ST Rank the Last Jedi among the SW films

Oh! I thought it was the banking thread, which is why I kept asking about how to avoid fees on international wire transfers.

 

1. TESB - 10/10
2. ROTS - 9/10
3. ANH - 9/10
4. ROTJ - 8/10
5. RO - 8/10
6. TPM - 7/10
7. TLJ - 6/10
8. Solo - 6/10
9. TFA - 6/10
10. AOTC - 4/10

 

Revenge of the Sith (Emotionally solid)

Rogue One (Spectacular third act and enjoyable characters)

A New Hope (All-around decent)

Empire Strikes Back (Great first and third acts)

Last Jedi (Visually appealing)

Force Awakens (Neither good nor bad)

Solo (Nobody asked for this, and why put all the feats in the same movie)

Attack of the Clones (Gaaaah, the romance, but hnnngh Detective Obi-Wan and the Arena)

Phantom Menace (Jar-Jar, but dang is pod-racing dope)

Return of the Jedi (Solid third act, takes too long to get there)

 

Return of the Jedi
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
Battle for Endor
Caravan of Courage
Rougue One
The Force Awakens
Solo
The Last Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
Star Wars Holiday Special

 

1. ANH - 10/10: I’m not sure how anyone can rank any other SW film above STAR WARS - from the dialogue, the derring-do and the music, simply unsurpassable. Even by today’s standards it clips along. The ending itself is strokes of genius from several standpoint, narratively and technically simply genius.

2. TESB - 10/10: Simply the best sequel. Following STAR WARS was an insanely difficult task. Making it as good as the first or better in the view of many is a huge testament to those involved. Moves the story forward, bounty hunters and I am your father says most. But the designs, especially the interior of Cloud City with the carbon freezing chamber and the webbing simulation reinforcing the trap is just unbelievably good.

3. ROTJ - 9/10: Great conclusion of Luke/Vader/Emperor, although wrapped too tight and a bit of a pander. Could have been a stronger ACT I and repeating Death Stars losses a point. Replacing Wookiee with Ewoks also point deduction. Perhaps Lucas along with budgets was saving these idea for future SW content.

4. TPM - 8/10: Some of the same critique from ROTJ applies to TPM as well. I do admire the beginnings of the ‘Ring’ method Lucas applies to the PT story and relates to the OT. However, wrapped a bit too tight I.e. Threepio origins. The PT in general is themes over chronology which I do admire. Extension of the politics and economics of the AGFFA is insanely ambitious. Also, the dichotomy of Living Force/Midichlorians and prognostication is great set up.

5. ROTS - 8/10: The tone is darker and necessarily so. I’m not a fan of the rescuing the Chancellor sequence. Some of it is just over the top and off from the tone of the OT. Same with the epic duel; generally love it, but just too exaggerated. Overall structurally, it’s great. Again, theme over chronology creates some idiosyncrasies with the former OT narrative, but I tend to value themes.

***This is where it becomes a matter of preference and what the viewer values and expects. I could easily prefer TFA or TLJ for differing reasons. For example, I think the ST tone in line with the OT but fails in pushing the narrative forward, especially visually with the iconography and building on the themes and concepts from the established narrative. The world building is abysmal. In my view...

6. AOTC - 7/10: The beginning of the Clone Wars. The Obi-Wan as Phillip Marlowe is great. The acting and dialogue on the Anakin/Padme front could be better. The overall structure intact, the fall/rise of Republic and Empire.

7. Solo - 7/10: Easily the best of the standalone films. It’s a straight up adventure story. Alden Ehrenreich a little short to be a Han Solo. Lucas should have made these movies concurrent with Indiana Jones. Could’ve been a great trilogy but I’m becoming more convinced SW is an event franchise that needs dormancy to rejuvenate itself and the fan base.

8. TFA - 6/10: The Search for Luke Skywalker is a great idea. The tone and acting are very good. Practical and digital mix well balanced. The character development problematic. I’m not really sold on lightsabers calling characters and imbuing visions. Seems like the gobbledygook of the force Lucas feared. The backdrop is largely absent. The visual iconography as well as the narrative does little to push the saga story forward in any meaningful sense and reinforces a stagnation in the creative side of production.

9. RO - 5/10: The music is so bad I can’t really sit through an entire viewing anymore. It suffers from too many conceits as well as too much tinkering. Some of the designs are good, like death troopers, but would have rather seen this kind of design pushing the ST forward and not in a timeframe with more familiar designs than new ones.

