Full Series Rebels 4.03-4.04 - In the Name of the Rebellion - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

The project the green dude was talking about (sry forgot the alien name ) was very likely Galen's project. They didn't know that they help to build a superweapon at the beginning.

 

Not to mention you have stuff like Ezra using the Force to fling a stormtrooper up and down, something you hardly ever, if ever, saw Jedi do during the Clone Wars. They go overboard with just how powerful they've made him and Kana at times.

 

Spoiler

seconds straight week they have gone out of thier way to show the rebels (even Saw) stunning everybody only to kill them all anyways a few minutes later in a giant explosion. It's becoming pretty humorous

 

Stop comparing Rebels to the Clone Wars, and you might be able to enjoy it more.
As for the Death Troopers, they're still storm troopers. Ezra, Sabine and Saw likely have them outskilled and out-experienced. Saw even uses the corpse of one of the Darth Troopers to shield himself from the Commander's augmented vision.
The Star Destroyer being blown up is a victory for Saw, not the Alliance, and it will be swept underneath the rug by the Imperials. It was an off-the-books mission for the Death Star Project, not exactly something that the Empire will take advantage of and plaster over the holonet as a tragedy or something the Alliance will claim credit for.

 

Death troopers are apparently basically what spestnaz are to regular troops and are supposedly also surgically augmented. I'm not saying they should be completely invincible to Ezra et al--the Jedi do have the Force on their side after all--but at least give us the sense that these aren't just stormtroopers with a black paint job.

 

I dont think that was their purpose to the story being told in this episode. The only reason they were there was to cue in the viewers who watched Rogue One that Saw was absolutely correct about the cargo being linked to the Death Star project. Perhaps it was a poorly executed inclusion, but I still don't put much behind the Death Troopers being the cream of the crop of the Empire, just another benchmark about the standard imperial stormtrooper (which isnt much)

 

I always wondered about this as well. I can understand the Empire looking somewhat the other way regarding rebel activity as they're focusing heavily on the Death Star. They likely believe the rebels won't be a threat anymore after its completion. But the fact they leave Kanan and Ezra continue to support the rebels after season 2 without intervention surprises me. But yeah, you're right. As the series nears its end, chances are getting higher either Vader or the Inquisitors will come after them. There needs to be some sort of conclusion that leads the Empire to "believe" Vader is all that's left of their religion.

Ideally, I would love to see Vader (and maybe even the 501st Legion) appearing near the end of the series. We could have Vader hunting down Kanan and Ezra. A final showdown could lead to Kanan's end, sacrificing himself and making his final stand. Ezra could survive but has to take on a new identity and distance himself from the Jedi way. He leaves the rebellion to keep Hera and the others safe. The saddest thing would be if Hera and the rebels believe Ezra was killed/missing in action.

 

I'd need evidence that the Empire has made a clear distinction between Saw and the Rebellion. Not sure how they would know there is a difference or why they would classify one as different from the other.

I do agree that given the results of the episode - a massive Kyber Crystal Exploding, a Star Destroyer and a Giant Satellite getting waxed - and the fact that it takes place with some intent and likelihood that the DS was not terribly far away -- is something the Imperials would gladly gloss over to anyone not "need to know"

 

Can't say enough how much I love Forest Whitaker's take on Saw Garrera. His injection of moral ambiguity into the Rebellion contributes immensely to the stakes of the pre-ANH era.

 

One thing I thought about following the explosion of the Star Destroyer by the giant Kyber Crystal was how massive it was. Reminded me of this one in TCW.

 

This two parter is a huge step up from last week's. This story fit snugly into the Star Wars canon with ample connections and references to both ANH and Rogue One. It was great to see Saw get some further depth added to his character. I'm glad he didn't have a change of heart at the end of part two regarding the prisoners and left them to die to further his cause. I'm glad Rebels is sticking to his character and examining the thin line between justified insurrection and terrorism. It was great to see death troopers, but disappointing that they were terribly ineffective. The really are menacing in Rogue One, but not so much here.

Also, I thought kyber crystals could only be seen by Jedi?


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I loved these episodes. That beginning was phenomenal. Love the dialogue, too, great character moments throughout.

And I think people are getting too upset over the death troopers. Yes, they're more elite, but even in Rogue One they were getting shot down by people less skilled than the Ghost crew. Cassian takes out two by himself in a matter of seconds. Baze manages to kill all the ones around him, and indirectly killed by one's detonator. And yet skilled warriors like Saw, Sabine, and Ezra are too much to believe? Whatever fuel fans can use against Rebels, I guess...

 

I enjoy both a great deal (with Clone Wars being my favorite) but still, Ezra and Kanan are ridiculously overpowered on this show in a way you don't see the Jedi fight in general.

 

Really? What has Ezra or Kanan done that is so overpowered and unprecedented for Jedi?

 

The Crystal Cave Ilum scene, from the TCW Season 5 episode, shows that only Jedi can distinguish them when they're surrounded by regular crystals. However, the later episodes make it clear that kybers are considered valuable by criminals (Hondo's gang) - so, they can see them then. Same with Season 7's Utapau arc, with a much larger crystal (the crystal from this, probably used the same animations as the TCW one - but full detail. In the unfinished episode itself, the crystal was much less detailed).

