Lit Reading NJO...Again

I hadn't see it like this but it makes totally sense that someone, who met so many sacrifices on his behalf feels more than guilty to make amends for it finally.

Actually neither Corran Horn, nor Shedao Shai did know, what would follow after Shai's death. Shai had no idea what Deign Lian had planned with Tsavong Lah, or what Tsavong Lah had planned all alone. And when Tsavong Lah knew about this duel to come - and if he already this time had intended to cast a bad light upon the Jedi - with any outcome of the duel he'd won this round. Corran thought the duel would spare a big battle - saving many peopl's lifes and he thought Shedao Shai to be noble like himself. Shedao Shai just hadn't the chance to prove that afterwards.

I was also positively astounded to see Borsk over Ithor - for me it was the first move in his character change towards becoming a better Bothan. Something like that I would have wished for Thrackan Sal-Solo in Bloodlines fifteen years later.

 

Pretty much, my reading of Anakin Solo is that his need to make these sacrifices "worth it" and for them to "mean something" meant he had to be the hero and take risks and save everyone and for a while he does, until he doesn't.

I never said it was on purpose. If Corran thought that (which he likely did), then Corran was wrong. But saving the planet was secondary, Corran wanted to kill Shai, to get revenge. And he did and the unintended cost of that was the death of Ithor. It all comes back to Corran wanting revenge.

Into Agents of Chaos, it is interesting to see how different authors write characters, here Borsk is somewhat defending the Jedi and seems reasonable, also Han is now getting his character arc. "it belongs in a museum" how droll, though "a name I haven't heard in a long time" was a bit much. I mostly enjoy Luceno's continuity weaving, I like the Han Solo trilogy so the name Vykk Draygo means something to me, but most people it means nothing. The first space battle was short but decent.

 

The New Jedi Order novels is the true Sequel Trilogy for me a story that any fan should read although i also like Legacy of the Force and Legacy comics i like the Yuuzhan Vong better they feel like unique Villains in Star Wars

 

The Vong are unique, they are made to be, it was very controversial. Looking back on it I like what they brought, I am not sad they got a rest post NJO, but I wish more of the fallout of the war had been followed up upon.

I am nearly done with the book. Droma can be a little annoying with taking Hans lines, the shouts to Indy are largely empty, though they do fit mostly. I also really like Chicken Vergre roosting on the bed. The stuff with the peace brigade agents was good, also the Vong reaction and scrambling was a lot of fun, I like it when plots crash into each other and now Han has the Agents of Chaos.

It is also interesting to see people in universe speculating on the origins of the Vong.

Also interesting to see the IR still having forces in the war a Ord Mantell.

 

I honestly don't know what the NJO being the "true sequel trilogy" even means. It's not picking up where the movies left off, it's not a trilogy. It's arguably more of a sequel to the Thrawn Duology, which itself is multiple degrees separate from the plot of the movies.

Just think it's a bizarre and unnecessary comparison.

 

Hu? The NJO is the sequel to the OT. It follows the story of the Grandkids and them dealing with their challenges and a new threat.

it is has a VERY limited connection to any of the thrawn books beyond some characters.

Star Wars is a generational Saga, the Prequels make that clear. The NJO is the story about the Children of Han and Leia coming into their own and dealing with these issues remember it is Jacen who saves the galaxy, with Luke playing support.

Does episode 5 pick up where 4 left off? Kinda, but it goes from party after the death star goes boom, to "Rebels on the run", heck 3 to 4 has more connection, though a decent amount of that, Tarkin and the Death Star, comes from one scene at the very end.

heck even 6 to 7 is a major disconnect.

Calling NJO an (or the) ST makes sense, way MORE sense than calling the Thrawn Trilogy an ST.

 

fair, though to me the NJO feels more like a sequel/capstone to the EU itself, than as a part of the movie saga. I was not saying it was a sequel to the Thrawn Duology, just that it's more of a sequel to it than to the movies. While yes the movies are a generational saga, it is a saga of different generations in conflict with the same looming problem, while the NJO deliberately brought in an entirely different looming problem which is as alien as possible.

