ST Rank the Last Jedi among the SW films

Well it's at the very bottom for me, too. I know that many would prefer I just leave it at that, but actually, I'd like to go a bit deeper into why I view TLJ as the worst Star Wars movie. Because technically, it would be unfair to even call it mediocre. TLJ looks spectacular. It is a feast for the eyes and might be the best looking SW feature film we have ever seen. Also, the story in itself is pretty solid if we're just looking at the basic plot points. We have looming dread, action-packed sequences, strong ethics and morals, humor and even the hero's journey.

So what exactly is it that bugs me, that drives me up the walls when I watch this movie? It's the execution, plain and simple. The direction is so all over the place that it boggles my mind how nobody on this multi-billion-dollar franchise's payroll thought to step forward at certain points and just say: "Guys, is this REALLY a good idea?" The shortsightedness of everybody that was involved in the process of writing the story is what frustrates me so very much.

For example: At the beginning, the stakes are high. Everything that the resistance fought for in Ep.VII is about to go down the drain. Poe faces the First Order fleet all by himself. That's awesome. I am invested in the setup, I'm pumped and excited to see what happens, what his plan is, because he couldn't possibly win against those odds. And then? That stupid, unnecessary, out-of-place prank call. Not only is it an unfitting, horrible attempt at comedy, no - it reduces General Hux to a buffoon. It destroys the tension that was built up. There's no hurt in lightening the mood during an exciting sequence, but you can't do that before you actually get the audience's adrenaline going. It's like poking a hole into a flaccid balloon. You won't be able to inflate it properly anymore.

I know I'm gonna waste too many words on the matter again, but the 'humor' was a major point of the movie that never allowed me to get into it. There were very little occasions when I had a chuckle, but that's it. But most of the scenes that were supposed to be funny had me rolling my eyes instead. How is a rich alien throwing up on BB-8 funny? Or that opera alien? Or BB-8 shooting coins? Or Rey telling Kylo to put on a shirt? Or a red guard getting shredded by a device that existed only for that scene? Or that stupid-ass caretaker cart getting smashed to bits? The prank call? The Slave-I pressing iron? What happened to clever, subtle humor? Why couldn't they tone it down just a notch, so that everybody can have fun? Star Wars is not comedy, despite the fact that all movies are very funny at times. There's a difference. In the original Star Wars, Luke, Han and Chewie try to get out of an elevator to the wrong side. It's a quick, funny moment, but it never takes you out of the scene, because it's over very quickly and not mentioned again. The 2017 version of that scene would have been Luke, Han and Chewie facing the wrong way too, but when the turned around to get out of the elevator, the door would close and they'd all run into it. Now is that funny? If you think yes, you will not understand why I loathe TLJ the way I do. My point is: too many sight gags that are just empty slapstick.

One of the main points that people who hated TLJ are going on about at great length is the treatment of Luke. I have no problem with Luke in TLJ. I can accept that over the many years that have passed, due to the traumatising events and him almost succumbing to the dark side, Luke is indeed a broken man. I actually like the idea that he punked Kylo at the end, because he saw that his destiny was not to defeat his nephew - but to ensure the survival of the resistance. That he wasn't actually there doesn't make him less of a hero - he still gave his life.

But what I can't abide is the opening scene and Luke just nonchalantly chucking the lightsaber. On every level imaginable, this is just wrong. It doesn't fit the character, it doesn't fit the scene, it doesn't fit the story and it takes a big, massive piss all over the fans who were left with tears of joy over seeing Luke again at the end of TFA. From a story standpoint, yes - it makes complete sense that Luke rejects the saber. But not like that!!! They way they did it tells us that Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber just doesn't matter. This big token of hope, of the light side that got reintroduced in TFA is not something Luke Skywalker, no matter how broken, just throws over a cliff. And there were so many more occasions where I just got the feeling that Rian Johnson deliberately tried to do exactly that: throw everything over a cliff just because.

 

ESB
ANH
TLJ
ROTS
TFA
R1
AOTC
Solo
TPM
ROTJ

 

@debiler enjoyed your post. I do think RJ the Director did a way, way better job in TLJ than RJ the Writer. And that's precisely where KK and the creative group should have done a better job managing his writing tendencies in his script.

 

I think TLJ was the least visually impressive of the Disney-era SW films.

 

I think Solo could've rivaled Rogue One if it was a tad less murky. I like Young, but he can be a little heavy-handed with those mud filters. Fraser's combination of a sharp format but with soft colors would've made Solo really stand out.

