RE: Legalization and Decriminalization of Marijuana(A major solution to social and economic problems

"caffeine, which is chemically addictive." - Do you drink coffee? Because you said you didn't support the use of any recreational drug. Also the use of ANY legal drug should be left up to the individual. And people who deny the legalization of any substance because they do not believe in the recreational use of ANY drug, is UNWARRENTED, and UNFAIR. Recreational use is not ABUSE. (I'm not implying that you said it was)


"I am getting sick of hearing this inaccurate statement. It is wrong. Marijuana is addictive. It is just not chemically addictive." - Bingo


"Excuse me it is very addictive" - Have you ever tried it? I'd like to hear from some people who have personal experience. I'll I've seen, and heard is a bunch of people spouting stuff they've read in books or seen on TV, or the net. I don't take anybodies word for ANYTHING. I was in DARE in school, and half of what was said was scare tactics, NOT TRUTHS. I'd like to add: Out of all the drugs I've done in my life, illegal and legal, marijuana is the ONLY one that is currently illegal that I feel should be legal. DARE is one of the reasons why I believe marijuana has falsley been labled a gateway drug. Kids will experiment, this is fact. And after finding out pot is nothing like they were taught, they get the itch to find out about other substances. I know I did, and most of my schoolmates did. And what a surprise it was too find out that most of the horror stories we were told about other drugs WERE true.


"forced drug treatment" I hope you didn't meen for pot, counseling maybe, but forced drug treatment for pot is a JOKE.


Edit:
anakin_girl wrote on the first page: "I have never heard of anyone hooked on drugs who was not also addicted to alcohol." - Well consider me the first. I was a herione addict at one point in my life. Its not something I share very often with people, especially over the internet. I do drink alcohol, but a sixpack of Bud will sit in fridge for weeks before I finally drink the last can. And I rarely drink more then two in a night. Granted I drank alot on my recent trip out of state, but I was surrounded by people who drink everyday. And I was just doing as the Romans do.

Kessel Runner wrote under her post: "Have you ever met someone who smoked marijuana or used any other drug who didn't smoke cigarettes first?" - Again, consider me the first. I CAN'T STAND CIGARETTES. They are nasty, smell bad, and taste worse.


Sate_Pestage wrote: "I doubt most of you would want it legalized after you saw the outcome! It would be regulated and controlled by the Govt. The price would go way up because of the taxation placed on it. The restrictions placed on it by law enforcement would be mind-boggleing and I bet it would lose a lot of its luster once it was legalized.
" - Take a look at Holland, and tell me this again.

 

Do you drink coffee? Because you said you didn't support the use of any recreational drug.

No, I do not drink coffee. In fact, I avoid almost everything with significant quantities of caffeine. (It actually has a reverse effect on me and puts me to sleep.)

Have you ever tried it?

No, I have not. However, I have many friends who have tried it and many of them have described to me how addictive it is. As I stated before, I am against the recreational use of any drug, even alcohol, caffeine or tobacco, the legal drugs. My position is based off of the first-hand accounts and observations I have made or heard.

And people who deny the legalization of any substance because they do not believe in the recreational use of ANY drug, is UNWARRENTED, and UNFAIR. Recreational use is not ABUSE.

Like I said, I do not support the recreational use of any drug. That includes legal drugs like alcohol. However, I do not try to stop people from using alcohol, because each person must choose for themself what to do. I have many friends who go out and get drunk each weekend. They know I do not approve of it and that I will not take part (despite their many invitations). However, they also know that if they ever feel like they have drunk too much, they can call me and I will immediately (and with no questions asked) come pick them up. I will not support their choices, but I will do what I can to help them make better ones.

Additionally, there is a big difference between accepting that something that you do not approve of is already legal and agreeing to legalize something else that you do not approve of. I have a responsibility, to my own consience, to speak out for what I believe in. You have the same responsibility. It is not unfair for me to speak out on my beliefs any more than it is unfair for you to speak out on yours.

