PT Rewriting the Prequels...

I would think that the Jedi would peg Dooku as a Sith at the end of AotC.
He uses a Sith style lightsaber, he uses what Lucas calls "Sith powers", he has turned to the dark side and he is working with known Sith associates. Plus the Jedi know that an opening in the Sith order was made available about ten years ago.
The clues that he is a Sith are rather obvious and if the Jedi need three years to figure it out then they are very clueless.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

If they found out at all. The Jedi may very well have not noticed what Palpatine referred to Dooku as. Do the Jedi ever refer to Dooku as a Sith in ROTS?

 

Obi-Wan noticed - "Chancellor, Sith Lords are our speciality".


And certainly in TCW Dooku's Sithliness is so taken for granted that even his apprentice Ventress is sometimes called a Sith in-universe by some members of the Order.

 

Oh, you're right. I forgot about that.

 

??
are you even reading what I've said? Jango is a merc , he will have made various contacts over the years.

They keep him on Kamino ?
here's a quote from Taun-we:
"Jango , welcome back , was your trip productive?"



c'mon , man , you've had 20 years.

 

The Kaminoans literally say, "Oh, we keep him here." in relation to Jango.

 

Are you?
Unless you want to argue that Jango is the ONLY merc in the whole galaxy, there are others that Dooku could have hired.
And if you argue that Dooku hiring Jango was just a fluke, total co-incidence, then you need to consider the odds of that happening. If there are about 10 million other people that Dooku could have used and he picked Jango by pure chance, then the odds of that are very low. So low that anyone with any sense would not dismiss that as "co-incidence, means nothing."
It MIGHT be random chance but that should not be the first thing you go with because it is so unlikely.
Look into other alternatives first, like say past connection, Jango has worked for Dooku before.

Again I could say the same, watch the film.
As FightoftheForgotten said, the Kamino people say this;

As I said, Jango could leave but it is clear that he was based on Kamino for about ten years.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

@Samuel Vimes What if Sidious's initial plan was to execute Order 66 soon after he got dictator powers at the end of AOTC... but the Jedi were also supposed to find all this out, go to the senate, try to expose Palpatine, and then be declared traitors and killed off.

And since the Jedi were unable to put any of these clues together, Palpatine just prolonged the war until they found out. And since they never found out, he just turned Anakin to the darkside to speed up the process.

And before anyone tries to poke holes in my little "theory", this is meant as a joke.

 

Why post it?

 

Because @Samuel Vimes and I get along and we talk in these threads from time to time.

A lot of people come in here to talk actually.

 

Whatever.

 

Obi-Wan was very good at piecing together clues in TPM. Not even 20 minutes into the movie, with scant details, and the man is already able to explain the TF's entire game plan to Boss Nass. Obi-Wan immediately is able to piece together that the TF intends to invade Naboo AND once they take control of the surface they will also take control of the Gungan cities as well. Keep in mind, Obi-Wan has no concrete proof what the TF's pan is concerning Naboo at this point. The TF could have been invading Theed in order to get the "Kremulack Amulet" which has enough power to run the entire TF war machine for centuries... but no. Obi-Wan immediately cracks the case.

Fast-forward ten years and, even with a heap of evidence and connections, Obi-Wan is completely overwhelmed by the Kamino investigation and is not able to piece hardly any of the clues together.

Weird.

 

Taking this thread too literally (ha!), new crawls!:

EPISODE I:

Turmoil has engulfed the GALACTIC REPUBLIC. After greedy politicians granted corporations representation within the Galactic Senate, shipping lanes to the Outer Rim have been privatized.

Hoping for a quick resolution, the dubious Trade Federation has stopped all shipping to the tranquil planet of Naboo with a fleet of deadly battleships.

As the Senate endlessly debates these events, the Supreme Chancellor has secretly dispatched two Jedi Knights, guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy, to end the blockade....

EPISODE II:

There is unrest in the Galaxy. As the chaos grows, the limited number of Jedi Knights are being stretched to their limit as they struggle to maintain order.

Under the leadership of a former Jedi Master, Count Dooku, thousands of dissatisfied systems are on the verge of seceding from the Galactic Senate.

Queen Amidala, the current leader of Naboo, is arriving on Coruscant to address the Senate in a desperate attempt to hold the REPUBLIC together....

EPISODE III:

The Clone Wars rage on. The REPUBLIC is suffering from years of conflict. Defending against constant attacks by the ruthless Sith Lord, Count Dooku, the Jedi Order is dwindling.

In a stunning move, the SEPARATIST droid leader, General Grievous, has invaded the capital of Coruscant and kidnapped Supreme Chancellor Palpatine.

As the Droid Army attempts to flee the besieged capital with their valuable hostage, two Jedi Knights lead a desperate rescue mission....

 

Huh?

 

After reviewing the PT again, I really like seeing the growth of the main characters. I would say Sidious should have been in this group and been a apprentice to Plagueis during the first half of the movie then have a scene with him killing him in his sleep. Also in this first half of movie, have Anakin found by Qui Gon then go 10 years later for the second half for Clone Wars finale.