That said, I still find TLJ's cinematography to be very underwhelming, and the most "blockbustery" of the lot. I think it's because RJ overused the "bloom" filter, which gives that sort of candy-coated Thomas Kinkade look. Especially on Crait. That kind of visual technique is often used a little sloppily to make the background mesh with the CGI, with the effect of the whole frame looking a little artificial, rather than just some of the digital elements. And then there was far too much of those rapidly zooming close-ups, which were a big thing in a lot of 90s TV.

Anyway, visually, I'd rank them:

1. Rogue One
2. Solo/ TFA
3. TLJ

 

Thanks mate, appreciated. Yes, he did a much better job at directing the movie than he did writing the story. I honestly don't even know what to say about that, because it all seems so inconsequential to me. He's like some kind of "Anti-Lucas" in a way, who used to be a great, imaginative storyteller, but not a very good director. (A new hope excluded, but even that film has some weirdly shot scenes and wobbly dialogue at times)

 

1. TESB
2. ANH
3. TLJ
4. TFA
5. ROTS
6. ROTJ
7. RO
8. SOLO
9. TPM
10. TCW
11. AOTC

 

My updated ranking list:

1. ANH
2. RO
3. TESB
4. ROTJ
5. TFA
6. TLJ
7. Solo
8. ROTS
9. AOTC
10. TPM

 

Just finished an OT rewatch, and here's how I feel right now...

1. RO
2. ANH
3. TESB
4. Solo
5. ROTJ
6. TFA/ TLJ
7. TPM
8. AOTC
9. ROTS

 

The essential Star Wars purist list
1) ESB
2) ROTJ
3)SW
4)ROTS
5)TPM
6)TFA
7)RO
8)Solo
9)AOTC
10)Ewoks the battle for Endor
11)TLJ

 

Presently for myself ESB takes up the first four rank slots.

 

These are lists that make this thread interesting and totally worth it. I love how ANH is simply SW, and how you added Ewoks... Golden! xD

 

Like I said my friend, its the "purist" list.
I'm glad someone out there appreciates that when it feels like I am in some kind of alternate reality where the lists keep getting topped by TLJ!
+1 for you

 

ANH
ESB
ROTJ
RO
Solo
TFA
TLJ
TPM
ROTS
AOTC

the phantom menace has grown on me over the years, and I go back and forth between which I dislike more with AOTC and ROTS.

 

The order changes like every 7 seconds for me, but right now I would say:

1. ROTS
2. AOTC
3. ESB/ROTJ
4. TPM
5. TFA/ANH
6. Rogue One
7. TLJ

Haven't been able to see Solo yet, and TFA went drastically down in my rankings, though it's still an amazing film imo, it just has the most difficult competition imaginable. AOTC/ROTS and ESB/ROTJ are each near equal pears in quality, and are also greatly enhanced by each other, as well as, of course, the entire saga.


The only thing that hasn't changed for me is, surprisingly, ROTS taking the top spot. It's an absolute blast in the beginning, continues with and adds on the drama and anxiety of AOTC, and much like Anakin's turn, the anxiety and darkness builds up further and further, until it explodes and once that happens, there's no turning back for the film. From the moment Kenobi fights Grievous til the end, everything is absolutely perfect. It nears it's end with the second best duel in the franchise, and even then, the film gets better after that. Vader watching the Death Star's construction with Palpatine, seemingly doomed to live the miserable life he has now, along with Padme's funeral is really depressing. This is the only movie that no matter how many times I watch it, I always feel a bit down after its over, because not only is the massive rollercoaster of emotion over, but just how dark and dramatic it gets.


Okay now I'm rambling.

 

The day has arrived where, when I see people putting AOTC in the upper tiers, I don't instantly think there's something wrong with them.
I don't see how you people forgive Ben Burtt's "editing", and I don't see how you people forgive the abysmal editing of the Anakin / Dooku duel. You people. Sand I get - Lucas doesn't have the strong grip necessary to squeeze the juice out of actors. He's like, *touch, Ow my hand hurts, that'll do. Abrams to his credit does have a strong grip to get that performance out. Johnson obviously has a very good grip.

 

@Hernalt
You must realize that the technical aspects are not of primary importance for some SW fans. There is nothing wrong with that.
If someone consider the originality of the plot to be crucial, then TFA will be somewhere at the bottom of his list.

 

That day seems unimaginable for me.

 

I have grown to respect everyone's preferences and reasons to like or dislike something, therefore I accept every single ranking in this thread, as much as I wholeheartedly disagree with many of them.

At the moment, the only thing I don't understand is TLJ being placed over any of the first 6 movies, or Kylo Ren being placed at the top of all time favorite Star Wars characters. That, to me, is just incomprehensible. Maybe in the future I can understand the first part, but the Kylo thing, never....

PS. AOTC used to be 2nd spot for me just below ROTS about ten years ago. I don't care much about the editing you mention, because there are so many scenes I love in this movie.