Full Series Rebels 4.15/4.16 - Family Reunion - and Farewell (SERIES FINALE!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

That would be a solid guess. Luke wants to know as much about the Jedi as possible and she sure does know a lot.

 

What happened to Hera’s summary of the story from the first season 4 trailer or was that just for the trailers?

 

I am looking forward to the OT characters interacting with the Rebels crew now that the series has ended. I want a story of Hera and Luke together where Luke is experiencing difficulties with his path of becoming a Jedi, and Hera as an interlocutor schools him on what it meant for Kanan and Ezra to be jedi; Telling him that the dogma of the near extinct Jedi Order isn't all that important as long as he follows the path he needs to.

 

This kind of takes the Heir to the Empire stance, instead of Thrawn assigned far away from the core when Palps dies he and his fleet we hyperspaced, into god knows where. Highly likely Thrawn returns also.


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Advertisement for the finale said 8:30 and for some reason I thought that was my local time so I just now got to watch it. I'm late, as usual.

I really wish that Rebels had been as good as these last few episodes had been for the entire show. I felt like there were real stakes, which is something that seemed to have been missing until recently. I loved the ending -- it was great to see the characters at peace and to know that they survived the war. There were a ton of great tie-ins to previous episodes. I never liked the space whales episode but I honestly didn't mind them here. As Wolffe said, it was a very Bridger thing to do.

The Palpatine and Ezra segment was by far the best part since I genuinely didn't know what was going to happen for one. I'm holding out hope that Thrawn is still alive since Ezra is supposedly still out there as well, probably in the Unknown Regions. That's the only way they could get me to watch the next show, if it is indeed after Episode VI (hope it's not, but it looks that way). His "death" was the most disappointing part of the episode, but they had to get him out of the picture somehow, I guess.

I give the episode a 10/10 but I'm not sure if it was better than Twilight of the Apprentice. Second-best episode at worst.

 

Yeah, this is how I feel. Sure, Lothal may not be strictly important, but the Empire lost a whole garrison and a flotilla of the supposedly elite seventh fleet to a bunch of yokels and wild animals, and with the defences gone there wouldn't be much stopping a few ships coming back to flatten the cities. Compared to RO where just taking out two Star Destroyers felt like a great achievement, it does make it feel that all the rebel soldiers who died on Scarif needed the help of a handful of pirates and some other weirdoes to get in without a scratch. Like I said, making the line at the end more ambiguous as to what happened to Lothal through the war would've been better.

And at the end, 'the seemingly invincible Empire began to fracture'--well, it would've been nice if the Empire had felt invincible or consistently threatening in the series. As an example, earlier Pryce was smart enough to just rush a Rebel camp with tanks and then try to flatten it with TIE bombers...here she just brings a handful of small gunships and gets herself captured, because of course

Nitpicks aside, I at least appreciate that they tried to tie the series all together, and for the target audience there was probably a good amount of action and threat, so I'm not livid over it or anything.

 

Scariff happens very soon right after Thrawn gets abducted by Ezra according to the Rebels Recon. With that going on, the Emperor is now focused solely on the Death Star and soon after that, Luke Skywalker. Lothal is a failed Imperial occupation no doubt, but the threat of the Rebel alliance takes precedence over a backwater planet that has no strategic value. Don't forget that not even Mon Mothma wanted to send rebel forces to aid Lothal until Ezra told her of the TIE defender project. Between that and the Lothal temple destroyed, the only reason the Emperor would want to devote resources to Lothal would be to set an example, and that's a waste of resources especially after Scariff happens.

 

Also as someone early said. It is likely that had one of the death stars been operational for long one of the first targets would likely have been Lothal.

 

I'm sure Lothal would have come right after Yavin if a certain young farm boy didn't blow it up. You don't target a planet that doesn't have the known rebel command base on it, you target it after you've just dealt with their only formidable ally in the galaxy. Like I said, Lothal had no strategic value, and even it's economic value was greatly diminished if the Empire's mining projects had gotten half way done with their work. It's only notable assets were literally gone (temple and thrawn/TIE defender). It's simply an ugly mark on the Empire's record. But an ugly mark is not as big as a threat as the Rebel Alliance on Yavin.