I hope you didn't meen for pot, counseling maybe, but forced drug treatment for pot is a JOKE.

The specific treatment that each of my friends went through depended on their exact cases. One of them did receive only counselling. Two others had to attend some drug education seminars and show (through tests) that they were clean through their entire probation period. In the case of one of my friends who was beginning to use harder drugs, he also received some jail time and received treatment during and after his time served.

Kimball Kinnison

 

The following quoted from Silencer-7 on the second page of this thread:

"And here are a few facts which are rather interesting and may enoighten you all:

1. Marijuana causes brain damage
The most celebrated study that claims to show brain damage is the rhesus monkey study of Dr. Robert Heath, done in the late 1970s. This study was reviewed by a distinguished panel of scientists sponsored by the Institute of Medicine and the National Academy of Sciences. Their results were published under the title, Marijuana and Health in 1982. Heath's work was sharply criticized for its insufficient sample size (only four monkeys), its failure to control experimental bias, and the misidentification of normal monkey brain structure as "damaged". Actual studies of human populations of marijuana users have shown no evidence of brain damage. For example, two studies from 1977, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) showed no evidence of brain damage in heavy users of marijuana. That same year, the American Medical Association (AMA) officially came out in favor of decriminalizing marijuana. That's not the sort of thing you'd expect if the AMA thought marijuana damaged the brain.

2. Marijuana damages the reproductive system
This claim is based chiefly on the work of Dr. Gabriel Nahas, who experimented with tissue (cells) isolated in petri dishes, and the work of researchers who dosed animals with near-lethal amounts of cannabinoids (i.e., the intoxicating part of marijuana). Nahas' generalizations from his petri dishes to human beings have been rejected by the scientific community as being invalid. In the case of the animal experiments, the animals that survived their ordeal returned to normal within 30 days of the end of the experiment. Studies of actual human populations have failed to demonstrate that marijuana adversely affects the reproductive system.

3. Marijuana is a "gateway" drug-it leads to hard drugs
This is one of the more persistent myths. A real world example of what happens when marijuana is readily available can be found in Holland. The Dutch partially legalized marijuana in the 1970s. Since then, hard drug use-heroin and cocaine-have DECLINED substantially. If marijuana really were a gateway drug, one would have expected use of hard drugs to have gone up, not down. This apparent "negative gateway" effect has also been observed in the United States. Studies done in the early 1970s showed a negative correlation between use of marijuana and use of alcohol. A 1993 Rand Corporation study that compared drug use in states that had decriminalized marijuana versus those that had not, found that where marijuana was more available-the states that had decriminalized-hard drug abuse as measured by emergency room episodes decreased. In short, what science and actual experience tell us is that marijuana tends to substitute for the much more dangerous hard drugs like alcohol, cocaine, and heroin.

4. Marijuana suppresses the immune system
Like the studies claiming to show damage to the reproductive system, this myth is based on studies where animals were given extremely high-in many cases, near-lethal-doses of cannabinoids. These results have never been duplicated in human beings. Interestingly, two studies done in 1978 and one done in 1988 showed that hashish and marijuana may have actually stimulated the immune system in the people studied.

5. Marijuana is much more dangerous than tobacco
Smoked marijuana contains about the same amount of carcinogens as does an equivalent amount of tobacco. It should be remembered, however, that a heavy tobacco smoker consumes much more tobacco than a heavy marijuana smoker consumes marijuana. This is because smoked tobacco, with a 90% addiction rate, is the most addictive of all drugs while marijuana is less addictive than caffeine. Two other factors are important. The first is that paraphernalia laws directed against marijuana users make it difficult to smoke sa

 

A little off topic but...

I just noticed this posted by DARTHPIGFEET on the 3rd page:

"Here is what I think about having safe needles available to drugers. If they are stupid enough to use dirty needles they deserve everything they get. All they do anyway is throw it in the damn street for some kid to play with it. The same can be said for used condoms in the street. Innocent people get hurt because of stupidity. So giving these people safe needles defeats for the purpose of them getting off the drugs. Your encouraging the habit. Why make it safe for them to break the law?"


