main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

  2. The Boards Are Now Reopened For Business:

    READ THIS: your ability to post here depends upon it.. See the new rules thread here. Bans can and will be handed out to anyone who doesn't abide by the forum rules.

ST Rey’s Anti-Anakin theory

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by rrlevy, Dec 24, 2015.

  1. rrlevy

    rrlevy Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    [​IMG]
    “A prophecy . . . that misread could have been.”
    (this is an English adaptation – with some additions – of my original text on http://www.armazempop.com.br/blog/cinema/teorias-sobre-rey-e-o-futuro-de-star-wars/)

    WARNING: the text below has spoilers from "The Force Awakens".

    The main question that stay in the minds of fans after seeing the movie is about Rey’s origin and family, which are not revealed in this episode.

    The most common theory on the internet so far is that she is the daughter of Luke Skywalker, based on the evidence about the lightsaber “calling”. There is also an "easter egg" in Rey’s home - a rag doll made of white and orange cloth that resembles a rebel pilot - which could be an indication of her family origin. However, this rag doll can easily be her own creation based on the dozens of dead pilots that must exist in the X-Wings ruins in Jakku.

    I want to register here a theory that came to my head as I watched the film 3 times and after reviewing the new trilogy (which tells the origin of Anakin):

    Rey is not Luke's daughter, but is the new chosen on, "conceived by the Force" as Anakin Skywalker.

    The film gives much more evidence in that direction than to her being Luke's daughter. Let's look at the clues:

    - Rey proves to be an excellent pilot in the film, almost instinctively, without practice or training. Her piloting of the Millennium Falcon shows that. She even tells Finn after the escape from Jakku that she had never done that before.

    - Rey also knows how to fix things in an unusual way, being more familiar with the Falcon than Han Solo himself. Han’s awkwardness is noticeable in several scenes.

    [​IMG]
    Rey’s first contact with the Millenium Falcon

    - Rey possess a very strong connection with the Force, apparently much stronger than Kylo Ren. Although Kylo have been trained by Luke himself, he does not overcome Rey, neither on mind powers nor lightsaber.

    - Rey seems to speak every language in the galaxy. The movie draws attention to this several times, as she communicates with native Jakku, BB-8 and Chewbacca. Even Finn gets surprised by that. You can understand that she speaks droid, but Wookie? I don’t think there are enough Wookies in the galaxy for her understand the language so well ...

    [​IMG]
    Rey understands BB-8, Chewbacca, and everyone else she meets in the movie

    Note that ALL the above points are subtly but explicitly mentioned in the dialogues: Rey confess that she never piloted a ship like that before, Han makes weird faces when seeing her fixing the Falcon, Finn is astonished that she understands Chewbacca, etc. These are not plot holes, but clearly clues deliberately included in the movie.

    It could be argued that she has these skills because she is a descendant from Anakin. However, it those powers were passed from father to son, Luke should also have them. Let’s look at the facts about Luke’s natural skills when he was discovering the Force:

    - Yes, Luke was a "good" pilot, but not a natural-born or exceptional pilot. He trained a lot on Tatooine shooting rats, as he says in Episode IV. Luke also wanted to go to the Academy and get training, which shows that he didn’t judge himself good enough. Later he does fly an X-Wing and destroys the Death Star, but does not stand out at all in the battle, only using the Force to aim the final shot. His piloting skill in the battle was nothing exceptional.

    - Luke never shows aptitude for mechanics and to fix things. He is easily fooled by a droid (R2-D2), failing to access the complete Leia message and even let R2 get away!! Compare the scene where Luke enters the Falcon for the first time with the Rey’s first time: Luke is totally lost on the ship, even asking Han what are the flashing lights!! He doesn’t even know anything about the hyperdrive!! In Rey’s first time, she already fully mastered the craft, impressing and even exceeding Han Solo himself in her understanding of the ship!

    [​IMG]
    Luke’s first contact with the Falcon! Does it resemble Rey’s?

