Reflections of a Traitor- Jacen Solo Discussion Thread-Closing Shop!

*spoilers*

and it flows nicely with my two cents. The people in Bloodlines are NOT the same folks I've read about all these years. But what do you expect to get from a writer who hasn't read the previous books...

 

Spoilers....

Exactly my thoughts on the subject. The way Mara is portrayed is a crime against Star Wars.

 

But how did she think she could write L/M is she didn't read the previous works? That's just sloppy.
Even Allston who writes a lot of Wedge and Co. (very nicely I might add) seemed to 'get' the whole L/M characterization. Mara went form Jedi uber-espionage-diva in Betrayal to dumb stick with red hair in Bloodlines. Way way off.

 

Spoilers....

She claims to have her own system for gathering the necessary information to write the novels. You can be the judge of how well that worked

 

Spoilers...






So Traviss never read the previous books? I did not know that. That sure explains how she is messing with the characterizations.

Betrayal Mara: In tune with the Force, attentive and powerful.

Bloodlines Mara: Boohoo, boohoo. My poor baby Ben. Oh Jacen is in love, that's why he's acting like a total jerk!

Cheers,
Wyo

 

Is it possible that is all part of the story that will be revealed down the road? Jacen is gradually showing some pretty scary gifts already. I remember a scene in Betrayal where Mara and Jacen are having a conversation and he makes a pretty threatening remark. What about the mind rubs he gives Ben? If her guard were down isn't it possible Jacen could be influencing her somehow?

 

I'm impatiently awaiting my copy of Bloodlines.

 

don't be that impatient. IMO it's one of those books I wish I could unread....

 

It's got me all impatient-like for Tempest, though. Which I was already anticipating for many reasons, but now I'm dying to see it.

Maybe when the DP comes out next month it will give us some clues about what will happen.

 

Yeah, that would be this:

Mara then pats her lightsaber and talks about cutting off his limbs. I think Mara's going to die.

 

And what about Ben himself? Lumiya seems certain he will make Jacen a wonderful apprentice and even mentions that he is already on the right path. Could Ben either by himself or with Jacen's help be keeping his parents oblivious to what's going on? When Luke mentions Ben going back to the academy all he can think about is how much Ben mimics Jacen's habits. Then all of a sudden you have Luke saying, "Sure, stay with your creepy Sith cousin longer." Just odd if you think about it too much.

 

I don't think Jacen is using any kind of Force skills to "alter" Luke and Mara's minds. He is too arrogant and doesn't think he needs to. The only thing I think Jacen did was hide Lumiya when she was in the temple and Luke approached.

Of course later Luke DOES realize that Lumiya is on Coruscant, but I don't think it concerns Jacen because of his arrogance.

The part that totally has me thinking that Lumiya is controlling Jacen a bit is the fact that he is now thinking he must kill Tenel Ka and his daughter. He's not even floored by his own realization, just convinced that he must do this.

 

He seemed pretty upset about it, actually, but not so upset that he wouldn't do it or tried to look for alternatives.

Because if he's that worried about his attachments, the less dishonorable thing to do would be just to cut himself off from them, tell TK that he's not interested anymore and doesn't want to see Allana (which wouldn't be true, but could become true) and get involved with someone else. Maybe Lumiya? I don't really like that outcome (even though I don't mind Jacen/Lumiya in some circumstances) but it's MUCH better than killing them, from a fan perspective and from a GFFA morality perspective.

 

That's kind of along my thinking now that I've absorbed the book. While Traviss didn't read the books I don't think Denning or Allston would avoid guiding her if a character was off from how they saw her. I'm beginning to think Mara's "out of character" behavior is done for a reason.

I think it's even possible Lumiya is influencing Mara. She's brought visions to quite a few players. We haven't seen much from Mara's POV to know what is driving her fears about Ben.

 

This, maybe?

 

Pretty much my thinking on the subject at this point. But if it is true, it's even more scarier than before to think of one person, Jacen, being that powerful.