So I sent him the following in a PM. (I'm sorry people, but his statemenst really aggrivated me.)

Sometimes you have some real intelligent stuff to say, and sometimes you say total crap like this:

"Here is what I think about having safe needles available to drugers. If they are stupid enough to use dirty needles they deserve everything they get. All they do anyway is throw it in the damn street for some kid to play with it. The same can be said for used condoms in the street. Innocent people get hurt because of stupidity. So giving these people safe needles defeats for the purpose of them getting off the drugs. Your encouraging the habit. Why make it safe for them to break the law?"

I was a heroin addict for three years. I never ONCE left a needle were a child could get it.

And I hope you realize taking clean needles away from sick people with a disease (yes addiction is a disease) your endangering them by possibly exposing them to AIDS. And it isn't a question of STUPIDITY, it has everything to do with ADDICTION. And when in drug treatment I saw a report (forget by who) that showed herion addicts usually have a very artistic, creative, and expresive personality. Usually above the norm.

I pray to god you NEVER have the experinces needed to show you just how ignorent you make yourself sound went you spout GARBAGE like that.

Now don't get me wrong, I like you, but you really have some bad attitudes, and views, to share sometimes.....

 

heavygear6,

If you look back at my previous posts, almost none of the "facts" you posted has any bearing on my previous comments.

I have never once claimed that marijuana causes brain damage or reproductive harm.

As far as a "gateway" drug goes, studies have also shown that people who use marijuana are up to 85 times more likely to use other illegal drugs than those who do not use marijuana.

WRT the immune system, I notice you cite studies done in 1979 and 1988. The latest studies I have seen were dated much more recently (1998-2001) and contradict the ones you cite. For some of those studies, I know some of the people who performed them. I think I'll accept that data much more readily.

As far as tobacco goes, I have seen several studies, again some where I personally knew the researchers, that have shown that a person smoking 5 joints a week gets as many carginogens as someone smoking a pack a day. This is for a variety of factors, including the fact that marijuana smokers tend to keep the smoke inhaled longer than tobacco smokers.

I have made no claims about marijuana's effects on driving (other than noting mildly impared reflexes), brainwaves or potency.

As you admitted, it does cause short-term memory loss. It is irrelevant if it is only while you have the chemicals in your system. The effect still occurs. I have also noted its tendancy to remain in the body longer (which your post agreed with as well).

Interestingly, your point about the number of chemicals in marijuana only gave a number for how many are in coffee. You provide no data to refute the claim of how many chemicals are in marijuana. (I have only stated that there are many.)

I have also never claimed that anyone has died from a marijuana overdose.

Of all the things you have posted, I notice that you make no mention of the cancer risks brought on by marijuana. Smoking marijuana increases a persons chances of getting several different kinds of cancer, including lung and throat cnacer.

Also, you make no mention of what happens with the combination of alcohol and marijuana. Some studies have shown that the combination of one beer and one joint amplifies the effects of both, making a person as drunk as if they had had more than a dozen beers (depending on the person's body composition). Legalizing marijuana would then require a whole new combination of laws saying exactly what combinations of alcohol and marijuana you would allow. Even small quantities of each could have deadly results in the impairment of a person's actions.

Kimball Kinnison

 

ha!

Mo Mowlam, a former UK minister who dealt with drugs as part of her portfolio has come out for the legalisation of all recreational drugs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_1955000/1955789.stm

 

To HeavyGear:


Look this is my point to what I wrote. Your encouraging the problem or the "Disease" as you rightly put it to go on by contiuning to supply people with the TOOL to do their drugs. It's like handing someone bullets so that they can load it into the gun and fire it at people. You are the getaway driver in a robbery. True your helping these people from getting other terrible diseases, but sometimes people must LEARN THE HARD WAY!!! If getting AIDS or some other terrible infliction is what it takes for them to sober up then fine. For some they simply don't care anyway to use a clean needle.