10. TLJ - 4:10: As a standalone film unrelated to the saga I’d give it higher marks. As part of a saga it’s a terrible entry. Technically it’s well balanced. I think Ridley’s performance isn’t as good as it was in TFA. The breadth and scope of the backdrop is truncated and the continued deconstruction of legacy characters falls flat. Kind of weird to do anything narratively possible to keep Luke out of the conflict, even to the extent of using illusions. One of the most interesting characters in SW is sidelined in the story. Makes little sense. The Yoda scene is cringeworthy. It’s a stagnant film and a stagnant narrative. No time jump is a huge mistake in my view. The main character largely absent from the third act shows the extent of the preoccupation and seeming belief that Luke in the same space as Rey in a conflict is somehow a bridge too far. Luke and Rey can both be a active agents without sidelining and illusions.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

You want to know why The Last Jedi was so bad?

No Lore
Luke Doesn't Fight
Snoke Dies
Rose
Canto Bait
The Space Chase
Corny and Out of Place Jokes
Admiral Holdo (Admiral Social Studies)
Luke's lightsaber was Anakin's instead of the GREEN one, even though Anakin's was broken 15 mins before.
Leia pulling a Marry Poppins
Rose
BB8 riding an AT-ST
The beginning and ending scenes were lame
No Knights of Ren
Luke milking an alien then drinking it, symbolizing Disney milking the saga
Barely to no training for Rey or Kylo\
Rose and Finn kissing after a cheesy line
Admiral Ackbar dies
The fight with Rey and Kylo against the Praetorian Guards was choreographed poorly
Captain Phasma
Luke dies
Oh, and did I say Rose?

1/10

The one is for Crait

My signature ranks the movies

 

Finally, someone on this board willing to answer this question.

 

1. Rogue One (2016)
2. The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
3. Star Wars (1977)
4. Return of the Jedi (1983)
5. The Last Jedi (2017)
6. The Force Awakens (2015)
7. Solo (2018)
8. Rebels (2014 - 2018 animated tv series)
9. Ewoks (1985 - 1986 animated tv series)
10. Star Wars: Resistance (2018 animated tv series)
11. Star Wars Holiday Special (1978)
12. Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008 - 2014 animated tv series)
13. Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure (1984 tv movie)
14. Ewoks: The Battle for Endor (1985 tv movie)
15. The Phantom Menace (1999)
16. Attack of the Clones (2002)
17. Revenge of the Sith (2005)
18. Droids (1985 - 1986 animated tv series)
19. Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008 animated movie)
20. Star Wars: Clone Wars (2003 - 2005 animated tv series)

 

In my opinion, the prequels tell a story that most fans like, but they are poorly made movies. The Disney sequels are very well made movies, but their story, especially The Last Jedi, goes in some very counter intuitive directions. Some hate this, while others like myself find it very refreshing.

I consider The Last Jedi to be vastly superior to the prequels, not only in filming and production, but also in the new direction the story takes. I have yet to read a fan idea on what they would have done with the sequels that sounds better than what we got.

 

This is almost exactly my list (though I've never included all of these before). Most strikingly similar is our ranking of Rogue One (my favorite SW film) and ROTS (my least favorite), which isn't so common. I find those films to be polar opposites in so many ways. Sure you're not my doppelganger?

Anyway, here goes my full list:

1. Rogue One
2. Star Wars/ The Empire Strikes Back
3. Solo
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Star Wars: Resistance
6. The Force Awakens/ The Last Jedi
7. Star Wars: The Clone Wars (series)
8. Rebels
9. Star Wars: Clone Wars (microseries)
10. The Phantom Menace
11. Attack of the Clones
12. Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure
13. Ewoks: The Battle for Endor
14. Ewoks (series)
15. Revenge of the Sith
16. Star Wars: The Clone Wars (movie)
17. Star Wars Holiday Special
18. Droids

 

Now if I can hear just one person tell me why they think ESB is so good, I'm interested in such an unpopular opinion.

 

But what poster would have the courage to propose such a radical ideal...