 

Padme really needs changing , she's just so dull. I can't believe Lucas went from Leia who's a really feisty great character to this .

 

Something I noticed for the first time in the Return of the Jedi comic adaptation was a bit of dialogue about how Obi-Wan first met Anakin during the Clone Wars, seeing that he was already an accomplished pilot and strong in the Force. It was at this point where Obi-Wan took it upon himself to train Anakin as Yoda had for him. Since this dialogue was deleted from the final film, it doesn't create any continuity errors, but it does give some more insight into Lucas' early PT plans.

This makes me think that the original plan for the prequels wouldn't have focused on the outbreak of the Clone Wars, unless the first film would have focused on Obi-Wan or Anakin alone since they would not meet until after a time jump.

On the topic of original Return of the Jedi plans, it stands to reason that the third film would have focused on a time jump since the birth of the Skywalker twins. Time jumps and flashbacks weren't utilized before the Disney era during films (correct me if I'm wrong), so I'm theorizing that the third film would follow a three year old Leia when her biological mother passes away (thus the original plan of Leia remembering her mother). This period might also cover the spread of the Empire and Vader hunting down the remaining Jedi. Obi-Wan may also have had some interactions with Luke at this time due to Luke's vague familiarity with him.

In this hypothetical world where the third prequel features a fully-formed Darth Vader, it'd be more imperative to show Anakin and Obi-Wan's friendship for one-and-a-half films instead of dedicating a film to the start of the Clone Wars that wouldn't have included one of them. What's left then becomes very similar to the premise for A New Hope: we start in the middle of a galactic conflict, which eventually brings us to Obi-Wan taking up a teenaged farmboy as his Jedi apprentice.

I think it's still impressive how the final prequels still hit on all the key moments, but how the timeline shifts between films seems to be the subject of the most changes.

 

Maybe it’s from Gary Kurtz. Maybe other sources or notes. The plan at one point during the making is the OT was for episode 1 to almost be a stand alone movie. Instead of diving right into the Skywalker story, the first movie would have been more about the galaxy in general and the Jedi at their peak.

 

That would've likely been better received.

 

Well bits of what you mention is in RotJ.
Obi-Wan saying that when he first met Anakin he was already a great pilot and he was amazed how strong the Force was with him. Leia having memories of her and Luke's mother.

Making a PT where we have Vader for one whole film.
You would need to start with an older Anakin in ep I, have the clone war start there or have it be a thing already. Obi-Wan meets Anakin and he decides to take him with him and train him. Anakin meets Luke and Leia's mother and they take a liking to each other.
Ep II would have more of the war, Anakin has become harder and colder from the war and his relationship with Padme and Obi-Wan are both crumbling and at the end of the film, he leaves Padme, not knowing she is pregnant. They never did marry.
It does not have to end with Anakin turning, it could be him leaving the Jedi as he views them as not being able to end the war.
Ep III could have Anakin working directly for Palpatine, but not turned and not knowing who Palpatine really is. So he and the Jedi are sort of on the same side as they are fighting for the Republic.
You could even have Obi-Wan trying to bring him back to the Jedi, saying "We are on the same side." But Anakin isn't interested.
Luke and Leia's mother has married Bail Organa and they have a child, Leia and she is presented as their real daughter, not adopted.
Some Jedi manage to find out who Palpatine really is and that he has been playing both sides and they come to arrest him but Anakin is there. They try to explain but a fight breaks out and Anakin kills them.
This leads to the turn and Anakin adopting the Vader name and starts to hunt down the Jedi.

There was a very early idea where Star Wars was ep VI.
Ep I was a prologue film, 2-4 was the PT, 5 was an in-between film. The OT was 6-8, another in-between film and then 10-12 was the ST.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

I think just about everything in the comic adaptation was filmed. A couple scenes were only discovered to have been filmed in the 2010s; Luke's lightsaber construction, Yoda convincing Obi-Wan not to tell Luke the truth about Vader, and even Palpatine turning the Death Star on Endor if the Rebels succeed. The only scene probably not filmed was an alternate sail barge fight where Luke gets a hole blown through his hand. But I digress; I believe they were working from a later script than the novel; Obi-Wan being Owen's brother probably didn't make it to filming.

With a more standalone film, the Clone Wars could have been an even more widespread conflict over many years if there was a larger time gap. Might play off of Luke's surprise that Ben fought in a historic war during its waning years. The prequels had to cover a lot of ground during its relatively limited timeframe, so I can understand an entire film as a precursor to the universe.

That does present another possibility for how Vader would be unaware of his offspring. The only lingering question really is why Leia's mother would give Luke away and intend to raise Leia herself. Revenge of the Sith rectified the issue by just ignoring Leia remembering her real mother. I know some have interpreted this as her talking about her adoptive mother, but it runs counter to the intention of the scene; especially with Luke emphasizing her real mother.

