RE: NC-17 Links and other unspoken rules of FanFiction

Okay, this is not the first time I have gotten complaints on the matter, and to hear of it more than once is a bit on the troublesome side.

I have gotten messages about authors providing links to websites containing slash, NC-17, and other restricted reading material that we do not allow in the FanFiction forums. While it is quite common for most authors to know about the rules regarding the posting of actual slash fiction, it might not be that common knowledge that links, links in signatures to sites containing, or links in username bios containing such material are not allowed either. There are many users, young and old alike, that find these links offensive, obtrusive, and in some cases offending to the rules of the forum. No matter if you post a simple warning in a thread, no matter if there is a warning on the site itself cautioning that there is NC-17 material ahead, such links are not proper and should be removed.

If you have such links contained anywhere in your signature, fanfiction, or biography, I politely ask that you remove them as soon as possible. If you happen to come across such a link or content in a thread, please inform a moderator. While moderators cannot see every username and investigate every thread for content, with your help we can crack down on this problem (and yes, people, it is a problem). If you are asked to remove a link from a thread, signature, or bio and fail to do so in a proper manner, the appropriate action may be to ban you for a certain amount of time. I, for one, will give you a chance to change your error, but will not bend if you fail to take advantage of a fair amount of leniency in the matter.

As a matter of special note: please use this thread to speak of matters you wish to voice about FanFiction and the Writers Resource forum, so that I and the other moderators watching the forum can get a groundwork laid for some very basic rules for everyone to learn about.

 

Hmm...

Talon Squad Leader, I suppose you find your signature line about the ban button cute. Quite honestly, I find it chilling and rather more offensive and obtrusive than any of the links you mention in your post. It's ironic that a story that warns of the danger of such an attitude has inspired a forum that seems to be drifting toward that very attitude.

You know, if every story or link that could offend anyone in even the smallest way is banned, these forums are going to get pretty small and bland quickly.

I think it needs to be said that there can be complaints on the other side of the issue too. Not every one of us is interested in writing or reading stories for 8-12 year olds.

My point of view comes from living in a city where we've learned to tolerate differences without necessarily approving of them. And before you cite protecting the kids, let me tell you, on Mardi Gras Day, it's common for families to run into people that cross dress, wear only body paint, or have false body parts on the outside of their clothing, and they don't seem to think the kids are ruined for life upon sight of these people. It's not like these things are unexpected, we all pretty much know the drill, so the parents could have kept the kids home if they chose to. So yes, folks can do their thing without getting all bent out of shape about the ones doing something else, and all these points of view can intersect peacefully. It's shame that others can't learn to do this. I guess that's why there are riots when certain other cities have tried to celebrate Mardi Gras.

I realize that it's more difficult to adopt tolerance and responsiblity for one's own viewpoint as second nature. The human race is still working on it. But here's your chance to show that we as fans can develop in that direction. Come on, we all know a nitwit can just make a set of rigid rules and hit a ban button. It takes a lot more time, intelligence, and education to deal with issues any other way. I challenge everyone who posts or is an admin to rise to the opportunity that's here for you now. I think we can work through this in a less heavy handed and oppressive way.

I suggest it start with everyone taking responsibility for the links they choose to follow. If you see it's something you don't like, just go back. That's all you have to do. That's what the back button is for. I promise you, no matter what you see, you don't have to let it get to you. There are hundreds of thousands of other stories out there. I'm sure you'll find one that's perfect for you. If not, write the story you want to see. That's what I did. In the meantime, you don't need to restrict what links anyone else has access to. Maybe I'll read that slash story, or maybe I won't, but it should still be my choice, not someone else's.

The underlying emotion behind the desire for these kind of restrictions is fear. Trust in yourself and your strength of character. If you're old enough to be reading these boards, you're old enough to deal with these issues for yourself. You can handle it without the protection of admins. Don't let the fear win! That, my friends, is of the darkside.

 

who pee'd in who's corn flakes this morning huh this place has rules, big deal. follow them or dont. if you choose not to that is your decision but you will take what coming as well. I understand that but then I enforce rules every day as a security guard. I do see the need to bend rules but also there are places that dont have these rules you dont like these go there. Im cranky and I better go to bed before I get more upset and worked up then I am already.
dealing with idiots in the last two hours of a 12 hour shift would make you cranky too.

 

JazzyJedi: That?s all very good and fine, but you?re not the one making the rules here. To put it bluntly, these are not our boards. Whenever you make a post, a message appears just above the post button, reading ?Please read the Terms Of Service before posting. By pressing the POST button below, you are agreeing to the TOS.? The following are extracts from the TOS (Terms of Service):

User acknowledges and agrees that use of the Jedi Council Forums is a privilege, not a right

User agrees not to post material that is knowingly false and/or defamatory, misleading, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, that otherwise violates any law, or that encourages conduct constituting a criminal offense.

