Lit Reading NJO...Again

The empire was far more militarized, far more willing to use superweapons as well as biological agents, and would not have been swayed by bad faith Vong diplomacy and would have reacted harshly to Vong agents stirring unrest and rebellion.

Would it have taken casualties? Yes. Would it have won? Most likely yes.

My rant was not about the Vong as much as Palpatine being interpreted as simply a practical hardass "doing what had to be done". The Vong were rivals, but it's my impression from the overall lore Palpatine's knowledge of them was extremely limited, if they remotely factored into his thinking it was probably-"something to keep Thrawn loyal", and "future enemy to crush" not “Menacing threat, I must unite the galaxy to fight" as though he were some sort of antihero.

The latter interpretation grates and infuriates me to no end*-completely misunderstanding Palpatine and the Vong-both their appendant themes and roles in the narrative.

*Also because it has spread so far in the fandom, and seems utterly immune to correction.

 

Im re-reading Vector Prime for like the 3rd or 4th time. last time i read it was like 17 years ago. im planning on going through some of the New jedi order books before i head into the Fate of the Jedi books and the finale Crucible

 

I disagree. The Empire might have more ships and troops but they are also HATED by large sections of the galaxy. Wookies, Mon Cal, even some human worlds, would all work with the Vong to bring down the Empire.

People make the mistake of thinking the Empire would know about the Vong in the say time as the NR did and that it would react at all. The Empire would be wracked by battles, everything Nom was doing to start rebellions would have much more success, the Peace Brigade would have much more success. The Empire had no buy in from large sections of the galaxy and not much loyalty from many Moffs.

Large sections of the galaxy would join the Vong because the Empire is just that bad.

 

If the Vong came during the height of the Galactic Civil War, then a Rebel-Vong Alliance could have happened, just like the Rebel-Nagai team-up (though probably not ending as well, unless the Silentium showed up hot on their heels like the Tofs). But if the Vong showed up only after Palps had won the Galactic Civil War and defeated the Rebellion (i.e., if Luke had failed or if the Force had not risen in him to restore Anakin and help defeat the Sith), then a Galactic Empire with one or more Death Stars could probably have defeated the Vong. A full-on, Galaxy-Gun toting Dark Empire could have made quick work of the Vong.

On a purely pragmatic, utilitarian, or amoral calculation (a la Thrawn), the Empire was a pretty good bet against the Vong. (That was not at all Palps' motivation, though - totally a satanic megalomaniac; neither he nor Milton's Lucifer are anti-heroes, no matter how many Romantics or YouTuber posers say otherwise.)

However, if one has any faith that the Force seeks balance, or that the moral arc of the universe bends towards justice, then one could only conclude (as per Leia) that Palpatine and his cronies were at war with Life Itself and thus their Empire was doomed. Heck, even a "never tell me the odds" trust in Luck (courtesy of Captain Solo) was enough to conclude that the hubristic, super-weapon, "Nostril of Palpatine" mentality would always fail sooner or later.

 

And still reading Balance Point, ch. 21

What do you think this last sentence of Tsavong Lah should have been?

I was also confused about the military rank relationship between Admiral Dizzlewit and Admiral Darez Wuht. Only a look into Wookieepedia told me, that Dizzlewit is the nickname of Admiral Darez Wuht. That could have been carved out better, for instance in the farewell scene between Wuht and his wife. And was there anything said about his fate later?

 

Im re-reading the New Jedi Order books this summer and currently reading Dark Tide 1.

these old books are still great. i find it amusing that the Jedi are being blamed for a screw up from Vector Prime where the Rebellion senate members scoff at hearing about the Yuuzhan vong.

anyone know when Mara got some disease that was affecting her? I suppose from some previous old Star war comic series or something?

 

Nope - the disease appears for the first time in Vector Prime. No source published before that mentions it, and Survivor's Quest, published after the NJO but set about a year or so before the NJO, has no sign of it.

 

you sure? thought there was an old star wars comic series that explains how she got that disease. I know theres a series that has Luke and mara's wedding thats about all i know

 

In NJO, it's later revealed that:

Spoiler

Nom Anor infected her.

He wasn't at the wedding. He does have an early comic appearance (Crimson Empire) but Mara wasn't in that.

 

@XandertheWise,
At least I know two fanfictions, which cover up the Events of Monor II. But to be on the safe side, just go to Wookieepedia and search there for Monor II, Agapos X, Nom Anor or the Sunesi. When you find your comic there in the source appendix, great! But I strongly presume you are confusing that with the comic Crimson Empire, where Nom Anor showed up for the first time.