 

Leia's memories are from the Force, which can come in dreams and can show glimpses of both the future and the past. They are of Padme, not Breha, as we just saw in OWK.


"The man Leia called Father was obviously not her father. He is part of the group that ends up having to fight Darth Vader in the film that will be out in 2003 [laughs]. The part that I had never really developed is the death of Luke and Leia's mother. I had a back story for her in earlier drafts, but it basically didn't survive. When I got to JEDI, I wanted one of the kids to have some kind of memory of her because she will be a key figure in the new episodes I'm writing. But I really debated on whether or not Leia should remember her."

--George Lucas, Star Wars-The Return Of The Jedi: Annotated Screenplay, 1997.

 

I think this sidesteps the more interesting parts of the story, plays Anakin more as a mindless victim with good intentions, and doesn't make a lot of sense in that Vader would have no reason to suspect that Leia isn't his daughter, and why is Luke not raised by Bail as well?

 

Several reasons can exist. Obi-Wan and her take the precaution to hide Luke just in case the emperor gets curious. Or if something happens to Bail and his family. "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."
Or Anakin has talked earlier about having a son, he mentions to Obi-Wan that he had dreams/visions about a son and that he wanted to give his lightsaber to him one day.
So since Obi-Wan knows that Anakin has "seen" a son then hiding the son makes sense.
Also, it might not be her choice entirely. If she gives birth and is then unconscious and Obi-wan has to make a choice. Keep both children here and risk both being lost if discovered. So he makes the choice to take Luke and the mother does not know where. Just in case this would ever get exposed.
That would explain why Leia said her mother was sad about something. She missed her son.

Anakin in RotS comes across as very clueless and gullible and is totally a victim to Palpatine spinning moonbeams for him.

If Anakin was more of an the ends justify the means and thought that the Jedi/senate were too ineffective to deal with the war. Then him joining a strong leader, Palpatine, to bring order to the galaxy, can work.
Doing bad things bother him less and less because he sees it as in service for a good cause.

There are hints of this in AotC and RotS and originally, Anakin did turn earlier and for reason that had to do with that. Order, end the war quickly, distrust of the Jedi.
With the new scenes, Anakin turned for one reason and one reason only, save Padme.
Which he had zero evidence that Palpatine could actually do.

As for Leia, first see above and second, if Anakin and Padme were never married, just a couple.
And say that Padme was betrothed to Bail Organa, an alliance of sorts. She did not want it and she did love Anakin but her duty to her people were stronger. One to the reasons why Anakin leaves her.
So he leaves her, not having any idea she is pregnant and then she marries Bail and have a child, Leia.
Then him not thinking much about that can work.
Once Vader knows of Luke then yes, problem, he could think about Padme and her marrying Bail and having a child, Leia. Since she was obviously pregnant when he left her, then what about Leia?
A way around that is to present Leia as adopted. That she and Bail married but have no kids of their own and Leia is an adopted child.
Or, have her live with the Organas but Bail is already married to someone else and the child is presented as theirs, likely adopted.
Or have them fudge the dates when Leia was born but this would be rather cumbersome.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

I disagree. In my opinion, he's less stupid in that than he is in this idea. I think Anakin has no moonbeams about the morality of his actions, but purposefully deludes himself in pursuit of his protection of Padme.

I think if Vader's motive for being evil is to pursue heroic ends, not only is his turn now, again more with a heart of gold, there's not much to weight his change in ROTJ. Vader's pursuit of using power to control things, not for heroic ends, but his own selfish desires to keep what he wants irregardless of the consequences. If his pursuit is for heroism actively, then I think it's character shift for Vader at the end of ROTJ is changing what heroism he pursues. There's no mind changing really, to me. And I think his motive in the movie, solidly parallels him with Luke: The protection of his loved ones, though in a more selfish and twisted variation.

If anything, I think the developed setup in all the movies is the stem of a fear of loss. He has other mindsets, like order, but I think that more influences his pursuit of takeover of the galaxy we see TESB, which I think could be among the reasons why I think having Vader be buying into Palpatine really, as a person, in back half of ROTS doesn't have a lot of importance to it. The first time we get active insight into what Vader wants, it's him wanting to kill Palpatine in TESB. For Vader's ambition to be selfish shows his villainy and doesn't dance around it. He's a villain, not a misunderstood hero. If Anakin is a victim to himself, like I think the movie presents moreso, than a poor wittle victim of Palpatine, I think that works more.

If Padme has a daughter, right after they were together, one Vader meets, especially after Vader found out he had a son, I think it makes no real sense for Vader to either not suspect or pursue the idea that Padme has a daughter and it might be his. Which never happens in the movies. He reads Luke and picks up the sister thing, and assumes that Obi-Wan hid her from him, not his ex girlfriend.

Why is Luke seemingly not being raised by Bail in this pitch? And why would Padme hide Leia's lineage or (if Luke is hidden at this point) Luke's lineage (in either capacity, whether being raised by Bail with Padme, or with Owen and Beru), when Anakin hasn't turned to the dark side yet?