan for getting there, not just wanting favor from Tarkin but as usual with these Imperials to succeed him is to push recruitment. To be instrumental in the creation of a loyal, cheaper army to do the Empire's dirty work. He is behind the KT Troopers. The clones may be more effective but there are obvious limits to what most of them are willing to do.

    That's working perfectly into Rampart's plan. I think he wants them to break, go AWOL, desert, or even rebel. Rampart is too arrogant to see the clones as a threat. He sees them as one below-plan life. It's even better Crosshair is a loyal dragon that Clones seem to go AWOL around because that's giving him a perfect scapegoat for when his lie the Bad Batch is dead is exposed. At the same time, Rampart does not like that there is even one clone who could be an exception to the rule. A loyal soldier to the Empire who will execute any order. He may try to send Crosshair to do worse and worse things in the hope he breaks. He's probably going to frame Crosshair as a traitor and a liar, or at least try to. Whether this will succeed is what remains to be seen. Rampart may well eventually end up in Crosshair's crosshair. If Crosshair doesn't kill him there was also foreshadowing in the season one finale for Rampart to end up on Hunter's knife. I'm really not convinced Cody ran away, so much as he was arrested after he disobeyed the order to execute the governor.

    Honestly, Rampart's low view of the clones was rampant in the Republic before the Empire. Just take a look at "Pursuit of Peace" in the Clone Wars. The discussion Padme has with a senator she was trying to sway to vote against funding for more clones. Clones are fully aware they are on the way out now. When Crosshair sits down with his tray we overhear a couple Reg's talking about a new defense bill they are hoping doesn't pass. One more reason Cody decided he was done.

    There is plenty of potential for Rampart being a good first big bad for The Bad Batch. He's probably going to be replaced with something much worse as the season progresses. Crosshair getting succeeded by a scarier "The Dragon" either way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
  11. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    And watch as the clones rebel or go AWOL and Rampart spins it as a sign of “Clone Madness” that they can avoid being recruiting normal soldiers.
     
  12. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Who the heck is Ramsay Snow?
     
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  13. Lord-Skywalker

    Lord-Skywalker Hangman Host/18X Wacky Wed Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

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    Jul 8, 2002
    The best dog food in Westeros.
     
  14. mnjedi

    mnjedi JCC Arena Game Host star 5 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 4, 2012
    The whole thing works really well as an indictment of Tarkins fear based system. Rampart gets some bad intelligence that lead to him reporting that Clone Force 99 is dead. He later finds out that he was misinformed and his report was wrong.

    If he were working for the Republic or Rebellion, that would be the end of it, the intelligence was bad, let’s make a plan to deal with the problem. But since he’s fully immersed in the Imperial system he knows full well that this misstep (which wasn’t even his fault) is going to result in Tarkin putting a blaster bolt through his chest. So now he’s killing his own subordinates for wanting to do thier jobs competently because he’s desperately trying to cover his tracks and save his own head. Meanwhile nobody ever actually does anything about clone force 99 and they keep becoming a larger problem. Something which could have easily been avoided if a bunch of toads weren’t constantly looking over their shoulders to avoid summary executions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  15. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Yup. Very much like how the Luftwaffe's head of intelligence kept telling Goering inaccurate reports because Goering wanted to hear positive news, and how Goering then turned around and made even more grandiose declarations to Hitler.
     
  16. Fin McCool

    Fin McCool Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2015
    One issue I have in general is how the military leadership takes to Republic --> Empire. A switch is flipped, and all of a sudden you've got evil guys milling about giving orders, carpet bombing places, shooting folks, etc. It seems a very sudden shift. But perhaps it's not. I think the authority figures at the very top like Tarkin (and Plapy & Vader, of course) explain some of this, as does the usual palace intrigue type of thing, but what I kind of lose sight of is that these officers have spent years ordering the total destruction of a droid army by subservient clones. Who cares how many you kill, and who's going to question you? It's reasonable to believe they've become numb to the consequences of their actions. And in that kind of environment a person with comparatively competitive and/or sinister disposition, like Rampart, can thrive.
     
  17. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

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    Apr 6, 2018
    I wish the prequels had explored that element of things. Could be a fascinating TV show, actually.
     
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  18. Sproj

    Sproj Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2019
    I imagine whichever leaders from the republic voiced objection, they ended up under vivisection.
     
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  19. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Yeah, the comics of the old clone wars multimedia project did some interesting stuff with the idea. In particular I remember Palpatine holding a press conference of officers to tell them of the "jedi treason" and introduce Lord Vader...and have Vader force choke the first person to object to keep the others in line. Plus, we saw more of Republic officers being evil during the clone wars, like young Ozzel going full Zap Brannigen with his men.

    As it is, I am curious what Rampart was up to during the clone wars. Personally, my headcanon will be that he was an officer in Prong Krell's unit (and that Fifth Brother was Krell's Padawan). They seem like they would get along well.

    ..........Also, it kind of bugs me that he seems to be everywhere doing everything. He is implementing the change codes, he is in charge of Elite Squad, he dismantled Kamino, etc and so on. Well, ok not really we do see other officers every once and a while, but it seems hard to pin down what Rampart's job and posting actually is...especially since he is just a vice admiral and not a full one, or a Moff or something that might have more wide ranging powers.
     
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  20. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    One thing that could be used to explain this is that the Jedi made up the bulk of the field generals and a significant portion of the higher command staff, with clones making up an also not-insignificant amount of the Chain of Command as well. The Navy also answers to the Jedi at this point, so even some of the admiralty is made up of Jedi...

    ...and now the Jedi are gone, and the clones who killed them are also being decommissioned.

    So now, immediately after Order 66, there's a bunch of ranks to fill even as the Empire also expands its military ranks and bureaucracy exponentially from wartime to occupation/despotism.

    Maybe Tarkin simply oversaw and integration of his preferred types of officers into the vacuum, deploying what was largely a collection of already-fascist members of his coterie or even just careerist logisticians into military and police roles and then giving out orders that ferret those with the stomachs he wants for his fascism... while conveniently enough also removing militarily competent officers who might oppose the empire.
     
  21. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998
    This thread's got me thinking. It's possible, maybe even likely, that when Sheev engineered the Clone Wars, he set up the opposing forces so that the survivors would be slowly traumatized, gradually growing more callused and indifferent to the years of ongoing war, eventually turning into the kinds of people who would unthinkingly obey orders to commit massacres.
     
  22. DannyD

    DannyD Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2017
    I like this, but also that for some, the trauma could make it go the other way. I.e., wanting all wars to end. The two kinds of responses make interesting storylines.
     
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  23. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    When you really examine the logistics and realities of The Clone Wars, there's a lot of nefarious aspects that can be extrapolated from it for an evil dictator.

    Palpatine and Dooku are swamping worlds in droid and clone armies, where sometimes there's probably more clones and droids than original inhabitants, with all the regular horrors of a massive war on steroids... but also...

    ...It's not like the Galactic population has actually been mobilized either.

    This is a populace traumatized by war but not battle hardened by it.
     
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  24. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Rampart must be mighty pissed.
     
  25. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

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    Jan 15, 2018
    He got played by both Palpatine and Tarkin.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2023