And yet it makes him even more appealing as well.

 

That maybe

It's always the bad boys

 

Since I'm not sure what you were trying to say, could you distill it for me? What points were you trying to make?

 

Distilled. Yobi's link is to a thread he started in Lit, where he opens up a theory that Jacen has been manipulating Luke (and others) with the Force for some time.

The rest of the opening post from that thread is worth the read. But it bears some thought that perhaps the "out of character" feel for Luke and Mara isn't so much a failing from the authors (all accomplished in their own right) as much as a deliberate method to "show" the reader that Jacen is far more powerful than we truly have been "told."

This supports Obi_ew's suggestion that perhaps Ben isn't the only one getting mindrubs; maybe Mara is too. Perhaps even Luke?

 

I just have a hard time believing Jacen could be influencing Luke directly. Indirectly through manipulation of Ben and Mara, maybe, but messing with Luke's mind should be a little beyond his powers unless there's waaaay more that nobody's telling us yet.

 

The dark side can be impossible to perceive even when a Jedi knows it's there - case in point, Anakin to Obi-Wan in ROTS. Luke trusts Jacen in the NJO and before, much like Obi-Wan does with Anakin. He has no reason to suspect he would need to be cautious of such attempts, unlike Jaina, Tesar, Lowie and Tahiri who have experienced some manipulation and betrayal from Jacen. A Jedi's powers aren't turned on all the time; Luke is not all powerful every second of the day. It's not unthinkable his guard would be down and more open around Jacen.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant Sorry I wasn't clear, diane.

I've been wondering about that for awhile

But Luke forgetting something very basic about the Fallanassi? One of the only things Akanah ever told him? Jacen tells him the opposite and he doesn't bat an eye?

Either Denning was being incredibly sloppy with his use of the Fallanassi in the book or he was telling us something.

Great points. I agree 100%. Luke actually looked up to Jacen in the NJO. He viewed him as the Jedi's moral compass. He wants to believe Jacen, and Mara seems to be the same way now.

One of the great skills of the Sith seems to be their ability to hide. They don't call on the Force? they bend it to their will and manipulate those around them in the same way.



There is evidence in Betrayal that Jacen was studying Sith teachings in his 5 year vacation from the Jedi as I said awhile back. He can read one of the tassels Lumiya gave him, despite the fact expert on Lorrd can't? that tassel came from Ziost, a Sith world.

I started a thread about the tassels in lit and Thrawn McEwok had another piece of that I'd forgotten in Betrayal. An exchance between Jacen and Lumiya in which he hints that he's actually visited Ziost:

 

Great points. I agree 100%. Luke actually looked up to Jacen in the NJO. He viewed him as the Jedi's moral compass. He wants to believe Jacen, and Mara seems to be the same way now.

I would agree that Luke had wanted to believe Jacen, even though his feelings were telling him differently but now he's wary and with good reason. I think he would be on his guard around Jacen by now.


I do have to laugh. When I was at Dragoncon and in the room so I heard this pretty clearly. Aaron Allston was asked about pitting the writers against the readers in a trivia match and he said that the readers would win, hands down. They had done it in previous years and the readers had won easily. So it might be that as readers, we are reading much more into it than the writers intended. On the other hand, they love to play games with the readers. Aaron told me to assume nothing about this series! So I'm leaving my options open.

 

I was wondering about that, especially after reading the new Bane book. Jacen seems to mirror Bane in many ways as far as his thinking and methods. And Bane got most of his ideas from studying the old Sith books.

 

I actually have no doubt of that. The best evidence I've seen for mindcontrol Jacen is not the facts of the plot stories back but that I just can't see Denning or Allston allowing Mara and/or Luke to be portrayed "out of character" unless it's deliberate. I think Traviss is loving the fact that people are in an uproar that she didn't read the books, because they might be missing the bigger picture of what she's doing as an author. I've read everything she's written and I think she's better than missing a major character's portrayal.