ST Rank the Last Jedi among the SW films

No shame at all, can't see something if it's not there.

 

Really?

Sent from my QTASUN1 using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, if I am told that I am blind because I don't have the same opinion with someone else, surely my disagreement to being blind should not be an issue?

 

I had a discussion about Star Wars with a new coworker on Friday, he told me TLJ is his second favorite. He was pretty jazzed when I told him it was my favorite.

 

*looks at the last two pages*


I liked Thor The Dark World

 

I prefer the other two Thor movies, but I still like TDW

 

The dark elves are cool.

 

The 9th Doctor was wasted as the main villain though.

 

I enjoy TLJ as a stand alone piece of entertainment. It's well made and it pulls the emotional strings at the right points.

But I am having a very hard time with it as part of the SW saga.

 

I'm revising my rankings from earlier in this thread (would have been several months ago). My daughters are often wanting to watch TFA and TLJ with me, so I'm probably close to 15 viewings of TLJ by now. And I'm going to come right out and say it: The Last Jedi is as good as The Empire Strikes Back. I originally voted it as #3 (and that's what my poll vote says), but having had more time to really think about it, the film deserves to share the top spot on my list with ESB.

1. The Empire Strikes Back, The Last Jedi
3. Star Wars
4. The Force Awakens, Revenge of the Sith
6. Return of the Jedi
7. Attack of the Clones
8. Rogue One
9. Solo
10. The Phantom Menace

 

even though I wish there was a time jump between 7 and 8. the two movies are great together.

 

The more I watch it, the lower I rank it. Just doesn't resonate with me. I can't even fathom enjoying it more than Rogue One. But subjectivity, and all that. We like what we like and don't like what we don't like.

 

I feel the same way. The more I think about it, reappraise it's dismal story, uninspired visuals, laughable script and cringeworthy meta commentary, the more terrible it gets. But it doesn't really affect my rankings because it's already at the bottom.

 

Not surprisingly, it’s the opposite for me. TESB will always be hard for anyone to beat because I will always respect what it did for Star Wars but it’s inching up closer to ANH level for me which I never thought possible.

Those who hate VIII most very consistently encountered at least one significant deal breaker first and then turned their rage toward the work after that process and if I’ve learned anything about any aspect of art it’s that if anyone wants to rip something they can.

If someone doesn’t hate the Luke arc, or Reylo, or either believes that a Rey lineage surprise is still around the corner, or is okay with Rey random, and isn’t easily offended by representation concerns in film, then the minor criticisms brought up beyond those areas are largely things that can be applied to other episodes of one really wanted to. And none of those contrivances really bother me much in ANY Episode and in fact feel like part of the Star Wars serials DNA at this point for me. Similarly, you either enjoy dark second chapters where the villains gain the upper hand and the heroes look worse or you don’t. I happen to love them.

I happen to be someone who didn’t see any of the areas above as deal breakers and who in fact found quite a lot to unpack in what was there.

The film was regarded by other sci-fi and fantasy writers as a script worthy of award from their group for good reason and the directing and acting are considerably better than what’s on the page and elevate it further.

In terms of direction it’s probably 3rd behind ANH & TESB only. In terms of writing I’d put it middle of the pack close to ROTS and above I & II. In terms of acting I think a case can be made that it’s best in the entire saga. TESB & TFA are right up there alongside it and then come ANH, ROTS behind those 3. Some of the acting in the saga is awful and won Razzies. I’m talking sags films only here. Rogue One’s acting and direction were both great and it’s script has some brilliant moments to it.

In terms of spectacle, the destruction of the Deadnought, Praetorian Guard sequence, Holdo maneuver, Luke on Crait, Finn & Phasma fight, Canto Bight’s casino and stampede, the ruby red Falcon drive through the canyon, the destructive layers of Crait, Rey’s stones moments, and the visuals on Ahch-To, including the tree in the fog, the shot of Rey practicing with her saber by herself on the ledge are all up there with the best in the series for awe factor.

In terms of humor it’s one of the deliberately funny films in the saga with some great comic relief.

In terms of surprises... it’s packed with them that legitimately shocked people.

In terms of emotion, Luke & R2, Luke and Leia, Kylo Ren and Rey, Yoda and Luke, Rey in the tree with Luke, Finn and Rey’s hug, Broom boy rising his broom, the Fathier moment, Luke and the twin suns, Rose’s faint kiss, are all big moments that land for many.

In terms of force lore enhancements, the ancient Jedi texts, Yoda’s lightning, Luke’s force projection, Rey’s dark side vision, and Luke’s astral projection are all awesome enhancements to what we know.

It contains many of the big philosophical ideas and influences that mattered to George Lucas and matter to me about Star Wars.