Plus I hate to assume about your situation, but how do you know you someone else didn't prick their finger on your needle or what not after you passed out or moved on from where you left the needle? There have been plenty of documented cases in which you can walk down some streets in America where you will find used needles and condoms laying in the sidewalks and streets. There have been documented cases in parks in which kids play and the kids find condoms and mistaken them for balloons and guess what they put them to their mouth. So unless you had some Biohazard disposal unit at your house or with you then your putting other peoples life in danger.

So in closing just like my brother call me ignorant but both of us have seen first hand the nasty side of drugs and why I will never support anyone or anything which allows them easier access to the bad habit. I had a close friend who died and two others who lost years because of it, not to mention their health. I look back now and said instead of letting them go away and do whatever they wanted I should have kicked all three of their butts and forced them to sober up. Heck I would have signed off to have them committed, or put in jail. I didn't do anything and just said well let them kill themselves and one did and the other two finally wised up after the funeral.

I've seen the terrible effects and like I said before the harder we make it for them, the more expensive we make it, the more consequences we throw at them the harder it will be for them to get their hands on the drugs. It should be like a never ending labyrnth of drug abusers to get their drugs. Finally reaching the point to say "it's not worth it".

So sorry if I pissed you off, but I will be closed minded and will never show a smile in the face of pure evil which is drugs. I never will and I will fight to make sure that my friends and family never do it, and I would rather see them locked up then doing that filthy junk.

Sincerely Darthpigfeet

 

heavy, let's not fall to baiting. Keep it as civil as possible, don't fall into the trap of biting on things meant to aggrivate you.


Sorry, I hate to disappoint y'all, btw, but I'm a guy, not a gal. I think my fiance might take offense by me being called a chick


and, again, Sorry. I didn't realize you were ok with medicinal use. Your previous post read to me in an entirely different way than it was meant, apparently. I too despire recreational use of ANY drug...even NyQuil.

 

To DARTHPIGFEET:

"sorry if I pissed you off" - you didn't, you just made me uneasy. A little aggitated maybe.

"but sometimes people must LEARN THE HARD WAY" - What you are neglecting to remember is you are not only putting these people at risk with that attitude, but you are putting everyone at risk.

Example - A drug user, that has no access to clean needles, uses a dirty one by necessity (yes necessity*). This user now has HIV. A year later, this person cuts thier finger picking up bottles and cans for redemption money to buy drugs. Now this person continues to pick up stuff, not even realizing that thier finger is cut. The blood gets on the cans. Now at the store the machine doesn't take one these bottles or cans, the store doesn't carry that brand. So this HIV infected can gets placed on the garbage can lid. Now a store employee comes to pick up the garbage. She's been in the back handling wooden crates and pallets all day. She has abbrasions on her hands. Maybe even a few cuts. She picks up the can, and now she's infected. Now she's no model, but she is very cute, and she likes male company. So a few months down the road shes sleeping with her new boyfriend. Now shes a self concious kinda person, shes well educated and responsible, she uses condems. But this time it breaks, and since he likes the real thin ones, they don't even realize it. Now this guy is a real jerk, he has four girls he's playin all at once. And most of the time they don't use any protection.

See the VICIOUS CIRCLE forming here? All because a drug user didn't have access to a CLEAN needle. And using that needle had nothing to do with intelligence, or education, or self presevation. Addiction throws all that stuff out the window. I am a good person. I protect myself and everyone around me. I use protection when in any new relationship. I used clean needles, and never shared them. I carried them in a plastic case, and returned them to the hospital or needle exchange. And I never EVER left them out, anywhere. I can't say the same for others, in fact I saw some stuff that would make you hair curl. But for the most part every body I new took similar actions. The point is users do need safe and legal access to clean needles.