Basically, this is what I said above. We can post whatever we like, as long as we don?t post anything the administration staff finds to be inappropriate. Also, it is my understanding that one of the primary reasons the JC is PG-13 is legal in nature; it?s a liability thing. If you?re not interested in writing and reading stories that it would be safe for a 8-12 year old, then go elsewhere. No one is forcing you to remain here.

TSL is not the one who makes the rules, but he?s been charged with enforcing them. If you have a problem with the rules set out and don't want to leave, go into Communications and make a proposal.

 

T.S.L. is one of the site's managers, not just a member. That is why he posted this.

What he says goes. Not just because he says but because they are tf.n & jc rules.

He has a ban button... and the power to use it.

(Did you forget that line from ANH? 'This battle station is now the ultimate power...')

I think it's rather cute myself.

OMG am I agreeing with GtG

 

It's all well and good for you to disagree with the rules of this site. You have that right as a human being, and we're not trying to abridge that right. However, this is not the place to question those rules.

Those rules apply not only to the Jedi Council Forums, but to all of TheForce.Net. As a reviewer for the fan fiction archive, I've seen stories that are wonderful rejected from the juried archive due to violence, sexual content, and other material deemed inappropriate for a site that keeps to a conservative PG-13 rating. These decisions are tough, but we have to follow the rules that we've been given. As such, links to sites that contain NC-17 material is considered inappropriate.

Please remember that this site is frequented by children under the age of thirteen. The rule of thumb that I have used in writing and in beta-reading is this: Would you want your ten-year-old child, sibling, cousin, grandchild, niece, or nephew to read this? Would you be upset if a site that is supposed to be clean had a link to such material and the aforementioned child found it?

 

Wow- a funny and offensive signature at the same time. I thought I never see the day.

Everyone actually has good points, from TSL to JazziJedi. JazziJedi does make a serious, serious point though: what is offensive?

Now we know the TOS has a listing of what is offensive, but it fails to mention an actual set of instances, nor does it say that each case of wrong is based on a case by case instance; they should make that clear in the TOS. Then apparently TF.N is relying on the Moderators best judgment here, which is well and good if there isn't a trace of bias involved, like signatures that say 'I have a ban button, and I suggest WE use it'.

I know better: TSL is a stand up guy and others can vouch for his sincerity and I think he will make a fair moderator. However for those who don't know him is going to look at that statement and get frosted. I'm sure to get PM's and emails about it very soon and I'm not a Mod, so I suggest those folks PM TSL and ask him politely to reconsider that statement in his signature. Like I said I think it's funny, but I think it's troubling at the same time.

Of course folks know my stance about adults keeping an eye on their underage kids on line. I won't argue you that here, but I will say this for TF.N: is their a legality problem with the TOS in regards to under 18 persons clicking the Post Button? I think that has to be asked in Communications for sure.

 

OMG am I agreeing with GtG

Don't worry; when people start agreeing with me, I get scared.



Offensive is whatever the moderators say is offensive. However, if you get banned or your topic gets locked, feel free to appeal the judgment. After all, opinions of what is offensive and what is not vary from person to person. That?s why we have a communications forum and a process for getting un-banned. Just be prepared to accept the outcome. However, I think that NC-17 content and/or links can generally assumed to be obscene, profane, or sexually oriented; otherwise they wouldn?t be rated NC-17.


Also, I fail to see what?s so offensive about TSL?s signature. He?s certainly not the only mod with such a signature.
Take Lord Banes for example:

Mod X: I think by now you should know we're all mad with power and loving every minute of it.
User Y: Is this supposed to make me feel good?
Mod X: No...I guess it isn't. Mint?

Or Vertical?s

Have ban-button, will travel

Or even Mar17swgirl?s

I'm mod Mar, the almighty Sithly Dudette. Fear me, all ye lesser beings!

Yes, they?re pointing out that they are mod?s and we are mere mortals However, I don?t think that there is anything malicious about the way they are doing it. They?re making jokes, jokes that fall well within PG-13 limits.

 

Well like I said I think is humorous but there will be folks that don't see it that way and therefore will not go to mods at all; even the ones that don't have those types of signatures. Those folks will look at those signatures and say 'well, we see the 'norm' is alive and well'. The signatures will work against the Mods that do want to enforce the rules, etc. They (posters) will see them either not taking the responsibility seriously enough, or they will see it as a power grab that can potentially be polluted by kliq bias. Mods/Admins are not Gods; they are Volunteers of Neutrality given a privilege, not a right. Misconception leads to non-communication.