I remember that when I read about Monor II in Vector Prime for the first time, I always thought there will come something about this later. Arrived in Balance Point meanwhile, where Mara had her first big confrontation with Nom Anor and where she is recalling and even mentioning Monor II, I had the bad feeling that I had missed something in the previous five volumes of NJO - and so I went back and searched there desperately and in vain. And I strongly assume that was not the only one.

 

The events of Monor II were never shown, instead being told in Vector Prime and Balance Point after the fact.

It's also confirmed in The Essential Reader's Companion on Pg. 374 where it says:

Mara Jade Skywalker is described as suffering a mysterious alien disease - a coomb spore infestation planted by Nom Anor at a previous encounter. Readers looking for that story will not find it; it is an event intended to have happened between books, prior the events of Vector Prime.

That's what has caused the confusion.

 

been re-reading Dark Tide II. i kind of felt bad for Elegos but he really underestimated that Shedea Vong character. Thinking he could try to act like Thrawn to understand Vong culture etc but Elegos had it coming i guess but still messed up that they had to turn his skeleton into solid gold or whatever.

 

I'm not sure he underestimated Shedao Shai or thought that he could make a breakthrough to Yuuzhan Vong culture that would head off the war. I think he thought it was worth attempting even if it was a long shot.

 

yes he did underestimate shedao. Shedao at the time wanted his ancestor's skeleton bones back and thats all he cared about. Elegos went in blindly as a fool. trying to act like Thrawn in a way in my opinion. as soon as Shedao put Elegos in that pain ritual thats when Elegos should have known better

 

The Vong were very good at instigating insurgencies and getting opportunists to aid them. Notably, the Empire fell to an insurgency just like that.

 

@XandertheWise,
Thrawn meanwhile wouldn't have gone to the Yuuzhan Vong on his own. He would have caught some soldiers of the enemy, interrogate them with that black ball droids including truth serum and after finding the weak spot of Shedao Shai, he would have lured him into a trap with no escape. Maybe with such a prepared building as Corran Horn did indeed.

 

well look how well Corran did when challenging Shedao. Look how well that turned out eh? he made it worse where he and those archeologists just had to go dig up those bones

 

@XandertheWise,
It was a lose-lose dilemma for Corran Horn, because either way, Tsavong Lah had decided already to get Ithor destroyed. So there was nothing he could have done and the bones carried with him were just made devoid of any meaning and further use. For Tsavong Lah wasn't known to the NR that time, the blame was all Corran Horn's.

 

Though given that the Vong were backing the empire in that conflict - see Nom Anor in Crimson Empire - I wonder how good they really were at that.

 

Nom supporting a council after dark empire does not mean they supported the Empire in general.

 

Hmm, when with supporting you mean just not attacking, that may be true. The Yuuzhan Vong had already their sleepers there at Bastion and elsewhere in the Remnant Empire - waiting and abiding their time to unmask and to topple their infidel imperial superiors. Also a kind of support from a certain angle of view.

 

My take on Nom Anor in Crimson Empire was that he was fomenting instability more than actually supporting the Empire - by 11-13 ABY, the tide had turned enough that the Imperials were the insurgents against the NR. It would be interesting to see Vong involvement in the Rebellion, has any source ever indicated that that happened?

 

@RogueWhistler,
Regarding your last sentence: in fanfictions only.

 

I'm actually thinking the Old Republic could have taken on the Yuuzhan Vong. Sure, they were demilitarized, but as we saw in the prequels, that changed very quickly. Not to mention that they had the might of the entire Jedi Order, and if the galaxy had not been torn apart by war and Palaptine's machinations, I'd say they could've won.

 

I disagree. The republic pre clone wars would have been overrun. There were more Jedi, but they were on average-weaker. The Vong would have exploited every local grievance and the intendant class would have stirred up even more brushfire wars.

The Vong fleets would have smashed the judicial forces and any sector or local defense units, with only the best of the Jedi putting up any respectable defense.

Before the clone wars-before there was a galactic army and navy, is the best time to invade. The senate would be divided and ineffectual(and likely thoroughly infiltrated), mega corporations would use their battle droids to defend their own holdings, the Hutts would hunker down and probably sell the Vong as much intel as possible to prepare(and probably get invaded anyway for double crossing the Vong).

They’d cut through the galaxy circa 25 BBY or 50 BBY like a hot knife through butter. The old republic would not have the time nor the institutional infrastructure and knowledge to rebuild the military; not until the Vong had reached the galactic south.

TLDR: The post Ruusan pre clone wars era is the best time for the Vong to invade, I genuinely think they’d conquer the galaxy in as little as two decades if they invaded anywhere from say 900 BBY to 24 BBY.