*Herion addiction will grab you and smear you accross the ground like a bug on a windsheild. It doesn't care about you, your family, or anything for that matter. Its a girl in a red dress, a sunny afternoon, a warm blanket, the embrace of a loved one. It will any and all of these things. And as soon as the drug stops blocking the pain receptors in your brain, its an 80 foot tall dragon. And it will devour you.



This following situation may not apply to you. But it does to more people than you think. The events leading up to addiction are only a possible course of events. They are intended to show how the addiction could occour, because addiction is not instant, it takes time to effect your endourphine level. Endorphines are your bodies own natural pain killer. And pay more attention to the effects, not how the actuall addiction occours.

Imagine this - You are at a party, a few friends (or even strangers) decide to "help" you loosen up a bit. They slip some herion into your cigarette (or in your weed). You don't even know. Now a few days later your at a friends, your the adventures type, and up for new experiences, so when you see a good friend actually snorting some powder it sparks your curiosity. You approach them and ask them why they would ever do that. They hand you the straw and say "find out for yourself". Now this is a person you trust. You grew up whith them. So you say what the hell, just this one time. After all, you don't ever party, what could it hurt. Wow, its good. You really like it. Its so warm and pleasent. So mellow. You think man, now I understand why. So you go back to your life. That weekend you run into this friend again, you think one more time aint gonna kill ya. You just wont do it after that, at least, not for a few wee

 

Back on topic (sorta)

I had a friend from the age of about 7 years that was very close to me. When we were about 14 he started doing oppiates (heroine, opium, etc.) and got hooked. He went through junkie life until this year. We are 21 years old now. He got off using the methadome treatment. His physical addition was broke. He had gotten clean before, but always went back. One of our other friends took him into his home once he was clean and was trying to help him out. The friend who took him in was one of my pot buddies. When he moved in with him, he had been clean a couple of weeks from a stay in the county jail, and started the methadome treatment. Once he was better we turned him on to weed. He had smoked before, but didn't like it. We found that he had only tried while on the heroine. He tried it by himself, and it was grand. He was now just a stoner and not a junkie headed to death. Well, as time went by it took more pot to achieve what he needed to feel to compare to the heroine life. He couldn't keep enough weed or quality to do what he needed it to do. He told me that he lost faith in weed, that it was not like heroine. Heroine never lets you down. If you do it, you get high. So he quit smoking. He said it was not worth it. After a few weeks of sobriety, he's in prison. He went back, and they say it was worse than before. If only weed had been legal, he might would have had a chance. This friend of mine had a hard early life. Bad family problems, abuse, and so forth. He became trapped, and when he found a way out that worked for him, he couldn't get to it. Weed may have it's effects, but given some of the alternatives, it's not that bad.

Some people need a avenue to release themselves. I do. Some people don't. I couldn't imagine life without coffee, or weed. Weed is not bad for me, and that is my desicion to make for myself.

It is actually food if you think about it. I eat it, and it is good. Jesus said "I have made all food clean, take and eat" in his vision about the unclean foods from the old testemet. So if Jesus has made it clean, who can argue?

 

"If you do it, you get high" - This is not true at all. After awhile it was all I could do to stop from being sick, let alone get high. Very rarely after that did I get high on it. I wasn't even trying to get high. I just wanted to stop being sick.

 

What you are neglecting to remember is you are not only putting these people at risk with that attitude, but you are putting everyone at risk

So, basically, just because some people lack the strength of will to say 'no' to someone pushing drugs on people, they should all be illegal? I can see why with some of the harder drugs, but with Marijuana, it's not necessary. Legalizing marijuana would force people to take responsibility for their own decisions and, if need be, suffer the negative consequences of their actions. It would also benifit those ill with cancer and glaucoma and those wanting a bit of extra "spice" in their lives.

Oh yeah, I just thought of this: marijuana also speeds up people's metabolism. Could it be the miracle diet drug?

 

Ah, you are refering to munchies no?

 

To give you background on my disdain for recreational use. My aunt (who killed herself in jail) got her two kids both smoking marijuana when they were 6 years old. They didn't become sober until they were in their late 30's.