The galleries for the episode:

http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/crystal-crisis-on-utapau-concept-art-gallery

support this idea - that they reused the basic animation for the crystal's shape.

 

That's such a lackluster explanation. We see Death Troopers dropping people left and right in Rogue One, being seriously outnumbered. And we know that they are supposed to be physically augmented and highly trained, while already being taken from the best of the Imperial military and intelligence services. They aren't 'just Stormtroopers'. And even normal Stormtroopers are, canonically, a force to be reckoned with. The last episode made they so stupidly under-powered for the sake of the plot, you can't beat around that bush.

 

To be fair, those Rebel grunts we saw getting gunned down are nowhere the near the level of a brutal veteran, a Jedi and a Mandalorian.

The Deathtroopers definitely could've done better but I still think they're out-classed in that scenario.

 

The SpecForce guys in Rogue One are who I'd expect to have more of a chance against Death Troopers. Highly trained, organized and with most of them probably having multiple years in service. So I still don't buy that they're completely outclassed. Ezra is made to be too overpowered for having so little training and experience, same with Sabine. I just think that the Death Troopers put up such a pathetic fight, simply for the purpose of advancing the plot. But that's the fate of all Stormtroopers I guess.

 

I will admit I'm a wee bit disappointed that the Death Troopers are just, seemingly, regular folks. I thought they would be technological / human abominations that spoke in their own freaky language and only existed for killing (as opposed to stormtroopers who get caught up in guard and patrol duty every once in awhile). Ah well, all we know is that they can speak Basic so maybe they're still horrific, unknowable monsters underneath there. One could hope...

 

Never got the impression they were freaks. Just elite Stormtroopers.

But considering how pathetic Stormtroopers are, that's not saying much.

 

Star Wars fans have this tendency to innaccurately remember how cool something was

(boba fett)

 

Cassian, Baze and Chirrut are definitely more skilled than Ezra and Sabine. And I only remember Baze and Cassian actually killing any of the Death Troopers. Saw I can actually believe being good in combat since he was trained by a Clone Trooper and Jedi, not to mention he has over a decade of experience in combat.

You're acting as if the character in Rebels somehow being amazing at combat in any possible situation isn't ridiculous. I like Rebels, but come on it's not fun to watch the Empire get completely trashed on all the time. Especially when the main character don't even seem to be trying (ie cutting weapons rather than just stabbing someone). They're supposed to be militarily and technologically superior to the Alliance, and almost every other piece of Star Wars material is able to show that.

 

I like Cassian, Baze and Chirrut but Ezra and Sabine could take them all down. Ezra is basically a trained Jedi with a lightsaber and Sabine could take them out from afar rockin her jetpack. Of all of those, I think Baze might have the firepower but Ezra managed to hold off Darth Vader for about 10 seconds which actually kinda counts pretty high up there. (Admittedly, Vader was one handing it and gloating but still!) Cassian wouldn't take any of them out unless he shot them in the back.

However, I buy all 5 of them can take out some Death Troopers, which they've done.

 

Watching The Spectres work in Rebels, they're very potent. Stuff Sabine and Ezra have done, it's looks like more any of our Rouge One cast could do.

 

Maybe these are different perceptions, but I would quicker imagine Baze taking down Ezra and Sabine faster than they would have time to react. I think a lot of has to do with the different media presentation. Rebels, perhaps due to its format and its main target audience, has a tendency to portray their victories as kid plays, while Rogue One added a palpable sense of threat and a feeling of difficulty. As a result, I often cannot the Rebels characters seriously.

But nevertheless, Baze was still hit by death troopers. He kept going though, as he chanted the Force is with him, but it was framed as an out-of-ordinary accomplishment that hinged on the power of faith. Much like Chirrut’s miraculous Force walk. I thought it was a pretty badass scene because the movie did establish the death troopers as deadly.

There isn’t such in Rebels. There is no sense of meaningful accomplishment, because Death troopers are quite literally treated as regular stormtroopers and the show constantly treats defeating stomtroopers and Destroyers like child's play - Hera and Kanan even made a joke about it. We hear Death troopers talking normally, he hear them panicking like this is their first mission, we don’t even see why they are an improvement of stormtroopers or that their helmets are equipped with special sensors because they still fall to the oldest Rebel trick of smoke bombs (which, for some reason, don’t blind helmet-less Saw, but hey, plot), so when the Rebels take them down easily, it doesn’t feel badass or special, it feels just disappointing, repetitive, boring. And that not only diminishes a great concept like the Death troopers, it makes all the more the Rebels characters feel too cartoonish.

I mean, it would it really cost that much to portray Death troopers as how they were meant to be seen, meaning and threatening? I’m not expecting them to kill the main characters, but it would’ve been far more entertaining and intense to watch the Rebels having some difficulty with them, being hit or something. Because really, why bother bringing in death troopers if you’re just going to have them be like normal Rebels stormtroopers?

And it’s like ARC_RC-7567 said, it's not fun to watch the Empire get trashed all the time. I would've probably care about these many and oh-so-many Ghost crew accomplishments if the show actually bothered to treat them like actual challenges, instead of leaving the real challenges only for the season finales.