Lit Reading NJO...Again

So what does everyone think happened to the Chazrach slave species the Vong used?

 

I suppose the scientists of the GFFA found ways to remove the Yorik-Kul implants out of the slaves' bodies. I doubt the Chazrach went along with the remaining Yuuzhan Vong to Zonama Sekot in TUF. Or Cal Omas or Traest Kre'fey ordered Nas Choka to make amends in this matter too, that the shapers did remove the transplants.

 

I thought that was when Sekot awakened. Sekot was a seed that landed on the planet Zonama thousands or millions of years ago.

 

I always felt the opposite-that they went with their former masters to Zonama, as they would have struggled to find a place in GFFA society.

 

No, Sekot emerged on Zonama, when Vergere was there. But it has already been there, slumbering until being awaked. The awakening of Sekot may have come due to the invasion attempt of Commander Zho Krashmir, whose worldship Vergere boarded when this group of the Praetorite Vong retreated. Zonama Sekot is the seed of Yuuzhan'tar, the original homeworld of the Yuuzhan Vong. Yuuzhan'tar was a living planet itself before its destruction, and when the Yuuzhan Vong reached its seed in the GFFA, it gave Sekot the final nudge to wake up.

 

No, Sekot had been on Zonama always. It had been just growing and ripening, and it unfold fully, when Vergere was there. Sekot was slumbering until being awaked. The awakening of Sekot may have come due to the invasion attempt of Praetorite Commander Zho Krashmir, whose worldship Vergere boarded when this group of the Praetorite Vong retreated. Zonama Sekot is the seed of Yuuzhan'tar, the original homeworld of the Yuuzhan Vong. Yuuzhan'tar was a living planet itself before its destruction, and when the Yuuzhan Vong reached its seed in the GFFA, it gave Sekot the final nudge to wake up.

 

I meant Zonama Sekot-I just said Zonama as short hand instead of the full name.

 

There was a discussion about just that problem in a KOTOR-"Vindication"-thread about Padawan Haazen, who was so dependent on his lord Barrison Draay, who was knighted while Haazen was not. Actually I find it not very healthy for the soul of an oppressed people to stay so close to its former lords. In many societies on earth, where slavery was abolished formally just in the previous century, you have such conditions, that the former slaves are formally free but stay in the service of their masters, who are still feeling superior. And the slaves just don't know better what to do without their masters. Slavery comes in many shades, not just in the formal act of enslavement.

Thus I find it better to separate the Chazrach for a time being from the Yuuzhan Vong. Maybe they could settle on Yinchorr, which had been populated by a reptiloid species too, before the Empire wiped them out. After, say, 10-20 years, the Chazrach's self-esteem may be big enough that they can meet the Yuuzhan Vong again without having an inferiority complex.

 

the Chazrach would actually be a really interesting conundrum for the GA to deal with. All indications are that they're a sort of proto- or semi-sapient people, and on top of that they have no culture or society of their own, independent of the Yuuzhan Vong. It's even possible they didn't exist for the most part prior to the invasion; if they're like the YV's other bionts, they're probably grown on an as-needed basis. What do you do with a species like that?

 

I’ll be honest, I haven’t read any of the replies because I’m in the process of reading NJO for the first time, but I figured I’d throw my opinion into the mix, at the risk of pissing fans off.

I’ve made it to Remnant so far, and if I’m being honest, I’m really looking forward to the series being over. (This Force Heretic material is particularly bad, and I have another 2 books of it to go. Ugh.)

I don’t want to complain too much, since I’ve genuinely enjoyed a lot of it; Traitor was a banger and probably in my top 10 SW books thus far. I think the main problem is that there just isn’t enough interesting characterization. Nom Anor could have been a really cool character if he had been developed as a sort of anti-Vong that disregarded their religion and put his own interests first, but this is only an angle we see occasionally. The rest of the Vong are too linear in their thinking to offer much variety, and their worldview gets old after so many novels, especially since they stop being scary and menacing after about book 2.

But perhaps worse are the good guys. We all love Luke, Han, and Leia, but the rest? Most characters are bogged down by disciplined militaristic lifestyles or a stale Jedi path (or both) and aren’t any fun. Jag is just a boring Type-A soldier; Jaina is a hotshot pilot and only gets interesting in the single book devoted to her; Anakin departs the story before being developed properly; and Jacen’s fascinating rebirth as a weird type of grey Jedi is built up and forgotten in a single novel.

It seems like most of the authors are more interested in the plot conflicts and the umpteenth space battle than character development and interesting dialogue. There are enough characters here to easily fill 19 books with good stuff, but it all seems so discouragingly thin.

I know Star Wars novels have always had these problems but I feel like I’ve been just less impressed with the storytelling in these books than many other older New Republic-era novels. Am I alone?

 

Jacen's development is important later in the series and unfortunately afterwards.

As for the vong-they are linear in their thinking because the overwhelming majority of them are devoutly religious and believe what they say they believe.

Anor is so significant because of his atheism and cowardice. He is an anomaly among his people.

In terms of character development-Anakin dies a hero's death, Ganner dies a side kick after realizing he isn't and never will be the hero, Han goes through a sustained and realistic period of grief after Chewbacca's death, Kyp has his issues, Mara is poisoned and pregnant and worried but also fighting, Luke has to deal with lots of weighty issues, etc...