 

Why Empire Strikes Back is so good compared to the rest:

Atmosphere is best in series
Tons of LORE and references
Music is spot on with each corresponding scene
The pacing was good
Cinematography is legendary
The opening scene is epic
The Empire begins as a threat with a small creepy sounding probe droid that establishes a scary aura due to its capabilities of alerting the Imperial Fleet.
Wampa
Introduction of Force Ghosts
Hoth made you feel cold
The music for the Battle of Hoth is best in series
The Battle of Hoth itself is one of the best in the saga introducing the menacing AT-AT
Luke takes down an AT-AT all by himself
Snowspeeders wrapping the AT-AT legs was entertaining and gave the speeders a purpose
"I thought they smelled bad... on the outside!"
Dak
The Imperial Fleet remains a threat instead of being made into a joke like The Last Jedi
Leia looks the most beautiful
"Why you stuck up, half-witted, scruffy looking, Nerf Herder!"
Chewie laughs
Han's lines are well written
The Super Star Destroyer
The love story between Han and Leia have good chemistry and isn't forced
C3PO and R2-D2 were highly humorous and served their purpose well
"Watch this!"... "Watch what?"
The creatures were interesting and diverse
Han and Leia's first kiss is iconic
Luke is actually seen training and put to the test on Dagobah
"Never tell me the odds."
Yoda is phenomenal by being humorous and silly at first but then is revealed to be a wise warrior.
Dagobah's landscape is well done
"It's not my fault!"
Yoda lifting the X-Wing with the music is legendary
Yoda expands on the Force and has phenomenal Jedi teachings
The jokes especially with Han and Chewie trying to fix the Falcon were highly humorous and not out of place
The space chase with the Imperials and the Falcon was riveting
Boba Fett
Luke facing the dark-side on Dagobah was symbolic and pivotal in Luke's training
Lando is an awesome character and a good counterpart to Han
Bespin is a beautiful planet, where we see the director use white panels for windows, so that it can be filled in with great CGI in later editions
Darth Vader is a towering menace and remains mysterious throughout the movie
First time we get to see The Emperor with intriguing dialogue
Good casting and acting from the Admirals and Captains in the Imperial Fleet.
Darth Vader is ruthless showing no mercy to failure by Force Choking an Admiral through a telescreen
The scene where we get to see the back of Anakin's head before he puts on his mask is iconic
"I Love You," "I know."
Han getting put into carbonite was emotional and gave you questions enforcing continuity
The duel between Darth Vader and Luke was the most ICONIC climax in all of cinema history, with the revelation of Darth Vader being Luke's father.
Plants seeds that Leia is Luke's sister
Satisfying ending with beautiful music

10/10 Best in the series compared to the rest

 

Revisiting a while later and now Solo had time to sink in.

1. TESB
2-3. ANH / RO
4. ROTJ
5. ROTS
6-7. TPM / AOTC
8. TFA
9. Solo
10. TLJ

Spoiler: Wall of text rationales

1. TESB
It's still astonishing to me just how much happens in how many places with none of it looking particularly rushed, and all of it contributing towards the movie's resolution and setting up the trilogy's climax. Obviously, it's aged quite a bit, but The Empire Strikes Back remains, in my view, the apex of the series, including quite a few iconic moments and lines. Who has never heard an "I'm your father" reference or joke?

2-3. ANH / RO
I'm probably going to appear highly unorthodox tying up these two, and especially considering just how different both movies are and one of them isn't even part of the saga proper. Yet Rogue One, despite its faults (what movie doesn't have any?) puts in a considerable amount of effort tying into A New Hope and into the continuity in general, shows a grittier side of the Star Wars universe and does a decent job of it in the process, and to touch on the "sensitive", also does a very good job with the contemporary concern of putting together a diverse cast, with a female lead at the top, and not waving at you through the Fourth Wall to tell you "see what we did here?" I wish this was what more what Disney-era Star Wars movies looked like, Saga movies included.

(Plus, DAT VADER SCENE )

A New Hope also ranks only slightly below TESB for me, on completely different merits from Rogue One. Where the latter was the right way of relighting up the saga to me, this, well, is the origin of the whole saga (duh!), and much like TESB, there's hardly a dull moment or a rushed story despite it all being very, very tightly packed with different stories and different locations, providing its own share of iconic moments, and with the business of exposing what the world of the Saga is like for the first time on top of the rest. My only complaint regarding ANH would be about this installment, more than any other, suffering from age - which is absolutely normal considering ANH did not enjoy the comfort of the rest of the saga's preexisting successes to help budget it and most of the technology used later on was in its infancy.

4. ROTJ
ROTJ is the OT film I'll admit to liking the least, and I'll explain why with three words: Ewok marketing push. I've always found it frankly ridiculous to watch primitive, physically disadvantaged and largely disorganized warriors armed literally with stones, sticks and flint-tipped weapons essentially crush "an entire legion of my best troops", to quote Palpatine, armed and protected to the teeth with armaments and protections that somehow don't do anything they're designed for and can't be explained away as sabotaged because the movie leaves no room for it happening.