It also feels like a weird and exhausting thing to say, and I'm saying this as someone who has never seen any of the sequels more than once since they came out and has no strong feelings about them.

A story can be enjoyed without making a strained comparison to another unrelated story that results in calling 19 novels a "true sequel trilogy", something which the NJO never tried to be and never was. It comes across less like wanting to actually talk about the NJO, and more like desperately wanting to bring up the sequel trilogy as if by some nigh religious calling.

 

The NJO was a capstone to Star Wars at the time. After RotS came out, in stuff like the Ultimate visual guide put the NJO in the same level as the movies, star wars was all the one story.

I disagree with the idea it is less a sequel to a couple books (which have a pretty minor impact on the NJO, all they deal with is why the Empire isn't the enemy), rather than all the other stuff NJO was building off.

Also the heroes in NJO are fighting the same enemy the darkside, it is just in a different form and they have to do it while dealing with the Vong too.

The NJO was meant to be a new start with some new enemies, like the PT.

If you don't care then why did you comment?
The NJO was very much a sequel to the movies though.
yes people like to put the ST down, but at least the NJO has some themeatic legs to stand on unlike people who call the Thrawn Trilogy the true ST, when all it has going for it is timeline.

 

I think if you're talking EU things that seem more akin to what a sequel trilogy would be or is, NJO really isn't it. Neither is the Thrawn trilogy imo. A lot of people like to point to that one.

The Shadow Academy arc of YJK is more sequel trilogy imo. Then I would skip to LOTF. I say this because the generational saga aspect isn't the only thing that makes a Saga trilogy a Saga trilogy. It's also the continuation of the conflict as a through line.

As much as some people complained of the neo-Imperial threat and resurrection of Palpatine, those are on theme. The Yuuzhan Vong would have been insanely controversial by comparison. And, I would argue, would not work at all in that medium in Star Wars films. There are some things that only work in novel format, and even then I'm not entirely convinced the Yuuzhan Vong actually do work as Star Wars. And I really do enjoy the NJO.

 

"They oppose the darkside" is the same as saying "they oppose evil", hardly specific enough to say it's the same story imo. It's a different story, following many different people, fighting a different enemy, with some overlapping themes.

The PT has the heroes oppose the lackies of the big bad of the original trilogy while said big bad corrupts the father of the hero of the OT. Where the PT tries, some might say too hard, to rhyme and tie into the OT, the NJO is operating on a different rhyme scheme. Its most well known moments are the ones most discordant with the movies and the EU namely chewie and Anakins death. The enemies themselves are a misstep in the established patterns of the universe, if the OT and PT rhyme, then the NJO is the introduction of heavy metal to an opera.

The NJO is a sequel to the movies chronologically speaking, but honestly if the NJO WAS a movie trilogy I am not sure people would count it as part of the main saga rather than the start of a new one.

While I do not care about the sequel movies themselves, comments that seemingly only exist to bring them up and ones distaste for them in unrelated threads annoy me, especially from users with patterns of such behavior, usually I'd simply ignore it but I was already frustrated for unrelated reasons when I made that comment.

 

The NJO is a distinct shift narratively away from the central conflict of the films. Which is a specific incarnation of evil/the dark side. The Solo kids had already engaged in the Sith/Imperial conflict prior to the Yuuzhan Vong, and then it kind of continues with them into LOTF.

I really don't think NJO could possibly be considered part of the Skywalker Saga in the way other EU stories before and after it could be. Legacy is more interesting as a continuation of the Saga than NJO, and it is in many ways a sequel to the NJO. The motivations of the villain are tied more closely with the six(at the time) saga films than the NJO though, and continues a through line that fits a "saga" imo.

 

For me the NJO is the ST equivalent and Legacy vol. 1 is the Final trilogy equivalent.
The New Republic and Imperial Remnant forced to work together against a new threat, the YV were working to weaken the Empire because they feared them, the Jedi were able to bring an end to the war without genocide, the galaxy is more united than at any time in history.
The Legacy comics had the Ossus project which tried to fix the damages of the Yuuzhan Vong War, Darth Krayt tied back to the PT, Cade had the power that Anakin wanted.