 

Spoiler

So that's it. Here at last. It ends where it began on a planet where a boy was lost, a girl who was broken and who fought alongside a war veteran, a fallen knight and a survivor where they were led into battle by a general to face an evil so terrible that it threatened to black out the light of the moon that in the end managed to shine brightly once more. Okay heartfelt reflecting aside this was a pretty well done finale and the best way they could have ended it.

As the anticipation was coming for this I felt reminded in the buildup and finally when I saw it complete of Avatar TLA's finale. A big final battle where all the characters from the show (most of them no mention of Lando, AP-5 or Azmorigan) come together to make a final stand, our main hero a boy is faced against the ultimate opponent and in the end defeats him in a way the villain nor our heroes could have predicted. Or maybe it was all a coincidence but I couldn't help but think it and also homages to ROTJ as well.

While the focus remained on Ezra as it should be I guess I'm glad for the most part everyone gets a moment. Sabine and Ezra's trust on each other builds and she shows her skills as a leader and I like the point Dave made about their relationship that they don't always have to be romantic. Sometimes a connection can be built on compassion and friendship and understanding one another without it being romantic. It's why I like the Jyn and Cassian relationship in Rogue One. You know they cared for each other in someway but it's up to you whether you thought it was romantic or not.

To see their relationship build from Ezra having a crush that wasn't returned and Sabine not taking him seriously to them trusting one another was a good character growth that I'm glad we saw through to the end with that mirror of the first episode with Ezra and then Sabine doing the same thing in the epilogue being a nice way to tie it together.

Of course love can be powerful as well as Hera and Kanan showed. Their relationship was well done and built upon helped by Freddie and Vanessa's performances I think. And I'm glad Kanan has a legacy and Hera of course as we know continues to fight but again like everyone else I'm confused as to when and how it happened and how far along was Hera especially considering she went through a lot during her capture that could in reality have hurt the baby in the long run but I guess we just have to suspend our disbelief for a happy ending.

Hera honestly might be my favourite character in Star Wars Rebels and my favourite Vanessa Marshall role (which is tough considering she's voiced many characters I like especially from comics like Zatanna) so I'm glad she finally decided to not only honour what she set out to do which was to keep fighting until the Empire was done but also honour what Kanan was suggesting by raising a family alongside that. While I don't expect it to happen if she were to turn up in Episode IX helping the Resistance or another film I wouldn't be opposed to it.

Sabine again like Ezra it was great to see her character grow from someone who was broken and introverted to reclaiming her homeworld and making amends there while keeping with her new family was well handled. We see it through her and Ezra's eyes I suppose and I'm curious as to where she will go next.

As for some of the other characters again glad Zeb got a moment to shine and his rivalry with Rukh paid off in the end as he got to take him out. After Rukh went through one to many close corners of survival in this finale and throughout the season I was kind of happy to see him fried in the end. Zeb's message and Thrawn's bewildered shock was a funny moment and now he won't kill Thrawn so that will fall to someone else eventually.

As for him and Kallus at the end? Who knows where that will go but again I'm glad Kallus got to see his redemption through and now goes to Lira San and is able to attone for the past and he and Zeb who were enemies in the beginning end this as friends which we wouldn't have suspected in the beginning. I heard someone call them the Legolas and Gimli of Rebels and we have a Lord of the Rings title reference in the first episode of the three parter and Ahsoka looks similar to Gandalf at the end with her staff and robes we could have gotten a line along the lines of

"Never thought I'd die fighting side by side with someone who was Imperial. Especially you Alexsandr."-Zeb

"What about side by side with a friend?"-Kallus

"Yeah. I can do that"-Zeb

I don't know that's just me. Hondo had great moments of hilarity and heartfelt moments with his promise to stand by Ezra and his mourning of Melch before finding out he survived. I really think Hondo is damaged by the loss of his crew and is masking it with his usual happy pirate attitude. Of course I spent the whole time hoping he wouldn't die and then it turns out I had nothing to worry about as his survival was confirmed on Wookieepedia after I looked him up there when it was over. He's alive well into the time of the First Order apparently because of some ride at Disneyland that's opening that I guess they are treating as canon. Also glad the "They can fly!" line made it into an episode after it was cut from an earlier one. Now I await to see him and Melch make a cameo in one of the live action stand alones.