Like I said I don't necessarily think TSL, Mar, Julie, and a few other Mods are like that, but what I know and you know GtG, and what others know, are two different things entirely. There has to be some long standing assurances if folks want to feel comfortable here with the Mods, especially with transplants from JCC, or newbies to the boards.

I paid a visit to the Mod/Poster thread at Communications and the signatures of those mods were 'less threatening' than their responses there.

 

Guess I'll post my 2 cents worth also.

I don't think it's a matter of trying to determine what's going to offend people. With society the way it is today (American society, at least) I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who get offended by the use of "grey" instead of "gray". What can be definitely determined however, are the terms of service that go along with this board. What's permissable and what's not is clearly outlined. Being a father myself, I'd want to know my child could come to this site and I wouldn't have to worry about her being exposed to anything harmful.

That being said, I feel there should be a place for the more adult oriented elements of the GFFA, just not this particular board. How that would be accomplished, who knows? Things like sex do exist in the GFFA, we all know that. Otherwise, how would you explain the kids of Han & Leia or the offspring of anyone or anything? That doesn't mean we need to read a play by play account of the conception process or extremely graphic depictions of blood, gore & violence on this board.

There used to be a site of SW erotica, violence, etc. (everything being addressed in this thread) and there were warnings everywhere saying it was an NC-17 site. What happened to that site, I don't know. I went there once and lost the link.

Anyway, I agree this board should remain as PG-13 as possible. If you don't agree with the Terms of Service when you sign up for the board, don't post here. It's that simple. I haven't seen anyone banned for a first offense. From what I've seen, the mods are pretty fair and even handed. If you're unsure about something you want to post, get a second opinion.

 

GtG, you mentioned my *cough*humble*cough* sig... sweet...

Actually, I think that if someone doesn't see that my sig is a joke (even with that big smiley in it), then they have a very poor sense of humor (if any).

As was previously said, these forums have certain rules. People join them willingly, therefore they must abide with these rules. If someone doesn't agree with these rules, they're free to leave, no one holds them here forcefully.

Some users complain against these rules and say that they should be changed. Yeah, from a certain point of view, if a majority of the users agree on a change, it should be possible to make the change to the rules.

BUT. These rules are not set by us (the admins and mods). They're set by the owners of this site (and forums), and we all must abide with them whether we like it or not. Or we can leave.

To get back on the topic (the NC-17 links). If you see a link to such sites, PM a mod immediately. When such thing occurs for the first time, we give out warning. The second time it's a ban. Period.

 

GtG, you mentioned my *cough*humble*cough* sig... sweet...




I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who get offended by the use of "grey" instead of "gray"

What can I say? I aim to displease.


Otherwise, how would you explain the kids of Han & Leia or the offspring of anyone or anything?

The Stork brought them, just like the Stork brings everyone. Honestly, I?m surprised that someone your age doesn?t know where babies come from!


There used to be a site of SW erotica, violence, etc.

There still are a couple of such sites. While I can?t provide you with links, I?d suggest searching through Google or Altavista if you?re looking for that sort of stuff. (Note: I?m curious, is what I just said acceptable? If not, I?ll edit)

 

TSL = teh tact.

TSL's sig = teh neato.

 

Topic: Signatures -

Jazzy, my signature is not meant in a hostile way, nor is my posting here in the forums. I love to help out and would not be posting here or in anywhere in the forums if my attitude truly was reflected in my signature. My signature is an oxymoron of sorts - I am a pretty laid back guy and will give you a chance to defend yourself properly. The signature is not meant to be offensive or threatening, but rather what I thought to be a cool reference to being a manager and a Star Wars fan here. Ninety-nine percent of those in the forums that I speak with, know of, and come across find it to be an amusing and clever reference to being a manager and a fan. If it offends, I'm sorry.

Topic: NC-17 Links -

This is a problem. Despite the fact I like to be a bit liberal in moderating the forums, I will not be easy to deal with on this issue. NC-17 links, no matter in what form they present themselves in, are not allowed. Please report any links you happen to see to a moderator, as we would like to deal with them as soon as possible. And I whole heartedly agree with what has been said here on the topic of such links being present in the forums.

 

GtG- I hadn't even caught that when I typed it . It was the only homonym that came to mind, specificaly regarding differently spelled words with the same meaning. I do know where babies come from- Sears. Actually, if that were true, I probably would've tried to exchange mine for a quieter model several times over .

One possible solution to the NC-17 link problem that just came to mind, is the Private Message feature. If you have a "naughty" link and you want to share it with someone of age, just use PM them. That way, you can share the link, yet not have it readily available to the minds of those easily corrupted.

 

Or better yet, craigrr, they can use their own e-mail or IM program rather than the board's private message system.

 

Yeah, that is a much better idea. Sorry, it's late and my brain is already in bed .

 

No problem, your idea in fact spurred the addition of my post, so it is all good.