So I basically disagree with you in your entirety.

@Sudooku, @Trip-the chazrach appear to be a species that have been enslaved since the vong conquest of their own Galaxy. How the GA would deal with them would present an interesting and challenging conundrum, if they are sapient or once were. As for it not being healthy for the oppressed to go with their oppressors-the vong essentially going back to their Eden, and the chazrach could perhaps find healing and rejuvenation alongside them.

 

The Chazrach had their own planet in the galaxy they once shared with the Yuuzhan Vong, before the latter enslaved them and took the Chazrach with their worldships to the GFFA.

Has anybody an idea who is the person on the cover of Agents of Chaos l: Hero's trial right of Elan?

 

Dying a hero’s death isn’t character development. Discovering you’re not the hero isn’t character development. Neither is being pregnant and worried, frankly. Writing characters is about using what’s happening in their lives to give us a perspective into their thoughts, which Star Wars seldom does due to how many pages are devoted to action, combat, and plotting. It does happen....but not nearly enough.

Take Traitor, for example. There are no big space battles. The story doesn’t split off into 8 different directions. There are no intricate heroic plans put into action (will they succeed?? Yeah, probably). It’s a simple story about two protagonists who have a lot to say and emote to each other while remaining super complex, and one antagonist who hunts them. That’s it. It’s small in scope and infinitely more effective as a result. (The Ganner development you mentioned is also in this book. It’s very telling to me that I didn’t know the first thing about Ganner before his story was put into context against Jacen’s, and he had been in several books I’ve read before. To me he was just Jedi #8. Yet now, with a good author helming a small story, he is finally given a voice, and it’s to emphasize how grey-dark Jacen has become.

The Vong being devoutly religious is, again, not character devlopment. That’s called being one-dimensional, and it doesn’t work stretched out over so many books.

And as for Nom Anor, I’d love to agree with you, but he makes several references to the gods when we are reading his perspective. If he’s an atheist, he certainly forgets it often. Inconsistent characterization is yet another problem with Star Wars.

I get that these authors have a contract for 300 or 400 pages and only have so much time to both move the plot and develop the characters, and while it’s not their fault, it is a part of the issue. Star Wars novels need more breathing room, more time to just shoot the ****, and I don’t think that there needs to be a space battle in every book. I’d be fine with most of the action happening in the major books while the smaller ones focus on downtime and tension building.

 

The problem IMHO is how you read books. If you want to tell things bluntly right in da face of the reader or if you serve some bites to the audience which are hinting at something more discreetly but to tell the reader like: Nom Anor did not believe in the gods anymore.

Still there are enough hints in the books that Nom Anor didn't believe in the gods anymore, for instance in his interactions with Tsavong Lah. Character development is not made by plain statements only but by the way people say something, by the gestures, by the things they don't say. Without such a subtle reading between the lines, sure, you may spot no character development.

And, for you say that the Vong had no character development at all, you did clearly miss some passages about many protagonists. This may be due to the fact, that one simply forget about a previous passage about, lets say Nen Yim or Harrar, because the lines about the good guys fill such huge blocks between the Vong episodes.

No, Nom Anor doesn't just have to "forget" to talk or to think about the gods, he doesn't do such either on purpose or he is clearly aware, that he did not think of them or doesn't mention them. So there is a lot of self-reflection in Nom Anor even if it not called like this explicitly in the books.

 

Also the vong being 98% devoutly religious is not "one dimensional"-it's like their most important trait. That's what makes Anor and also people like Nen Yim so important to the story is why they are so different from the vast majority of their people.

 

So halfway through Star by Star.

The politics is the best part so far.

Hate Barabels, hate that they came up with force melds (not supprising honestly they are Denning mandos) and hate the sexualsation of minors (the tweliks are 16!? wft).

The plan is dumb since they reveal that they are Jacen (the MOST wanted jedi the galaxy) and Anakin (I think 2nd or 3rd). Honestly just highjack a transport with shamed ones on it and use them to help get you in.

The YVH droids are cool.

Leia turning away from politics. This seems to me like Jacen not using the force. You're turning your back on your gift, cause you're selfish.

I must have miss heard when I had the audio book, casue I thought Anakin decided to go on a rescue mission by him self, not they got forced into it by the trap. Honestly I like the idea of the kids going to play hero on their own drive.

Ship has crashed and the Bith jedi is dead. (why did they need to be tortured? aside from Denning seeming to get off on it).

 

I think a part of the issue you’re having with the NJO is that you’re listening to the audiobooks which are heavily cut and don’t adequately explain what’s happening a lot of the time. Especially star by star which condensed 600 pages into a few hours.

 

And a most important battle isn’t covered at all

 

Yes I know, that is why I am reading the novel now.

In the audiobook, the YVH's came from no-where and there was no politics (which is a disappointment, since the senate is the best so far).

The Vong saw the strike coming and set a trap.

But as @OutsiderJediSam said it makes no sense.

 

Yeah 16 is sort of age of consent here as well, but still really weird, since when I read the opening I assumed they were like 20.

 

Age of consent is 18 in Australia (we also get to drink and smoke legally at 18 here).

 

actually no.

16 is, with parental permission. (marriage)