Rex, Wolffe and Gregor teaming up one final time was great. I suspected one of them to go and knew it wasn't going to be Wolffe because he is Dave's creation and favourite Clone (He was just waiting to make that Wolf pack joke wasn't he?) and the last living connection to Plo Koon and Rex he wasn't going to kill because he wanted him to be at the battle of Endor which now we know he is. And Rex I guess has been promoted. Or maybe he was always promoted and he was just hanging onto Captain for old time's sake? So in the end Gregor was the only one left to go but I'm glad he got a heroic death. You will be remembered Captain Gregor. We will take the story of your heroic sacrifice back to the Rebellion and we will wait the day we see you again on the other side.

And in regards to how the villains were played I liked Palpatine's small role. Liked that we got to see his old persona again even though I'm not sure why he thought he could tempt Ezra that way since as Ezra pointed out he knew he was deceiving him appearance wise but as Luke said his overconfidence is his weakness. Liked that the Royal Guards came in for a brief moment (Although their lack of robes due to animation budget will probably have many people think they were the Praetorian Guard or something).

Pryce had her Cutler Beckett moment as everything exploded around her but I kind of thought she'd be like Phasma and try to save her own skin and that while she's loyal to the Empire she still would have tried to save herself but I guess like Ryder said without his help there wouldn't have been time to get out. She remained defiant in the end and bitter yes but there was no sign of disbelief or bewilderment at the prospect of defeat in her face. Then again you could say that was all shown already when she was faced with the Wolves in the first episode which was clearly Dave having fun but it made for an epic, brutal and exciting moment.

Nonetheless that feeling was mostly translated to Thrawn in his final moments. Having him win in strategy and logic was of course a no brainer and Ezra knew that. He knew Thrawn's weakeness was the unexpected thing that he couldn't understand or prepare for which was the Force and Thrawn admits this in his conversation with Ezra and this ultimately was his downfall in Legends too that he trusted a crazed Jedi clone that wasn't going to end well and of course someday the past would catch up with the Noghri and they'd learn the truth of that deception so the betrayal by Rukh was inevitable and again the Force defeats him here.

In the end the Bendu called it "I see your defeat. Like many arms surrounding you in a cold embrace" I wasn't expecting it to be that literal. But the Purrgil were unexpected and I wouldn't have called it either. I kind of thought the line would have played in Thrawn's head as he had that moment of staring out the window and looking at the tentacles surround his ship muttering "But it was so artistically done" in response but I guess that maybe would have been too obvious and on the nose. Glad Pellaeon got a mention not sure if he survived Wookieepedia currently doesn't list him as dead in canon but they were sort of unclear what happened to the rest of the Seventh Fleet? They said they were destroyed but while we see some ships be rammed into not all of them are shown falling but Thrawn's is the only one we clearly see vanish. Or maybe there were others vanishing and I didn't notice. Still this was a good explanation as to why Ezra and Thrawn didn't participate in the OT and leaves the door open for the future and I'm glad they did that for Thrawn rather than kill him off here.

As for Ezra's sacrifice I thought again it was a noble one. You could argue which one was more heroic him or Kanan since Kanan did die and Ezra is out there somewhere but I think to sacrifice himself seemingly to save his planet and people was just as noble and plays into his character. All he wanted was to see Lothal free and he got that wish in the end and if he could accomplish that then he knew his mission was done. He knew the defeat of the Emperor and Vader wasn't his destiny to bare. He set a goal and did it. May the Force be with you Ezra Bridger. And we will watch for your return.

Now whether or not the victory of Lothal could be considered a big Rebel victory I don't know. To have it not be attacked since that day you could say was odd but I guess Palpatine thought enough time was wasted there and he couldn't allow for anymore resources to be wasted so he decided to put all attention into the Death Star I guess. I am curious though if Sabine did go back to Mandalore at any point or did she stay there the entire time? Same for Zeb and Kallus. Again we know they go to Lira San and Hera and Rex again partake at the Battle of Endor with Hera having gone to Scarrif, Yavin and Hoth beforehand but did anyone else fight as well? Guess that's for future material to figure out.