    - Luke took too long to have Force powers, having almost the same age as Rey. In Episode IV, the only thing he does is to hit the target at the Death Star and defend some lasers while training in the Falcon. At the beginning of Episode V, three years later, he can only, with great difficulty, attract the lightsaber to his hand using the Force. Only after training with Yoda he improves his powers. Rey, on her first day with the Force awakened, can overcome Kylo Ren’s mind torture, does mind tricks with stormtroopers and attracts lightsabers. Also, isn’t it strange that without any training, she overcomes Kylo Ren, who was trained by Luke himself? If both were grandsons of Anakin, they should have similar hereditary powers, and Kylo would have advantage because of his training!

    [​IMG]
    With three years of practice, the Force is still weak in Luke

    - Luke never shows any skills with languages. When he meets R2-D2, he doesn’t understand him and needs C-3PO as an interpreter, and never shows any kind of language skills.


    [​IMG]
    Luke doesn’t understand neither R2-D2 nor mechatronics!

    Now let us compare Rey’s similarities with Anakin:

    - Anakin was an excellent mechanic, building C-3PO and a pod while still a kid. Remember him saying that he "could fix anything"?

    [​IMG]
    Anakin mechanical skills haven’t passed on to Luke

    - Anakin was also a natural born pilot, flying even ships in which he had no training and from cultures unknown to him. Other than flying pods with proficiency in Episode I, he even pilots alone a Naboo fighter and destroys a Federation starship!

    [​IMG]
    In the Star Wars universe, Anakin is the only one piloting unknown ships

    - When we see Anakin at the Rey’s age, he already has Jedi training, so we can’t compare his powers with an untrained Rey. However, in Episode II it is said that Anakin is already very powerful and is thought to be even better than Yoda with a lightsaber.

    - Anakin has a gift with languages ​​as well. He never needs an interpreter, and his piloting of the Naboo fighter demonstrates his adaptability to new cultures. There is even a deleted scene in the original trilogy DVD’s that shows Anakin speaking droid, something unheard of in the Star Wars universe.

    All of these pieces of evidence show that Rey has A LOT of similarities to Anakin but none to Luke.

    Also, we must remember that if Luke actually followed the Jedi code, he would have taken no wife and had no children. Would he repeat the same mistake of Anakin, knowing about what happened to him?

    Recalling the mysterious origin of Anakin, the information we have from Episode I is that he was conceived without a father. His connection to the force is also off the charts.

    In Episode III, Palpatine tells Anakin about the Sith Master Darth Plagueis, who was told to be able to create life right out of the Force, implying that this was Anakin’s origin.

    The Jedi Council was also familiar with the matter. In Episode I, Qui-Gon tells the council that Anakin seemed to be conceived by the Force, and was questioned by Mace Windu: “You're referring to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force...you believe it's this boy??”

    Now comes the most important point of the theory: THE PROPHECY WAS NOT REFERRING TO ANAKIN, BUT TO REY!

    This is supported by Yoda’s line in Episode III:
    Much has been discussed about the title of the new film, “The Force Awakens”. If this theory is correct, it means that the actual fulfillment of the prophecy will happen now with Rey. This is the awakening of the Force!

    There has been a lot of discussion on on the Internet about Supreme Leader Snoke being Darth Plagueis, the master of Darth Sidious and creator of Anakin.

    If Palpatine’s statement of Anakin being created by Plagueis is true, this means that Anakin was not be the real chosen one, but only a ploy created by the Sith to emulate the prophecy and deceive the Jedi into thinking that he was the one.

    Therefore, Rey should be the real chosen one that the prophecy talked about, being really conceived by the light side of the Force, and not by a Sith Lord. How could the chosen one be Anakin, a profane dark side experiment by a Sith Lord?

    Rey being the chosen one also explains another apparent “plot hole” of The Force Awakens. Why was Lor San Tekka holding Luke’s map on the same planet as Rey? Is that a huge coincidence? I don’t think so! Lor San Tekka, who had a strong Force connection and head of the church of the Force, was on Jakku because his studies of the prophecy showed that the chosen one should emerge there!! There is no such thing as coincidences!

    I believe that this theory is very believable because it harmonizes all the clues of Rey’s similarities with Anakin and provides a kind of redemption to the original trilogy.


    May the force be with you!
     
