Reflections of a Traitor- Jacen Solo Discussion Thread-Closing Shop!

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I'm thinking we might have a lot to talk about our dear Jacen now that Bloodlines is out. Most notably, how it is that people/characters falling toward evil rarely see their actions as evil, and how hard that line is to tread as an author.

 

Well I must say that for me Karen Traviss did a phenomenal job of walking that fine line. Even as I drew back in shock and revulsion at some of the things Jacen was saying and doing, when he began to justify his actions, both internally and externally, I found myself having to stop and think about the situation again. At times I even found myself nodding and saying, "Okay, that makes sense." I think that ability by those who do evil to rationalize their actions is what makes them such an enigma.


And much as I hate to admit it, YodaKenobi was right all along. Vergere did begin Jacen?s Sith training.

 

Stop! It'll go to his head!

 

I'm used to it

 

*pops Yobi's ballooning head with a sharp needle*

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Does anyone else have the sneaking suspicion Jacen is just a pawn in a bigger game being played by Lumiya? Perhaps Ben is really the endgame?

I know Jacen tested Lumiya by putting her face to face with Luke, but maybe killing Luke isn't the objective? Maybe making Luke's only son a Sith is.

And on the subject of the Chicken Sith better known as Vergere. Are we sure she's really dead?

 

I think you're on to something TKL.

I've seriously doubted Lumiya's benevolence as a guide to Jacen. She's doing more manipulating than guiding.

She also continually questions his decision to take Ben as his apprentice. After asking once, it seemed very suspicious.

I think she's as real a Sith as any of them, artificial limbs and all. If Jacen doesn't kill her soon, and truly take charge, I think it will be clear that he is her pawn.

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If Jacen doesn't kill her after what happens with TK and Allana, I think we'll know he's simply being used to get back at Luke. I'd hate to see that happen, but they can't seem to hand the mantle off to the kids, no matter how many times they say they're going to. The galaxy is still the Luke Skywalker show. I hope Jacen the Sith actually gets to be a Sith, and not a pawn like his grandfather spent most of his life.

 

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That's exactly what makes me wonder about Jacen. He's following in Vader's footsteps to the tee and we all know Vader was a big time pawn. Maybe Jacen isn't even the Vader figure. Maybe Jacen is Dooku? He'll be handless and headless besides from the true heir to the Sith.

 

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Lumiya is undoubedly using Jacen, but so is he using her. It's the way the Sith always work. I don't think Jacen has any qualms about killing Lumiya if she gets inconvienent. He just wants the knowledge he can get from her.

 

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It would be fitting vengence to turn Ben into a Vader to get back at Luke. I think Ben's pretty far from being able to kill Jacen at this point, but if Jacen did something too wrong (like attack TK and Allana) in Ben's presence, Ben might intervene and go too far. They did build Anakin up in the last series only to kill him and shift the whole focus to the twins. It would be interesting to see Jacen used just to get to Ben. Definitely make things in the Skywalker/Solo family interesting. indeed.

I wonder how the Jedi are going to deal with his "moral flexibility," and the Guard? If Luke and Jaina are the only ones that can see darkside anymore, I'm terrified for the Jedi. Maybe the Jedi really are too close to the GA?

 

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I agree, Yobi, that Jacen can and might kill Lumiya. I'll be rooting him on.

Padawanlost, I think the "moral flexibility" will be one of the issues dealt with in this story arc for sure. It'll be interesting to see who stands where in the end.

 

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I was just PM-ing about this with WyoJedi. How about the idea that Lumiya is just using Jacen to come to power...or POWWWWWWAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

Ahem...kinda like Palpatine using Vader. Sorry if this has already been addressed. I think at the end of Bloodlines we see Ben coming to his parents for help. This may be the end of Jacen's influence. Perhaps?

 

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I certainly hope that Ben, with his parents help, will get away from Jacen before Ben gets completely corrupted. Jacen, on the other hand, need serious medication!

I'm also hoping that Lumiya gets hers. Soon. Although I would prefer that Luke do it...

 

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Jade_Pilot and dianethx:

My fear is that Jacen holds more influence over Ben than either of his parents, and as long as they can't agree, I think Jacen wins. If Jaina has any leverage she might be able to help, but they don't seem to want to touch her character. At the beginning of DN, Ben seemed attached to her too, since she was around much more while he was growing up, and Jacen was off learning his cool evil powers. Hopefully that wasn't just Denning pulling our chains. If she and Luke go to Mara, I think they could convince her, and then maybe they could all convince Ben.

