Lit Reading 'Young Jedi Knights' and 'Junior Jedi Knights'

I still can't unsee the paralells of Tenenial Djo and Lady Diana in real life.

Both married into powerful royal houses agains the royals preferances with intrigue behind the scenes making their life hell. Both tried to do their best and become peoples favourites. And both marriages ended after several children badly with true loves elsewhere complicating the relationship of the initially trying couple. For both it ended deadly with a successful assassination attempt (tarned as an accident). Their kids lived on and tried to survive but as recently on the news even her kids seem to have enough of the royal shenangians and quit!

 

LOLOLOL! And even the woman he eventually married initially wanted to kill him! Poor Luke...

"Hapan Instagram"-now that would be a concept! As an aside, the Jedi Order really should have gotten into the social media game to help them be more "relatable" to the public. I do agree that keeping Ta'a Chume around during the Vong invasion was something of a "necessary evil"--sometimes political chaos can be more damaging than autocratic rule, especially in times of crisis. What doesn't make sense to me is Tenel Ka keeping her evil grandmother around after the Yuuzhan Vong War was over.

Hmmm, didn't think of that. I suppose it's not exactly well-known outside the Cluster that Hapan politics can be so...brutal.

Exactly! She could even have billed it as part of her modernization efforts: "I will NOT be like my grandmother and I will eliminate my political enemies the legal way!" The "New Hapes" would NOT tolerate assassination, backstabbing, and corruption...she could have put it that she was "draining the swamp", so to speak.

Oh boy, I didn't even think of that. But wasn't Diana's death in that car wreck an accident?

 

If the authors wanted the NJO to be more "relatable" to the public they could have made it so. [sarcasm]But then we would not have the "great" plot points about the people turning against them and the Jedi being the underdogs fighting the good fight[/sarcasm]

Except Tenenial Djo walked into it fully knowing and declaring that she was just as dangerous as any one there. She even threatened the Queen Mother that if the later tried anything so would she have no qualms about retaliating.

Yes it was.

 

Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer

Besides, I am sure Tenel Ka learned quite well how to scheme and manipulate like her grandma can do. She simply was not as ruthless and dark about it. So long she found something useful in her, she kept her having ways to discard her handy all the time. She is capable herself as well. Ta'a might admire how much she learned from her, not realising her own undoing that way. Pity Jacen got to her first before Tenel Ka might have.

I very much agree! Pity the Jedi never got instagram and instead lived the toxic world of twitter (if FOTJ Jedi Council at each others throats is any indication!). Though sometimes I still think if that wasn't meant to be a subliminal portrayal of how storygroup operates behind closed doors (even before there was a storygroup, the powers that ran the story side). At least Kyp profited from social media getting a girlfriend he never showed others living the dream of posting selfies of his hair.

Well, there are conspiracy theories aplenty. The "accident" was sold to the press to quickly discard of any investigation. Fact though shows a lot more going on starting with marital troubles, Charles and Camillas affair, Lady Dianas own potential affair with someone and a lot of other coincidences regarding the car, the route taken and all that. As well as shenangians thath appened afterwards to cover up or erase some evidence.

I am no fan of royalty or press about them, so you have to rely on others for the full picture. If all rumored to be part of the conspiracy was is true, no idea. Likewise, no idea if all is untrue but even if the truth is somewhere in between... that already would confirm there is more to it than natural death.

 

Not so different from Diana who thought the people loving and backing her made her invincible/invulnerable. We do not know any strong words behind closed doors, but I would not see her as any less direct than Teneniel there.

 

It would have been immensely satisfying to see Tenel Ka or Isolder be the one to off Ta'a Chume.

Don't give me ideas...I have a plot-bunny for a humor fanfic called the "Jedi Social Media Adventures." At least one Instagram or Twitter account should be called "Luke Skywalker's Exes" and there should be a "Council Twitter" where Corran Horn and Kyp Durron are always sub-tweeting and flaming one another!

Yikes. Looks like Harry and Meghan might be making the right decision by getting out of there.