As for that ending with Ahsoka and Sabine? Who knows where that will go but I don't think it'll be the next show's primary focus. It'll be an element I'm sure but the next show whatever that may be will have to forge it's own identity in the same way Rebels did even if it became a sequel to Clone Wars as time went on.

And so that ends Rebels. Wow 4 years it's hard to believe it's been so long. I was into my final year of secondary school in 2014 and now life has changed for me both good and bad since then. I grew up with Clone Wars and while I was sad to see it go I was curious to see where the next show would go and I enjoyed discussing it with you all during that time of buildup and seeing the show unfold. Now to see it go and end on it's own terms it's a bittersweet feeling but also a sense of completion and while maybe some people might think the finale might not be what they wanted I thought it was the best way for the show to go out. To Dave, the writers, the crew and animators, to Kevin Kiner to the cast Freddie, Vanessa, Taylor, Steve, Tiya and the rest of the cast I thank you for creating this show that for sure had it's ups and downs like Clone Wars but I enjoyed nonetheless from beginning to end. And to Kanan Jarrus, Hera Syndulla, Ezra Bridger, Garazeb Orrellios, Sabine Wren and C1-10P AKA Chopper I bid you all a very fond farewell. Until we see you again that is.

Onwards and forwards. Let's go Rebels. Onto the next adventure.

 

Even with the whole "Ashoka isn't a Jedi" thing, I still feel she takes away some of Luke's thunder in a post-RoTJ setting.

I have enjoyed tales about the the "last of ones kind". So I do prefer a version of star wars before his academy, where Luke becomes the last man when it comes to the jedi religion.

No one else who is alive that he can encounter who has or had jedihood.

While Ahsoka doesn't see herself as a jedi anymore, she still hold important knowledge and skill that if could improve the probability of future jedi coming to be.....or at least jedi like force users. Could be through passing valuable information to Luke which helps in his academy. Or Filoni getting the "bright" idea for Ahsoka to acquire her own apprentice, and create a off shoot of a jedi order.

Luke has gotten plenty taken away from him in the new continuity. His apprentice turns against him, his other students murdered or fall to the darkside. He isn't allowed to truly train Rey and help to bring about another jedi order. Now he is only the "Last Jedi" within a technicality, with Ezra and Ahsoka still being alive. That of course can likely change if those two get offed before the Academy.

This situation star wars is in by giving us other jedi (or ex ones that are still jedi like) during Lukes heroic journey and his quest to bring back the Jedi has been a problem that has happened before. Legends was worse in that aspect. But with the canon wipe I was hoping it wouldn't happen again.

It also lame because with the various eras star wars gives us, their is still so much room to see jedi in action while not treading on Luke's "Last Jedi" period.

 

Tie Defender was still around during the Battle of Jakku(so its not likely all production stopped) and Tie Adavanced of a different model was used by Vader in ANH. Apparently the Defender's design was the basis for the FO's Tie Silencer so it does not appear the schematics were recovered by the Rebels. Not even Tie Interceptors were a new design by ROTJ and Rogue One introduced us to the Tie Striker. So its not like either the Defender or the Advanced was all that important to their war effort or somehow the end of Imperial engineering and production.



I think the no counterattack against Lothal is just a bridge too far and its too tidy a happy ending. The Rebels and growing rebellion would only use Lothal as a rallying call(something they kinda already been doing since Season One ) and this was a monumnetal victory for the rebels whether or not Mothma's Alliance was officially involved or not. Moreover Lothal and its natural resources could always been used by the Rebellion or its secrets found by other Force sensitives(Jai Kell).

The planet always seemed to have been clearly very important to the Emperor(and I suppose always from Season One we only learn why cause of the temple but its true significance ever comes into play until the final episodes) and the temple only went back underground and apparently parts of it were miraculously saved,or taken beforehand, and transported to a Star Destroyer and rebuilt where it was another operational gateway.

At least Dathomir was invaded twice, even by elite evil leaders having to duke it out , here the Empire & the Emperor(and that includes Vader) just gives up,lol.