But that's the only thing annoying me in the whole OT. The rest of ROTJ more than makes up for it, starting with the performance of returning to an already used planet and make it a completely different experience, and once again with quite a lot happening in multiple places without the movie suffering from any of it, and weaving together the conclusion to a most excellent saga in the process, throwing in another few iconic moments nearly everybody can reference across three generations of viewers.

5. ROTS
To me, ROTS is by far the best of the PT movies. Not that it's reaching the density and efficiency of the PT, but it does provide for quite a few long-awaited moments for the long-time fan, avoids most of the obnoxious pitfalls of the other two movies in the PT, offers quite the spectacular spectacle (sorry) and includes its own share of iconic moments. It's also the last movie on this list I can enjoy rewatching at just about any time.

6-7. TPM / AOTC
Quintessential space opera - and ironically, this would be my cricism of both movies: unlike the five I mentioned before, the first two movies of the PT made for a very good time at the theater and then at home (especially considering the bands of nutters I went to watch them with for the first time), but they were missing that je-ne-sais-quoi that moved the OT from just being very good movies to the territory of legendary. Here again, the action is varied and tightly packed, but this time around, the entire journey isn't quite epic. Still, visually and phonically spectacular, and very entertaining movies.

8. TFA
While visually and phonically spectacular too, TFA, to me, fell hard because of a very bad mistake from its makers: it was a movie written to be the seminal one in a new saga, except it was the seventh movie in a four-decades old saga. The entire situation from the OT is reset, we get full repackaging for the Rebellion, the Empire, the legends about the Jedi, Luke Skywalker (who, too, was a kind-hearted and simple young adult from a desert backwater, with great innate talent for piloting, good knowledge of mechanics and a gift in the Force, just not good in a fight; as an aside, did you note how Rey could do everything Luke could at the same point, just better?). We even get a repackaged Death Star, complete with the Quest to destroy it, and the Republic turns out to just be as useless in its new incarnation as it was in the PT. Oh, and Han Solo gets killed in a scene you could see coming from one hour away, but he's not part of the repackaging. In fact he's the one most recognizable element from the OT that made VII and VIII by a very long margin. Too recognizable, in fact, as the failures of his couple and as a parent throw him back to ANH patterns.

Not that this is a bad movie, far from it - and if nothing else had existed in the Star Wars saga, The Force Awakens does have the contents needed to be a seminal work on its own, and a very entertaining one at that, as well as one which opens a lot of avenues for further storytelling. But at the end of the day, it's main issue is that TFA was never going to be a seminal work: it's movie #7 in a franchise, re-using the entire framework of movie #1, resetting the world to what it was for movie #1, and with the three leads from movie #1 still around. If Disney was going to "kill the past" for their relaunch of the saga, said past should already have been dead when the title scroll started rolling.

9. Solo
Unlike the previous eight, Solo leaves a lot to be desired in its very action. And unlike Rogue One, it doesn't do a good job of tying into the continuity of the saga we already know. On the contrary, future continuity is explained in very off-handed ways, as if the iconic elements defining the character of Han Solo we know and love from the OT were accidents and really not important at all. But look at those dice from the ST, though!

Don't get me wrong - again, on its own merits, we have a visually pleasant and overall entertaining movie, which also manages to keep to the pacing one would expect of a Star Wars series movie while building up to a satisfying overall resolution. But unlike TFA, which at least had the merits of doing quite a bit of world-building despite its abundance of world resetting, Solo's contribution to the Star Wars continuity was making the anticipated origin story and formative years of its eponym into less important than they could have been. And as the first movie in this list which doesn't actually build anything, for someone like me, who is first and foremost interested in storycrafting and continuity crafting, it means Solo couldn't rank any higher.

10. TLJ
Now we also have that bit of insight, to me, The Last Jedi suffers from a similar fundamental flaw as the 11th season of Doctor Who which just concluded: much effort was spent to make them radically depart from what existed before them, into entertainment centered largely around contemporary societal issues with an easily identifiable agenda (and some set pieces of filmmaking the director wanted to feature in, for TLJ), and the substance of the show's purpose being providing context for the messages (and set pieces). And in both cases, the directors and higher-ups made it clear that course correction was central to their approach, and it was the politically regressive who wouldn't accept their message.