You know, I recently read some article that was like, "It's honestly partially the Jedi Order's fault that people keep turning on them and having 'purges.' A secretive order of Force-users that seems not to answer to anyone but themselves is inevitably going to make people uncomfortable at some point." I've spoken at length with SiouxFan several times about this, and he's mentioned that being a Jedi should be less like a job and more like a religion--"who you are, not what you do." Like Mon Mothma told Luke in Ambush at Corellia, there should be Jedi pilots, doctors, farmers, etc...integrate the Jedi into society instead of having them be this strange 'order' of 'galactic policemen/wizard para-militia' and things would probably go a lot better for them.

 

You know, one should make twitter accounts for SW characters and never break character with them...

Back when Joe Schreiber's Death Troopers was released they had a nice marketing gag with a real twitter account setup as if belonging to a Stormtrooper tweeting home from the doomed zombie prison barge... so twitter is Legends canon, from a certain point of view!

X-Wing: Alliance pc game predates that though with inuniverse emails being fun!

But then again, that is like some TFN folks who are at twitter already. @AdmiralNick22 and @GrandAdmiralJello are their own characters already

 

Just for clarity, I meant internal PR. I suspect most Hapans are unaware of the court intrigue - they will be told that their succession of leaders is stable and well-ordered, and that those rulers are consistently wise and fair. This becomes all the more relevant because Tenel Ka's not from the established Hapan female line, a point of some controversy. If she suddenly arrests Ta'a Chume and holds a show-trial in which she throws around accusations that are widly at odds with the Ta'a Chume the people think they know, people might think she's the one acting tyranically.

So, I can see why Tenel Ka might not want to do that?

- The Imperial Ewok

 

All she needs is a gun of command and Ta'a confesses! No accusations or else needed!

Hapan technology should not be forgotten and warfare aside their implications and domestic uses are manifold! Though, I bet the enemy faction would then fight back by claiming a Mairan Bor was used to alter Ta'as memories of what she had to confess... oh boy, hapan law enforcement must be hell! Still I would like to see them proof any of that in court. They'd have to do an Inception level of mindmanipulation and countermanipulation to get to the truth. In short Ta'a ends up as fried as she did in Legends thx to Jacen...

Propaganda war aside, the easiest way still would be to assassinate Ta'a and blame it on a rival faction that hates Ta'a and Tenel Ka both. To unite their followers behind Tenel Ka against them. But not a very Jedi Way to do.

 

Just wondering, where has it been established that the Jedi were a "secretive order of Force-users that seems not to answer to anyone but themselves"?

Also, before the NJO, how many times had the people turned against them and 'purged' them? And how long between those instances?

How? Also, would those potential Jedi "pilots, doctors, farmers" be Jedi first or would it be more of a side job that they work with diplomatic crisis, defend the innocent, bring justice, stopping dark side users and similar?

One more thing: by what standards is their order "strange"?

 

Oh boy. The "Gun of Command" is a classic MacGuffin. Dave Wolverton invented it so his "Han kidnaps Leia" storyline in Courtship would work, and it was henceforth never mentioned again because it was obvious to most other authors that it was a giant Plot Device and would be incredibly difficult to shoehorn into any other storyline and make it seem authentic. Although-it does seem like it would be a useful investigative tool, but just like with polygraphs, there's always going to be a degree of uncertainty.

That probably would be an effective method...until someone found out the truth and either decided to use it to blackmail Tenel Ka or use it to prop up the argument that "See, this is why we should not have a Jedi queen." Honestly Tenel Ka was put in a pretty difficult situation regarding her grandmother, but I still think Ta'a Chume was kept around by the authors long past when it would have been wiser for Tenel Ka to just remove her.