In many ways it’s a combination of both TESB’s strengths and ROTJ’s all while delivering a Campbellian end for Luke while doing what the ST needed to become something different and more unique through the big risks it took to ensure that the ST is something other than only a soft reboot of the OT.

 

I will ignore the rest of the post (which rather belongs in the complimentary thread), but I will comment on that part of your post. I don't think that it's constructive or productive to dismiss and/or invalidate negative opinions about a film, by saying that some people hated one element of the film, and then used their feelings and their bias against that element, to start hating everything else on said film. That logic could work both ways, but I don't recall seeing anyone telling people they liked the film because they loved one element in it, and then started loving everything else about it.

I strongly disagree about that Star Wars DNA and the dismissal of criticism. Yes, some of the acting, directing, what you have it, in all the Star Wars films are not exactly what the Academy would want you to do based on their (very narrowminded to me personally) views about how films should be made, but that's not an excuse for any film. I also enjoy very much the second chapters where the villains gain the upper hand and the heroes look worse, just not all of them. That would mean an obligation to like a film just because it switches up things. Not enough for me.

Yeap, I feel the same way. Can't really affect my rankings either, it was and will forever be the last one in the rankings, which makes its title a meta kind of joke in a way. "The Last Jedi film, yeap, the worst one". The only thing that happens over time is that the gap just keeps getting bigger in my head...

 

Top tier:
The Empire Strikes Back.

Still great:
A New Hope

Good enough to call Star Wars:
Return of the Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
Rogue One

Passable entertainment, garbage Star Wars:
Attack of the Clones
Solo
The Force Awakens

Ruined my childhood:
The Phantom Menace
The Last Jedi

Haha just joking, I love them all equally so I couldn't vote. I can only really say that my first viewing of TFA, I was not feeling it as much, and then I saw it 42 times in theaters, so you know, obviously I ended up loving it. Somehow, it took more adjustment to me, I can't say why, but boy I ended up loving it after the 2nd viewing. My first viewing of The Last Jedi I absolutely loved it, I was blown away, definitely thought "masterpiece" right away with TLJ.

 

I put TLJ last.

For me it goes:

1. ANH
2. ROTS
3. TESB
4. ROTJ
5. TPM
6. AOTC
7. R1
8. TFA
9. Solo
10. TLJ.

A New Hope is my favourite film ever, not just favourite Star Wars film and as much as I like Empire, there's something about Revenge Of The Sith that really speaks to me. I also view the first 6 Star Wars films as an inseparable volume of chapters in a story so while I enjoyed much of Rogue One, it will always sit below Lucas' saga for me. Force Awakens was fine but feels too much like it's trying to play at being Star Wars, like a kid playing with Stormtrooper action figures and that creates a disconnect between the sequels and the first 6 films. Solo is OK, I've watched it a couple of times but it's an utterly pointless movie in my eyes. Then there's The Last Jedi. Is it the worst movie ever made? No but for me, it gets so much wrong that, just as my love of Star Wars means ANH will always be my favourite movie ever, it also means that TLJ will be at or near the bottom of the list of movies I've seen for decades to come. And you know, I hate that. I hate that I feel that way about a Star Wars movie but there it is.

 

1. TESB
2. ANH
3. TLJ
4. ROTS
5. TFA
6. ROTJ
7. TPM
8. RO
9. SOLO
10. TCW
11. AOTC

 

1. TESB
2. ANH
3. TLJ
4. ROTJ
5. ... TFA?

Top 4 is rock solid, the rest are pretty much interchangeable.

 

For me it’s unchanged in terms of the superiority of the CT.

As of now, TLJ remains above TFA but I can be swayed...

 

I'm having a hard time deciding how to feel about TLJ.

I'm not really a big fan of the official version of the movie, but all of the fan edits that cut it down to mainly just the Luke/Rey/Kylo story have helped me see the beauty buried within it, if that makes sense.

So on one hand, I enjoy the movie, but not necessarily the official version (at least not from beginning to end), cause I see just how much better it can be with just a few simple adjustments that even a first-time amateur editor can do.

Thing is, if I rank the movie against the rest of the franchise based on how I feel about a fan edit, than am I really ranking the movie? Or am I just ranking a fan edit?

Anyone else experiencing something similar with their rankings?

 

Just looking back at what I ranked it. I had forgotten that I gave it a 7th place. That seems so high.

I would say the movie has only gone down hill. Whereas before I thought it was at least better than TPM and AOTC, I would now rank it tied for last place.

1: ESB
2: ANH
3: ROTJ
4: RO
5: TFA
6: SOLO
7: TPM
8: ROTS
9: AOTC // TLJ