And that's a problem regardless of the contents of the messages. So much effort was made into the societal messages becoming central that the flow of the story that even the most central plot points were articulated around the messaging and many smaller scenes were only justified by yet another message, rather than the messaging being integrated into a story and being made that much more powerful in the process (show, don't tell rule). Throw in two very long sequences, the space chase and Canto Bight, combining into a solid hour of movie, with the former being painfully slow and requiring a serious effort to suspend disbelief, and the latter contributing exactly nothing to the advancement of the plot, and you have the only movie in the entire series delineated here which does not manage to keep the action flowing from start to finish.

Not only that, but a large part of the plot development deconstructs or provides dead-ends to the continuity woven in The Force Awakens, which was supposed to serve as the seminal work for the new iteration of the saga. Yet a large part of what existed at the end of TFA is completely gone by the end of TLJ, like the Resistance getting entirely wiped out except an old freighter and a few dozen survivors, the old Jedi order and philosophies are terminated on screen, and the Supreme Leader who took over and entirely reset the galaxy to the darkest hours of the Empire has died in a fluke. And many questions left open-ended by TFA have been given definitive non-answers, diminishing the value of TFA in the process.

And then you have two major continuity headaches occurring because the director wanted a WW2 bombing run scene and the silent hyperspace ramming shot.

Taken on its standalone merits, or based on the avowed intent of making a complete departure from past form and center on contemporary issues, The Last Jedi certainly succeeds. But in order to accomplish that, it causes quite a bit of damage to the series as a whole, starting with its own seminal work, and yet does not manage to deliver its messages in an intemporal manner, let alone one that leaves the Fourth Wall entirely untouched (part of this work's defense against its critics actually is that real world issues bluntly showing through is intentional).

And again, for someone who values storycrafting and continuity the way I do, a movie that deliberately does away with both as part of its intended delivery was never going to rank above movies that don't.

 

I like pretty much all of Star Wars. The three prequel movies are the only ones I really struggle with. At one time, In 1999, I enjoyed the experience of new Star Wars movies in the theater, but didn't like the movies themselves, only certain parts. I would have given them a 0/5 rating. I found them completely intolerable. Compounding it was the thought that it was all I had to look forward to. That was what I thought Star Wars had become and what the future of Star Wars looked like.

The release of The Force Awakens was a breath of fresh air for me, and actually increased my enjoyment of the prequels, because now I can appreciate them for what they were, a product of their unique moment in time. Now I would rank them somewhere around 3/5. Some of my favorite moments in the entire saga are in the prequels, but I still prefer the Original Trilogy and the new movies.

 

That can't be right. This list must be a joke. No one dares to put the Holiday Special anywhere above 12. Not after Lucas attempted to erase it from history.

 

1. Empire (the closest film in SW to being perfect. No, it isn't anywhere near perfect. I said the closest)
2. ANH
3. ROTJ (a mix of awfulness on the Endor moon w/ the ewoks, meh with the Tatooine plot although seeing Luke kick ass there was cool, and greatness in the Throne Room and the space battle)
4. TFA (Clearly a remake of ANH, and it doesn't hide this. It does what it tries to do - tug at our nostalgia and introduce Star Wars to a new gen of kids who never watched the old movies. Mission accomplished. Great acting in comparison to other SW films.
5. Rogue One (slightly below TFA due to the main cast being devoid of charisma, bonus points for amazing action in the 3rd act)
6. ROTS (Everything with Palpatine's rise to power is great. Ewan McGregor is at his best in this one. Natalie Portman is ok despite a some cringey dialogue. John Williams's OST is the best of the prequels. CGI much improved over AOTC which didn't age well.)
7. Solo (somewhat enjoyable but overall forgettable. At least it showed us some new designs in terms of costumes, ships, aliens, etc. More imagination than TLJ)
8. TPM (the Duel of the Fates scene alone makes this worthy or even being on the list. Everything else is just........don't get me started)
9. TLJ (Visually stunning...great performance by Mark........and extremely boring storyline that feels so small in scale. The movie gives off the impression of taking risks..but in reality doesn't. The only risk they took was killing Luke...and that was done in a very unsatisfactory manner)
10. AOTC (poor quality CGI fest....the cheesiest love story I've ever seen...)

 

1. TESB - 10/10
2. ANH - 9.75
3. ROTJ - 9.50/10
4. ROTS - 7.75/10
5. RO - 7.5/10
6. TPM - 7/10
7. TFA - 6/10
8. Solo - 5/10
9. AOTC - 2/10
10. TLJ - 1/10