I mean...there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of oversight of Luke's Jedi Order. The incident, I think, that most underscores the "not answering to anyone but themselves", as I've stated on the thread previously, is the whole Kyp Durron incident. Kyp should have faced New Republic justice, but Anderson wrote a completely implausible storyline in which the Provisional Council releases Kyp to Luke instead of prosecuting him, as both sanity and morality would otherwise have indicated, "possessed" or no. I'm pretty sure there was a purge in the pre-KOTOR era. And then during FoTJ, Daala comes down pretty hard on the Jedi...not exactly a purge, but she sure isn't friendly to them either. And then there's the purge in the Legacy comics. The truth is, aside from a few who've had the opportunity to work with them, most people don't really know what the Jedi or or what they do, and 'it is easy to fear what you don't understand.' The secrecy and lack of understanding that surrounded the Old Order is part of why the Empire could be so effective at essentially wiping all traces of the Jedi from the galaxy in 20 years and so easily portraying them as the villains towards the end of the Clone Wars. If the Jedi were more open about who they are and what they do, Palpatine may well have had a much harder time convincing the public that the "Jedi had tried to take over." Just my opinion.

There could be a kind of "Jedi Reserve" like an Army Reserve where you do your regular job (pilot, doctor, farmer, etc.) most of the time, but if there is a need for more "active duty" Jedi, they could pull the needed Knights out of the reserves. The thing is, there are already completely normal people who defend the innocent and bring justice. Why can't a Jedi work at a non-profit or be a lawyer and do exactly the same thing, using their Force talents to augment the existing structures. There IS a diplomatic corps--why are the Jedi specially needed to be diplomats? The way the Jedi operate rather reminds me of some of the foibles of foreign "humanitarian interventions"--bringing in someone with little knowledge of the problem and trying to fix it from the outside rather than working within the system to repair what's gone wrong. As for dealing with dark-side users, why couldn't that be carried out by a kind of 'Special Forces'? If there's a dark-sider that needs to be taken care of, just send some members of the Special Forces who also happen to be Jedi to take care of it. There are definitely risks that come with embedding yourself too deeply within the government or military structure (think Captain America: Civil War), but I think the potential benefits could outweigh the risks. The fact is, the 'independent Jedi Order' model just doesn't seem to be working long-term for the Jedi, so perhaps it is time to try something else.

I think they meant 'strange' as in pretty much no one who's not a Jedi has an intellectual understanding of how their powers work or what function they are supposed to perform in the galaxy. "Defenders of peace and justice" is a pretty vague job description, after all.

 

This, I think, is what bugs me most about the Jedi Order from NJO onwards...they maintain that they're independent, but are they? They've inserted themselves into politics with the creation of Omas's Council, and the money almost certainly comes from the Senate...is this independent?

 

Out of curiosity, how did you feel about the idea for a reformed Jedi Council put forward in Destiny's Way? Where the Jedi remain as active and government-sanctioned as they've been in the past, but the Jedi Council becomes half populated by Jedi and half by muggles representing various agencies of the elected government?

Most people weren't too fond of that book, but I was. If only because it was willing to actually think about things like this (and didn't take it as a given that "that's ridiculous, the Jedi are self-governing and unaccountable for the greater good and by the will of the Force, and only an Imperial fascist or a tool of same would ever suggest otherwise" was the only possible response).

 

So…Darkest Knight. This was a fun installment, and it was pretty cool that most of it took place on a Lowie’s home planet—giving us some time to delve into Wookiee culture and learn more about Lowie’s family.

I was relieved to see the Academy finally get some defenses in the form of shield generators at the beginning of this book—although Luke apparently has faith that his Jedi Knights could do a good enough job of defending themselves if it came to that. Yay. For the love of the Force, somebody please teach a tactics class at this academy.

A cute thing that happened in this book: Anakin Solo sends Tenel Ka a holo-message in which he teaches her how to braid her hair one handed, after practicing on Leia’s hair. Definitely an ‘awww’ moment.

I’m endlessly entertained by the continuing saga of Jacen trying to get Tenel Ka to laugh as he considers doing increasingly ridiculous things to get a chuckle out of her. It’s just so cute. His talent with animals is fun to read about too…even when he’s rescuing rodents that have chewed through essential components in the ship he’s currently in.

As for Zekk, whose new moniker is the title of this book…dude sure gave up on his friends fast. He’s only been at the Shadow Academy for a couple of months but already he’s more loyal to them than he was to the kids who have been his friends for half a decade. He was definitely harboring resentment against Jaina and Jacen for quite some time, but I would have liked to see some more doubts and questions on his part and less of a heel-face turn. The part where he stands by and lets the stormtrooper slaughter several Wookiees was quite chilling…somehow I just didn’t think he’d become that brutal quite so quickly.