 

The actual sequel trilogy didn’t need to be so closely tied to the OT. The 9-episode saga didn’t need to be unified by a blend of Sith/Empire as the only threat.

The NJO functions as the coming of age of the next generation, a new variation of evil to oppose, a new way to be confronted with and overcome the dark side, with similar themes but done in new and interesting ways. (Theme of Redemption going from Vader to a whole civilization, the role of Jedi, the strength of a new galactic democracy to withstand what neither the old republic or empire could have, etc.)

 

I don't really see NJO as a sequel trilogy. There's too much going on for that. More like a four-five year TV series (of 10-20 episodes each). Heck, it would be good if we had some form of adaption. Because I'd like to know what the "cruisers" at Helska IV in Vector Prime, the "frigates" at Ithor in Ruin, the "escort frigates" at Ord Mantell in Hero's Trial, the entire Yuuzhan Vong warfleet, the heavy cruiser Yald from Jedi Eclipse and The Unifying Force, the Star Destroyer Bail Organa from Star by Star, the Mon Calamari cruiser Harbinger from Destiny's Way and The Unifying Force, the senators and military officers and even other characters who've never received an official portrait like Admiral Traest Kre'fey, Senator Fyor Rodan, Moff Ephin Sarreti, Moff Kurlen Flennic, Jedi Knight Waxarn Kel, Chalco, Anni Capstan, Officer Anga, General Ba'tra, General Muun and Senator Fyg Boras.

 

Well yeah, it’s not written as a trilogy, or a movie trilogy. But I think we were talking about the concept.

I think the NJO was good for its time, innovative and ambitious and shook things up.

It did also plant seeds that would be exploited and abused by later authors. Some of which were rightfully rejected by the actual Sequel Trilogy, although it might have been too much of a course correction (mostly the non-democratic politics/values being too heavily focused on, Anakin’s bloodline being too heavy a focus, the Jedi being too heavy a focus, and Luke becoming an overconfident leader who doesn’t doubt himself when he should.)

Neither the NJO concept or the actual ST concept is my “ideal” concept for the Sequel trilogy, but everyone has their own ideal. Mine would be more of a happy medium between ideas from the NJO, *some* of the post-NJO books, the Legacy comics, the High Republic, the more recent TV shows, books like Darth Plagueis in Legends and Bloodline in new canon, some discarded Lucas ideas, some more balanced connectivity with the two other trilogies, and parts of the Sequel Trilogy itself.

Yes this sounds like a Frankenstein monster, but the idea has been clear in my mind, and actually was clear since 2015 with some of them later shown in these other works that came out in the Disney era.

Maybe one day I’ll type it out, not sure in which thread, I don’t want to put in an hours-long effort for a post that no one will see.

But the short of it is a variation of Jaina Solo/Skywalker (with similarities to Ania Solo and Rey) with a mastermind Plagueis, a twist about Palpatine and the rule of two which half came true in TROS, a new republic being tested by underground elements similar to the Nihil (and Lucas’s ST idea for Maul) and anti-Imperial fanatics similar to both Saw’s Rebels and the Yuuzhan Vong, some noble Imperial remnants who don’t redeem the empire or make peace with the republic and instead are eventually persuaded to join it, elements of “Rey Nobody” and how the light will always rise to meet the dark (due to Anakin’s balancing of the Force) with a Jacen/Finn hybrid character or two, closing the book on the Big Three but not killing off their family completely while still de-centering the bloodline for future stories, and a truly new republic and Jedi that are realistically utopian while also keeping with the ST theme of a hero’s work still mattering even if the achievements fail in their lifetime because it is the fight for what’s right that truly makes a hero (the fight being the true legacy, not necessarily a republic or Jedi succeeding, still drill that home, but still have that “icing on the cake” of the dawn of a new high republic).

 

Well… if you don’t ever post this whole Sequel Trilogy pitch, I, your son Christopher Tolkien, will edit all your writings together into one big book and publish it posthumously.