 

They have more important fish to fry after Yavin so they focus on that. It’s not stretching anything by any means.

 

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that you're trying to find a logical explanation, but I still can't buy it. Like, not every resource is gonna be spent against Luke and the Rebels. I mean, just look at the U.S. right which is currently fighting five wars at once. The Empire has the forces to police an entire galaxy. That's its sole justification for existing. Spanking some backwater to make a point should be no problem. Or, at the very least, Lothal would make a nice hostage world. Just a nice, fat anti-Imperial target ripe for pointing your guns at to Base Delta Zero. Just seems sloppy to say the Empire never came back, especially since the rest of Star Wars emphasizes how worried the Empire is about looking weak and making everyone tow the line. The line was totally unnecessary and wasn't needed for the happy ending. Something like "as war waged through the galaxy, Ezra's example inspired his people to defend their home as the Empire tried to retake the planet. Through perseverance and hope, they maintained their homeworld's liberty until the day finally came that the whole galaxy was free" would have had just as much meaning, if not more. Though I don't know, if they establish the Galactic Civil War as something more than a monolithic Alliance vs Empire thing and instead its a bunch of independent insurrections spreading the Empire thin while the Alliance sneaks around to cut its throat maybe I can buy it. At least in that scenario Lothal would just be one of too many fires to put out.

 

Agreed. Palpatine had a lot on his plate and likely decided to let Lothal have its victory before bringing the Death Star along to make an example of it later ...... except that Luke blew up that plan, literally.

 

Space whales just made off with an entire imperial fleet. Considering how fantastically improbable that is, I think I'd just wash my hands of the whole thing, too. Palpatine's luck, space squids would steal the Death Star.

 

Perhaps, but I think other pieces of canon like that Battlefront novel alluded to the Empire punishing planets that had uprisings after Yavin, and in Lothal's case, there wouldn't be a lot now to stop a handful of Imperial vessels from showing up to finish razing cities. The whole fact that a handful of random misfits blew up a whole garrison alone would be a propaganda coup they'd like to crush.

That being said, I think just making it ambiguous again would be fine--that way you could take Lothal having a happy ending, or still having to battle to keep it's freedom during the civil war.

 

When they said in the Recon for "The Call" that Purrghills were involved in the development of hyperdrives, I suspected that Purrghills were going to be important in a later episode.

 

Wasn't the Empire on Lothal for its Kyber crystals or something? I was thinking that would be plenty of reason for the Empire to come back.

 

nope. Officially, Lothal was the center of production for the TIE Advanced and later the Defender. Unofficially, it was an entrance to a plane of existence which The Emperor sought access to. Both of those interests were destroyed. Off-worlders such as Tarkin otherwise thought of it as a backwater.
The Kybers were a subplot to remind the audience how close the show takes place to Rogue One. Lothal's concentration of kyber is actually scarce, and there's a likelihood Ezra's original kyber crystal for his blaster saber didn't even come from Lothal, as he attained it after he unconsciously accessed the World between Worlds to commune with Yoda.

 

That doesn't seem to justify the lengths the Empire went to to subjugate Lothal. There's no reason why TIE Defenders should be built on Lothal as opposed to some much more secure location like Corellia or Kuat that's out of the reach of the rebels. As for the Jedi Temple, you hardly have to occupy the whole planet just to get access to it...if anything Palpatine could have just gone there with a small security detail without attracting much attention from anyone.

 

Just watched the episode. So....

Ezra and Thrawn are in the outer regions - does anyone think there will be a future story where they maybe encounter Snoke?

Sabine and Ahsoka have gone to find Ezra - are they gathering characters in the outer regions for a show where Sabine, Ahsoka and Ezra are the central characters vs Snoke & Thrawn which keeps all of them out of the way during the OT movies?

Is everyone comfortable with Hera being retconned into the Battle of Endor?

 

Ahsoka is snoke

 

It's just my opinion but I really hope they don't start a fresh show, build on the characters and add a few more, walking dead have done it well even if it has dragged out.

 

Has he actually said that it was 10 years later? For all we know from the episode itself, the epilogue takes place after the fall of the Empire. So it could be just 5 or 6 years since the rest of the finale takes place in 1 or 0 BBY.

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