I quite enjoyed the storyline with Lowie and his sister Sirra in this novel—with her wanting to go off on adventures instead of staying on Kashyyyk to follow in her parent’s footsteps and mourning her best friend’s untimely death. A classic tale of ‘I don’t want to be like my parents’ and it was executed pretty well. Also, I’m a little confused as to how the whole Force-sensitivity thing works…isn’t it supposed to be genetic? Jacen and Jaina inherited their power from their mother, Tenel Ka from Teneniel, etc. etc. I suppose sometimes it works as a random genetic mutation, perhaps? Apparently Lucas also had some rule about there not being Wookiee Jedi, but Lowie got to be the lucky exception until that Wookiee youngling in The Clone Wars.

The action in this book was quite well-done; Jaina and Chewie team up to take down Nightsister Garowyn and then descend into the lower levels of Kashyyyk’s forests to find the others. We get to see some serious badassery from the young Jedi, Jacen tricking a giant slug into attacking some stormtroopers and Jaina facing off against Zekk, who states he “doesn’t want to hurt her” and “will spare her this one time” but warns her against testing his loyalties to the Emperor and Brakiss who have so generously provided him with opportunities to wear fancy armor and be evil.

Also, at this point it’s very obvious to the reader that the “Emperor” is a fake…there’s a whole scene with Brakiss trying to get into his chambers to see him but being told to go away. The more the series progresses, Brakiss comes off as increasingly…pathetic. His groveling and pleading to see the Emperor as the great leader of the Shadow Academy made him look less like a guy dedicated to some great nefarious purpose and more like a lackey desperate for validation, which is what he is, basically. No wonder he was able to manipulate Zekk so easily…he knows all about the needy, validation-seeking lost kid angle of things.

In any case, this was a fun installment and a nice setup for the final showdown between the Jedi Academy and the Shadow Academy in Jedi Under Siege…

 

It was definitely a step up from what they'd had before, in my opinion. After all, the Jedi are serving the government to some extent, so it was a way to ensure that there was a better system of accountability. Also a way to help make sure Jedi were being "deployed" in the most effective way during wartime.

 

I'm pretty sure that once you take money from any government, you can safely assume you are no longer "independent". Even if you're not directly answering to that government on policy decisions, your financial fate is tied up with them, so...yeah. Which is why I am for greater transparency on the part of the Jedi...if you are using the taxpayers' money to fund your activities, then the people have a right to know WHAT their money is being used for.

 

There was also that Jedi Master from the TPM-era comics, Tyvokka.

 

based on how most of Luke's students react once they are attacked do they have a tactics class

not really. Sometimes it's passed on, sometimes not and sometimes people from families without any previous history of Force sensitivity have a member who is. Crystal Star for example has the child of two of Vader's more powerful students being a muggler.

 

I want to like it...but the execution leaves me flat. It always reads to me that instead of being a Council to decide Jedi items, it becomes one that decides government policy and that rubs me the wrong way. But maybe that's simply because the NJO concentrates mainly on the Jedi and not on political matters...except to deride politicians.

I've always thought that was really cool...but I will forever wish that they'd let Jacen be the one to do it. Just think of the sappy 'awwww....' factor that would have induced!

There's a great conversation in one fanfic which I've quoted before...and I wish I could remember the name....when Teneniel asks Tenel Ka, "Why don't you laugh at Jacen's jokes? They really are quite good." -- "Because then he'd stop trying."

Pretty much Kylo Ren, then, with a better lightsaber. Also, was there any real threat of Zekk turning dark? I never thought so...which also watered-down the plot a bit, at least to me.

 

Zekk killing his rival in a duel is portrayed as a massive step toward the dark side from his point of view - but the self-defence factor kind of counters that.

 

Yeah, the jedi really should be working with the government, I like the advisory council, even if it is heavily weighted to the jedi.

