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Rebels Reconciling "The Last of the Jedi" with Rebels

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Grendelspyce, Mar 3, 2015.

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  1. Grendelspyce

    Grendelspyce Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Anyone else worried by this? It seems Filoni is preparing us for Jedi (oh, excuse me - "Force-users") running around just before, during and after the events of the OT.

    From a recent interview with StarWars.com:

    StarWars.com: I have a bit of a continuity challenge for you. In Return of the Jedi, Yoda tells Luke, “When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be.” But now he knows that Kanan and Ezra are out there. We obviously don’t know at this point what will happen to them, but is that something you’re aware of?
    Dave Filoni: I don’t see it as a challenge at all. It’s what the Sith call an absolute. When Obi-Wan says to Luke, “Your father was the greatest starfighter pilot in the galaxy,” is that true? Or is that something you tell a kid because you want him to believe his father was great? It doesn’t have to be empirical or absolutely true. Saying Luke is “the last,” is that a singular thing, or is he the last of a group? I don’t know.
    It definitely is something that comes up, and we discuss that moment all the time for what it could mean. It is possible to interpret it as, Luke is the last person that’s following the path as laid out by the Jedi Order, which we knew. The way of the Jedi is not the only way to use the light side of the Force. Luke is taught by Obi-Wan and Yoda, who very much followed the dogma of the day. So, he is the last of that line for sure. That’s absolutely true. But you don’t have to be a Jedi to use the Force. You don’t have to be a Sith to use the dark side.
    StarWars.com: Like the Inquisitor.
    Dave Filoni: Exactly. So, there’s definitely ways around it, but it’s definitely something that’s come up. It doesn’t mean we have to kill them, but it doesn’t mean that we won’t. We’ll have to see what makes sense.
    Then, in today's Rebels Recon for "Fire Across the Galaxy" he explains Ahsoka's white lightsabers this way:
    "They are white because she isn't a Jedi and she isn't evil so they reflect her non-affiliation."
    Ugh. Welcome to the Disney version of newspeak. Where Luke is the last of the Jedi but not the only light-side using, lightsaber swinging, Empire-opposing good guy. [face_dunno]


     
  2. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    i don't like it. yeah there might be some jedi out there hiding , but actually in the rebelion?
     
  3. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 ST/Anthology/Fan Films Manager and Ewok Enthusiast star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Maybe he's just saying this because it seems like bad PR to go out and say "Yeah, of course Ezra, Kanan and Ahsoka will have to die within a few years"?
     
  4. N00b32

    N00b32 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 16, 2015
    He does not need one, the EU knows of former Jedi at that time. Why is there all this hatred all the time, when the damage was done years ago ?
     
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  5. ifleninwasawizard

    ifleninwasawizard Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2014
    I'm open to any option. If Kanan, Ezra and Ahsoka all have a good reason to live past RotJ then I'm all on board.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: RotJ is itself a movie that relies on retcon's. So making a retcon to get past Yoda's words is totally in line with the spirit of RotJ.
     
  6. Vader'sGoodHand

    Vader'sGoodHand Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2014

    If you think about the way SW was done, they pigeon holed themselves with that statement what would be the ending to SW. They didn't allow themselves flexibility around that rule. Did Lucas think this far ahead? Maybe but that line has created a problem as soon as Ahsoka walked away from the Order.
     
    Immortiss likes this.
  7. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Once the OT was expanded into various video games, comics and novels the OT's narrative became obsolete, its fate was sealed with the PT and later TCW with Lucas around the same time himself helped personally guide/developed TFU as a direct sequel to ROTS and a prequel to ANH. He too also wanted to create a sequel trilogy.
     
  8. Tan-Wessel

    Tan-Wessel Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2001
    I'm good with it. The quality of the writing and purposes for change are great convincers.
     
  9. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    That doesn't mean I liked the EU's take on it anymore.

    It "doesn't have to be empirically true," but it sure does make for a better story when we can take characters at their word, rather than assuming that Yoda on his death bed is just telling Luke something that's technically true, but also negates to mention all the other Force wielding heroes out there opposing the Empire. If Ezra and Kanan were running around, you think he'd seek them out following the events of ANH, not wait three years to be tipped off by Obi-Wan's ghost to Yoda's whereabouts.