 

NJO has just a larger time span (4 years), what IMHO is enough to qualify it as a sequel to the OT - with a big time gap, true that. All the Zahnverse in-between meanwhile was each covering only a very short time span with also a limited amount of characters involved, while NJO was really showing a picture of the whole galaxy, what's happening where of important things.

What I always missed in the Zahnverse was the limited mention of who was really in power on the imperial side. You see only Thrawn, but of the remnant Empire, the remaining Moffs or on which worlds they did dwell now, you have to take resort to Crimson or Dark Empire to find something about it. NJO meanwhile has Pellaeon's perspective, the Chiss Ascendancy and the New Republic as well, culminating (at least the Remnant Empire and the New Republic) into the Galactic Alliance in the end, while staying separate in their inner affairs.

Also a difference to Zahnverse: In NJO you have all living Jedi present to do some stuff. That is the material of a good and large saga.

 

Moddb.com and assorted fan modded games (for Warlords, Empire at War: Thrawn's Revenge etc) and others, have ended up depicting quite a lot of the ships you have listed, btw.

Harbinger is probably a Mediator-class - but we have no official version of that depicted visually, yet.
Cruisers may be Matalok class (sort of semi asteroidal/oval looking) or Miid Ro'ik, or Suv Ban-D'krid class (smaller, egglike?) Frigates I always kind of thought were flint/menhir shaped, or possibly faceted somewhat?

Some of the 'corvettes' seem definitely to be, like the I'Friil Ma-Nat-class...

 

No it is not. Luke overcomes the temptation of the Darkside in RotJ, that is his big moment it was not beatign Vader it was rejecting revenge, it wasn't giving into temptation, the same test Anakin failed in the PT. The same thing the heors of the NJO have to over come, Alpha Red, the darkside, the quick and easy path.

NJO brings in some new members of the band but it is still the same genre, but it works, Anakin is the biggest difference since the movies didn't do fake heroes.

So it is the last of the old the first of the new haha

Then maybe go back to ignoring it, like everyone else did.

I finished Agents of Chaos 1, it has a decent end Han is smart and Nom is right the Vong did suck at improv, they should have just let the recapture happen, and try again later.
Agents of Chaos starts off in a very Hoth kind of way, it is a good wat to show the stakes.

 

When the rhyming in a story becomes too even, it may become boring because the element of incertitude and unpredictability - Rian Johnson would call it subverted expectations - will come too short. It would become a "play it save"-plot.
And I don't mind infusing opera with some heavy metal. Regardless of what you might think about the Andor series, the music there is quite modern and for my taste it fits very well as an alternate version into Star Wars art concepts and narratives.

You mean Tynna = Hoth - I remember.
Nice suggestion of you to the enemy. Elan could play the imprisoned victim then. True that about Nom's opinion, though I did dislike that he solely blamed the guilt of being uncreative on Elan, who was dead already - too dead to defend herself against his accusations. Nom was wise enough not to point with his fingers too much on Harrar or at the Commanders Tla and Malik Carr, with whom he was likely to tend to some matters later.

 

I was never arguing that the NJO is somehow fundamentally Not Star Wars or was Bad, I was saying that it's a different story from the movies, which I never intended as a qualitative statement.

 

O.k. it was your phrase

The word misstep for me is a qualititive statement.

 

I was more referring to how they do not fit in with the rest of the Galaxy in several different ways as Outsiders, tech wise, and in terms of their relationship with the Force.

I suppose it's my fault for not making that clear.

 

@Carib Diss ,
I LIKE Outsiders aka people who don't fit in a LOT. True that, the YV are not really tech wise, but bio wise.

 

Zahn's point in the Heir Trilogy was Thrawn was in power, due to him being the Supreme Commander of the Imperial Fleet. Kinda might equals right.

But in Zahn's next books he legit takes us on a tour of the Remnant with Pelleaon, visiting every key world and meeting Moffs ruling those worlds/systems/sectors.

Granted the Empire has less space then But if you are going to say the "Zahnverse" never detailed the Remnant to us, that would be incorrect to me.

Zahn just didn't show it until it was relevant to the story he was trying to tell. Then Stackpole carried it forward in NJO.