As well post-NJO jedi seem to be more insular than any other time (except maybe the Palpatine era), in ancient times the Jedi library on Ossus was open to all people and even the post Russan Jedi allowed people to use the archives. But Lukes jedi don't even allow that post-NJO.

To jump back to Kyp and Cadia, in the book they never mention any civilian population, in fact they make it sound like the entire population is millitary (evacuations being decided by rank). I would also argue that Kype was suffering temporary insanity due to the affect Kun was having on his mind and combined with just hearing about his 'brothers death'.

I thought Zekk was going dark, I mean a duel is not like someone attacking you, it is a decision to fight someone to the death, it is premeditated.

 

TBH, I've never really understood why they made it be Anakin and not Jacen who did-Jacen IS the one with the crush on her, after all. But you CAN head-canon differently, after all!

LOLOL! Yes indeed. I've never understood Kylo Ren's lightsaber-it looks like a great way to cut your fingers off, but maybe that's the point!

No, I certainly never thought so. It wasn't like they were going to actually make Jaina's crush go to the dark side...although they did make him a bug later. **shudder** Also, am I the only one who is a little weirded out by the fact that ALL of Jaina's love interests (Zekk, Jag, Kyp) look exactly the same? Girl definitely has a type.

 

Brakiss took him to the room - said "This is your next test - a duel to the death" - and left. Not much choice there.

 

I think you are confusing terminology here. If they were "not answering to anyone but themselves" so would they not need to hand over Kyp to the NR at all.

So one happening sometime before 3956 BBY and the next one (Order 66) 19 BBY, the next one in around 60 years, 43 ABY, later and the last one around 130 ABY. So not that often, and the last three have been by evil fascists where at least two of the cases needed some real groundwork to be able to put the blame on them and justify their purge, I don't know about the middle one since I don't read FotJ

Based on all the surviving Jedi, wannabe-Jedi, people getting their hand on Jedi knowledge and people showing respect to the Jedi so would I not say that the Empire was "effective at essentially wiping all traces of the Jedi from the galaxy in 20 years".

But would they not be on full call based on the EU's presentation of the Jedi more or less always being needed, for one thing or another? And how would there being a Jedi reserve help with their connection to the average citizen in the republic (who, based on all proud warrior cultures SW has, is some kind of fighter)?

Do we know that they don't do it?

Maybe because dealing with dark-side users often need diplomacy and non-combat knowledge?

What perioed are you refering to with "'independent Jedi Order' model"?

Where have this been established?

Not any more than many other short job decribtions

 

Point of fact, the jedi didn't hand Kyp over Han did.

So while there was some evidence of Luke being bound to the NR (asking Mon Mothma to rebuild the jedi), this is not one of them.

The Purge happened post-KOTOR and pre KOTOR 2. It was more the fallout of the war and the Sith going ver hard against a battered jedi order. Then the Zakul war leads a similar, though not as bad, scattering of the jedi.

Order 66 was a purge and the most effective and devistating. It is also the only one to be an actual purge and not the result of a war.

Daala isn't trying to purge the jedi she is trying to get them under the government thumb, as she thinks they pose a threat to the government and have too many benefits with no oversight. When she tries to take away the jedi benefits, the jedi; kill the leader who wants to work with the government and then stage a coup.

Legacy is the Sith-Imperials killing jedi and scattering them.

Well you had a lot of fear and disinformation about it, the fact the Palpatine could purge the jedi and be lauded as a hero should tell you that people did not like the jedi.

Since people never respect the jedi when they are around, maybe that does speak to it.

I like the idea of a jedi reserve. It reminds me of what Fyor Rodan wanted the jedi to do. If they want to be pilots and soldiers? Enlist. Want to be a diplomat? Join the core.
Use your jedi skills but within the structure of the government.

Under Luke post-NJO it seems like all the jedi do is kill people. They are very insular, while they serve in the GA at the start of LotF, by FotJ they are well seperate.

When has that ever happened? I can only think of Han and Kyp and Luke and Vader, both of which was more frienship/family connections than generic diplomacy.

I would have liked to see the jedi go back to how they were in ancient times, a very lose group that was more a club than the monastic/militaristic order it became.