  2. Elle-Wan

    Elle-Wan Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 11, 2004
    I hope I don't hear the expression "the chosen one" or the word "prophecy" again in the Star Wars series.
     
  3. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    I like your theories and your reasoning. And while I think the Jedi misread the prophecy, I don't think the ST is going to go in that direction. And while reincarnation is certainly prevalent in mythology, I don't believe they'd do that either.

    Her talens and skill sets simply mean that she's a Skywalker, much like Luke and Anakin. Sometimes skills, looks, passions skip a generation. My grandfather liked to paint. And I'm an artist. But my dad couldn't draw a stick figure to save his life. It doesn't mean i'm the reincarnation of my grandpa.

    I believe Rey is the Force Awakens. Maybe that's when a user realizes their potential on there own. Maybe that means that after the Force is balanced, it enters a period of remission. A period where no on really uses it. And then waits for the Awakening, when the Force grows again, and more and more people feel connected to it.
     
  4. mercer590

    mercer590 Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    i stopped reading after "the chosen one", anakin was the chosen one. end of story. i dont want this bull happening again.
     
  5. Robert Merrill

    Robert Merrill Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 23, 2014
    I enjoyed the amount of detail you put into your post. I too was thinking that Rey could be the "Chosen One" being spoken of by Mace Windu and Yoda.
     
    Tanjint likes this.
  6. callmejoe

    callmejoe Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Do we really need another chosen one? The biggest problem with the prequels was Darth Vader himself. He was made into evil Jesus for some reason and we don't need that again.
     
  7. BobaBacca

    BobaBacca Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2015
    I believe that Anakin was conceived by the midichlorians as a result of Plagueis meddling in the darkside. As as result the Skywalker destiny is to turn to the darkside. Luke was tempted but resisted and changed his destiny. Anakin and Kylo did not.
    Star Wars saga began with Plagueis. Anakin and Palpatine are the 2 most important characters and neither would exist if it wasn't for Plagueis. Star WARS. The destructive conflict needs to end for the Star Wars saga to end. At end of RotJ, Anakin and Palpatine are dead, but that isn't the end of the story. Luke, Leia, Kylo and Plagueis are all still major players. The story is over once all these characters are dead. Then you have galaxy existing like it was before Plagueis set the whole chain of events in motion by "creating" the Skywalker bloodline, taking Palpatine as his apprentice and coming up with a plot to turn the Republic into an Empire.
    Rey is chosen by the Force, not as a result of darkside midichlorian meddling of a Sith Lord, by the actual Force itself. The Force chooses Rey because she is a nobody. The Force is striking back, just like Plagueis thought it would. Rey will end the destructive conflict by destroying Kylo, the last of the Skywalker bloodline and Plagueis, the ultimate root cause of all the destructive conflict. Then Star WARS is over. The galaxy is at peace and balance is restored.
    Tekka says at the very beginning of the movie, there is no balance. Even if that isn't mentioned we know there is no balance because we are watching episode 7. Therefore, episode 6 is not the end of the story. The end of a story doesn't take place in the middle of the story.
     
    rrlevy and 11-4D like this.
  8. Elle-Wan

    Elle-Wan Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 11, 2004
    ...and as if it needed saying, I don't want to hear "midichorian" in the series again either. The idea that there's a prophecy, a chosen one, and some measurable thing (midichlorians) determining who's powerful destroys the sense of adventure and lessons the heroics. ...and it's a LAME plot device.
     
  9. Palpatine's P.A.

    Palpatine's P.A. Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2014
    OP, yeah, how does she speak Wookiee? I know she had a lot of time on her hands on Jakku, but of all the many languages to learn, seems an odd choice
     
  10. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    Rey's Survival Guide notes that she found a computer in the wreckage from which she was able to teach herself a variety of topics, including multiple languages and mechanics/design for a variety of ships.

    But my biggest question is how do you claim Rey is a better pilot than Luke? Rey does a solid job, but note that her handling of the Falcon is far from flawless - she gets off to a rocky start, especially. I'm not trying to fault her, because it was her first time flying that type of ship, but its not exceptional. Luke, on the other hand, is described as the "best in the Outer Rim" and is able to survive and blow up the Death Star in his first time in the cockpit of an X-Wing.
     