 

I'm sorry Kessle_Runner, but that is just cruel, wrong, and immoral.

 

Yes Kessel, but that doesnt happen to evryone, not to be rude but it sounds like there were worse problems behind the marijuana use with that part of the family.

 

I agree with alchohol is the greatter gateway drug.

But i say if you legalize it, tax it one hundred percent.
spend 50% of taxes on drug addiction rehabilitation.
the other 50% on paying of the deficit

 

well, idealy all or most revenue from artifical stimulents like cigarettes, alcohol, weed or whatever should be devoted towads rehab/remedial healthcare, rather than just going straight into the general fund...

 

Drugs are kind of stupid. You feel emotions based on memories and experiences you have. Taking the drugs only cheats you of your ability to derive such pleasure in actually doing things, going through experiences.

But, it all depends. I honestly believe pot is on the same level of "bad" as alchohol, in different ways, and in many many ways, the lesser of both evils. I can buy into the "drugs aren't the answer" and "using drugs can be dangerous, in SO many ways," but I believe some drugs are worse than others, and if we as a society find whisky and scotch acceptable methods of "loosening up" at the end of a hard day, I can't find anything wrong with the working man lighting up a doobie every now and then after a hard day at the office. Just don't let the kids do it until they're 21. (But for real, they'll be starting at an average around the time they are 15, pretty much like alcohol I believe. Just like it is now anyway.)

All it means is that parents can finally get high too.

 

Okay for those on the east coast turn your TV's to HBO and watch the show called Small Town Ecstasay. For those on the West Coast you have a couple of hours before it comes on. It's on until 12:30 am

Anyway I cannot believe what I'm seeing on this program. Some documentary crew is following this father who is going to Raves, and is letting his 13 year old and 15 year old go to Raves. This so called father is also selling Ecstasay and Pot to kids and is giving it to his damn kids. His one son who is like 18 or 19 is a dope dealer, and you should see these kids and the way they are reacting to all these drugs in their system. It's really scary.

Now the parents are divorced and the mother didn't know what is going on, until her 13 and 15 came home from the weekend getaway with their father and she found out. Had him arrested. They found Pot, and Ecstasay pills.

This has to be one of the saddest things I've ever seen in my life.

So I think you should tune in and see what this stuff is all about and just how people not only take this Pot, but mix it with other stuff which could be mixed with Coccaine.

Okay the one son gets a test done on his brain, and he has a brain of a 45 year old, not a 19 or 20 year old kid. It's sad, because the doctor is saying if he stops now then there might be no problems in the future however if he did it for another 5 years then the brain is gone. The son then tells the doctor before he takes this test that he "doesn't even want to do pot anymore, because it lowers your ambitions and you don't want to do nothing. You just sit around and do nothing" that is exactly what Pot does and this is coming from addict of the stuff who has had enough of smoking it.

This so terrible for the younger kids who are in the middle of trying to love their father, and knowing he is putting them in danger with what he does. It's sad also because the oldest son has now come home from the Army and is now taking on the father figure role.

 

I saw the special. It didn't necessarily change my views, because I already have such strong emotional reactions to this subject. However it was VERY difficult to watch because of the family history I am carrying with me.


sleazo, I know there were other things going on with that part of the family, but that doesn't change the fact that exposure to drugs, especially at a young age, can do incredible damage to a future.

 

I love how the 2nd oldest son is at the party and is doing all this junk and doesn't want the father to give the younger kids the money to go rolling and the father does it anyway. Infact that is the one kid who got out of that stuff at the end. Sad just sad how a father would expose his own kids to that stuff. Just sick really.

 

is it illegal to smoke marijuana even if it is for RELIGIOUS purposes?

 

Yup. But I think American Indian's can still smoke peote' (sp?) if they want to on their reservations.

 

Yup. But I think American Indian's can still smoke peote' (sp?) if they want to on their reservations.

i assure you, there are no Indians SMOKING peyote.