    The Emperor is just as threatened by these Force sensitive children springing up and ANY that could potentially train them. Even Tarkin, despite initially believing the Jedi to be extinct, begins to gradually admit that Kanan is a Jedi as far as he's concerned, the Inquisitor regarded him as a Jedi, I'm sure Vader will regard him as a Jedi.

    For Tarkin to all of a sudden be under the impression that the Jedi are extinct again as of ANH, is just weird, if Kanan and Ezra and Ahsoka are all still running around opposing the Empire. And when the Emperor fears Luke's power, Vader assures Palpatine that he's no threat since Obi-Wan can no longer help him. Don't you think he should be worried about Kanan taking Luke under his wing, or Ahsoka taking him under his wing, if either of those two are still at large?

    IMO, Filoni's logic here sucks. And trying to take advantage of a change in rhetoric doesn't solve the problem. Those three need to die, turn, or otherwise abandon the path their on and be believed to no longer be a threat.
     
  10. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    to me they might be out there somewhere , a few of them , but for Tarkin to say 'their fire has gone out of the universe' implies that they havn't been seen in a very long time.
     
    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR likes this.
  11. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    ANH is only 5 years off. I'd imagine that Ahsoka and Kanan at least are confirmed KIA by the Imperials by then. Ezra, could turn, be killed, or pull an Ahsoka and just give up (but that would be lame, IMO). Tarkin believing the Jedi to be extinct after 15 years is one thing. For Kanan and Ezra (and probably Ahsoka) to become such huge thorns in the Empire's side, and destroying Tarkin's flagship, all a mere five years prior to ANH (with probably more incidents between Fire Across the Galaxy and ANH, it's just weird if he goes back into being in denial because he hadn't seen them in three months or something. I'd imagine the problem individuals are probably confirmed KIA, unless one of them ends up being Boba Fett's "disintegrated" bounty.
     
  12. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    The ship has sailed long ago for me. Why even bother ?
     
  13. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    The quote from ROTJ is this: "...the last of the Jedi, you will be." This is open to interpretation as to what Yoda meant in his final moments, and it could be that the story group has interpreted it as meaning the last of the Jedi trained in the line of the Old Order that was purged in ROTS.

    Filoni's choice to have her lightsabers be white, and state that she isn't a Jedi (since she willingly left the order), supports the position. As others have mentioned, the Legends/EU supports this idea as well (I believe in the EU/Legends Bail made it a point to gather other Jedi that survived the purge for the rebellion), and we knew going into this show that the show would draw upon EU/Legends material. This doesn't mean that all of the Jedi characters in Rebels will make it to the end of the series, or to the events in ANH.

    Someone mentioned it in another thread:
    While he has an apprentice, it could very well be that since the Order has been destroyed that he can never become a true Jedi Knight even though he may have gone through the prerequisite requirements to be one. You could make the argument that Ahsoka would be a Jedi Knight as well, had she not decided to leave the Order, but since she did she can't become a Knight either.
     
  14. kubricklynch

    kubricklynch Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012

    I didn't like it when the EU did it either. One of the cool things to me about the reboot was the chance to correct the errors of the EU not repeat them.
     
  15. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Some consistency between sources or at least taking something from the OT seriously would be nice for once but that won't happen.
    The EU did have the same problem but the only one I truly had a problem with was K'khruk and Tra Saa surviving until Legacy. Jedi going dark is fine or going hermit and depending on their role (not helping too much in the galactic scheme of things) helps me determine these things.
    Ashoka should have been killed years ago.

    Luke should be the one to confront Vader and the Emperor and end the threat and begin the NJO. No one else.
     