I fear it's going to take something really bad to drive Ben away- like Jacen killing TK like Lumiya is edging him toward. As long as Jacen lets him slide farther down the path slowly, he'll never have a chance to get away. It doesn't help that Jacen can erase memories and travel through time, and all the other crazy stuff he can do. I'm wondering when he's going to do something really crazy with his new powers. (let mad Jacen time-traveling plot bunnies abound)

On that note, Lumiya didn't tell Jacen to kill TK and Allana- Jacen came to that conclusion on his own. Lumiya's "ultimate challenge" on p.377 lets Jacen make all the conclusions. He's gonna be really mad when he realizes what he's doing, and has no one to blame but himself. All the while he tries to avoid his grandfather's fate, he falls deeper and deeper into the same trap.

 

But what if Lumiya is 'influencing' Jacen's mind? I think she may be more powerful than we think.

 

Indeed. If she's manipulating him, then its all to get back at the family. It still doesn't account for everything Jacen did before he met her.

I guess we'll have to see what Denning has for us in november

 

I've been wondering about that as well. It doesn't seem beyond the realm of her capabilities...

How much longer do we have to wait?

 

I was also thinking that. She seems to be around whenever he comes to stupid, illogical decisions.








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Like when he decided that Ben had to learn about killing and being tested and deliberately sent the kid into a situation where it could and did get ugly fast. And also the time he decided to kill Tenel Ka and their child. He came to that conclusion with Lumiya there and then kept thinking about it afterwards - almost as if she did a mind trick on him and he can't get past the trap. He may indeed be a pawn to get to Ben. It would make sense that Lumiya was trying to get revenge on Luke, too.

 

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The thing is that while Jacen did hold a decent amount of influence over Ben in Betrayal it's only in Bloodlines where it's so unnaturally unhealthy for the Ben/Luke/Mara relationship. In Betrayal Ben talked to his parents, he confided in Luke about the ani-bot and not Jacen. That's an incredibly different person than this "I don't talk to my parents" Ben who showed up in Bloodlines...

 

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I too think Lumyia is leading Jacen down a path that isn't as benevolent as she claims..."Peace for the Galaxy"... He is being manipulated just like Anakin had been. And sadder still is that it's not the first time either. Darth Chicken (hey, I really like that, I always wondered about her philosophy) also manipulated him to doing what she wanted him to do the Vong.

Think back to the scene in Betrayal in the asteroid after Jacen left Lumiya to go find Ben, and he told her that he'd think about taking up being a Sith. After Jacen left, the "ghost" or whatever it was, appeared and told Lumiya that he (the ghost) now had a name. But he also told her that Jacen would hate her for manipulating him. And she pretty much said that she knew that but it needed to be done.

But I don't think she is going through Jacen to get to Ben. I think she wants them both. The greatest revenge on the Skywalkers.

And Jacen is going to be really mad...but then anger is the way to the Dark Side, isn't it...that is exactly what she wants. He will hate her and himself as much as Vader hated Palpy and himself for what happened to Padmé. He is falling into the same trap, but then Lumiya was trained by Palpy and Vader....no matter what she is proclaiming them as being "damaged Sith who only wanted power." She not only wants power but she wants revenge.

I wouldn't be surprised that it comes out that she patiently waited for Jacen to do everything that he'd done just to get him ripe for picking...much the same way Palpatine did with Anakin. She had told Jacen that Veregre (sp?) {still like Darth Chicken better} had visited her after her escape from Han after giving him her tears for Mara. I think the two of them began this plot using one of the Solo kids as the next Sith back then. And it really wouldn't have mattered who was the victim. It could have as easily been Anakin or Jaina... the idea was to capture one of them, and make them suffer as much as she could, using the Vong's way. Break their spirit and then feed him/ or her as much Sith knowledge as possible.

But Darth Chicken also had an ulterior motive, use her new Sith (by the way this was around 30 ABY) to fight her personal war against the Vong without the unknowing Sith Apprentice even aware of it.

Jacen much like his grandfather won't realize what has happened to him until it is too late, probably when he has either TK's or Allana's blood on his hands and then it will be too late. He will have completely fallen to the Dark Side.



FL

 

Is there no hope that Anakin Solo can reappear ala blue ghostie and slap some sense into his brother? Or do you all think Jacen is past the point where he would even listen? I know the two brothers had their own disagreements when Anakin was alive.

 

I'm still holding out hope that a flesh n blood Anakin Solo will reappear and slap some sense into his brother....hopefully with the pointy end of his 'saber....

 

Anakin's still alive I've got a new theory on it

 

I've got a number of theories on it myself and I'm always up for more

 

I want to hear your theory! I so want Anakin Solo to be alive.

One of my personal gripes about Bloodlines:


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I don't think Traviss understands Luke and Mara at all. The characerization was so off, it didn't even feel like them. There was a huge difference between Betrayal and Bloodlines and I think Allston got L/M and Traviss did not.

The 'real' Luke wouldn't care if his son became a Jedi at the expense of his soul. If he had some doubts about the guy who was mentoring him, he would have hauled Ben's backside back to the temple in a NY minute. And Mara's danger sense is particularly sharp. How can she be missing the clues? Traviss writes her so dumb.

Just my 2 cents.