  16. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Lucas's original storyline made telling stories prior and after 4-6 it a problem as the dialogue isnt meant for a 1-3 or in between expansions that carry on in-universe months and years. I think he back himself into a small space, and thats why there is many retcons and anachronistic problems since the PT or before. Filoni has a lot to work with . He has to explain not all the Jedi were killed, and new Force sensitives being born in the Empire and some in the Outer RIm in the interim whom Sidious's Adepts and Military can detect and decide whether to kill them or train/enslave them. He's also has the problem that the Sith code would not allow really for all these Force sensitives running around either, but these goodies being provide cannot be wasted entirely either.

    Lucas seemed OK with what he allowed with the TFU and rebels is following along parallel storytelling, I dont see it as a problem in that regard. In the regard of these changes trying to work there way into OT's narrative, they do not really work and come across more like a virus trying to take over a healthy cell.
     
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  17. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    She will not die. They will find another way for her as always but it is obvious she, Kanan and Ezra are not going to die.
     
  18. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Leia was not a Jedi, but she was a "Force-user" in ESB and RotJ, though to a limited capacity as she hadn't been trained as a Jedi.
     
  19. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    You would think that these three surviving is just going to pass on a can of worms to ROTJ/Episode VII.

    Who is to say that these three can never be Jedi? Yoda deemed Luke a Jedi, so long as he confronted Vader. And he also told Luke to pass on what he learned. If Kanan, Ezra and Ahsoka are all still floating around. You'd think those three would be first in line to be his apprentices. Which would just be weird, given that Luke got the two minute crash course in what it means to be a Jedi, while Ahsoka and Kanan trained their whole lives. Say these characters survive, where do you go from there that gives a satisfying end to their story arcs? The two padawan that survived Order 66, went on to oppose the Empire using their Jedi training, but then said **** this, I'm not apprenticing myself to Luke? What does Ezra say? No thanks, I'm good with being trained by a failed padawan, I don't want another master?

    Is Luke going to try to rebuild the Jedi Order with all these other non-Jedi but still good Force users running around saying, "nah I'm good, I don't need any Jedi training and I turned out all right?" The movies seem to stress that the Jedi are all about discipline, because without it there is the temptation of the Dark Side and the Jedi have to stress a strict sense of duty and responsibility. When you have a bunch of light side people running around and turning out OK in the absence of proper training, it kind of makes you think the Jedi aren't so important.

    Or what about these failed Padawans doing their best to redeem themselves for their perceived weaknesses (Kanan and Ahsoka both "ran" and survived Order 66 because of it), only to fall because they weren't fully trained Jedi Knights, which Yoda insists is a prerequisite to standing up to Vader. Yet in their tragedy, they still found the Rebel Alliance and pave the way for Luke. It gives meaning to their journeys, but they still die, and it doesn't distract from Luke's journey in any way.

    That seems like a greater purpose in narrative, than throwing characters in the story just because you can.
     
  20. Vader'sGoodHand

    Vader'sGoodHand Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2014

    That actually makes for a great tie up for Ahsoka. She ran once and probably ended up regretting it, well she won't run this time. No matter what the sacrifice.

    This is gonna suck
     
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  21. DarthTalgus

    DarthTalgus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    GL's words is law, and it's in the movies so in my head canon, Ezra is already dead ;)
     
  22. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Ahsoka, Kanan and Ezra, are all in the same ship, which crash lands on a planet without civilization. Where they spend the entire OT era living on the planet, and trying in vain to leave. Sometime after the OT another ship finds their location.

    Problem solved, and none of them had to die.

    And that is why Luke never head about nor encountered those three.
     
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  23. newdawn12

    newdawn12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2013
    George is gone, Kiri Hart snd Kathleen Kennedy are in charge now.
     
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  24. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014


    I am curious as to how Tano didnt know about Leia, while she was with Bail most if not the entire time following ROTS. Leia really didnt believe in the Force or Jedi in ANH, Kenobi was only described as a General and he comes off as a last ditch effort to get him back into service. There was never any effort to train Leia or Luke by either Kenobi or Yoda, and possibly none from Tano to Leia.
     
  25. Hopeless

    Hopeless Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2006
    There is not just light and dark, as there are not just only Jedi and Sith Force Users, there is however the Force and it remains a powerful ally indeed!

    Now if only I can figure out how to SIG this!
     
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