  11. jainasky

    jainasky Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2010
    I love Rey, a lot just so we're all clear at the start here with that said :)

    She is not a perfect, excellent OMG! pilot. She crashes the Falcon into the ground multiple times.

    When exactly did Luke crash his X wing on his way to the Death Star or into the side of the trench or glance a blow off another ship? Hit the ground when taking off?

    I may Rey nails the ground a few times. Hard.

    With all that said... She's still my favorite (along with BB-8, Finn and Poe). I actually liked how she flew the Falcon making their escape. She was determined to get them out of there to safety.

    With that said I don't think Rey is Anakin. I think she's either Luke's daughter or Kenobis granddaughter. I am looking forward to her most of all in Ep VIIi

    Anakin had his story, lived as the chosen one, died and was saved by his son. If he comes back it would be as a ghost or a recorded hologram or something.

    I did enjoy reading your post, I love when people research and think things like this out :). Also I loved that deleted scene where Anakin was speaking Astromech :)
     
  12. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    You need to go back and watch the movies again, because you got Luke all wrong.
     
    Trebor Sabreon likes this.
  13. rrlevy

    rrlevy Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Exactly, I totally agree!!


    Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk
     
  14. DoubleGold

    DoubleGold Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2013
    I agree that Rey is related to Skywalkers, it does not mean that she is Luke's daughter directly. She could be Leia's daughter, a clone of Leia. Darth Vader could have been out having some fun between episodes 3 and 4, or in between episodes of the original trilogy, though, we would not see that onscreen, since that stuff has to be left out of the star wars movies. Darth Vader might actually have more children out there born years after Luke and Leia. She very well could be Luke's daughter, but I like to keep my prediction a little less specific, so that it will more likely be right.
     
  15. Jedi Master Scorpio

    Jedi Master Scorpio Star Wars Television star 4 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2015
    The very first part of TFA novel contains a passage from the Journal of the Whills. So get ready, there is more than likely more prophecies.
     
  16. Chained Prometheus

    Chained Prometheus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2013

    Indeed. The other thing that has me paying more and more thought to the idea of Rey being a reincarnation of Anakin or a new Chosen One of some sort is the already apparent influence of Hayao Miyazaki's Nausicaa of the Valley of the Winds in her character in The Force Awakens. I'm still thinking the easy answer is that she's Luke's daughter though.
     
    Dagobahsystem likes this.
  17. Drewdude91

    Drewdude91 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 21, 2011
    I posted a thread not too long ago suggesting that she may have had her memories altered, hence her being able to easily grasp the force and go toe-to-toe with Kylo, as well as knowing how the Falcon works. It's because she's done all those things before and her subconscious is picking up on it!
     
    morrison85 likes this.
  18. Trebor Sabreon

    Trebor Sabreon LACWACky Mod of SWTV & Films Force projection star 4 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2010
    No.

    Honestly, even if I strongly disagree with his take on Luke Skywalker (wow), in his own way, the OP delivered on a thoughtful post. And it's not the first to express the idea around these parts, either.

    But no, I'm not for the idea.

    Why? Well, though I haven't by any means closed the door on the Chosen One prophesy rearing its head in the story of the ST (maybe the ghost of Anakin shows up to offer some new insight or even to achieve something left incomplete. I don't know), I really don't see the appeal of the Saga diving head-first back into those "Chosen One" waters if it means the total upheaval of what's come before. And to me, that's what it would be: Not a clever re-imagining so much as an uninspired deconstruction of everything George Lucas spent ten years of his professional life building.

    Don't get me wrong, I like Rey in TFA and it's certainly nothing against her. Do I welcome seeing Rey as a powerful being in the tale? Yes. Someone destined maybe to help Luke establish a new Jedi order? Yep. Maybe even a Skywalker, herself? Absolutely!

    But the 'true' Chosen One?!? [face_sick] Eww, no thanks.

    I know Rey is the new thing and folks naturally tend to feel excited by that. I get it. But here we finally have Lucasfilm's first SW project under Disney and Kathleen Kennedy, and we can't come up with any better -- any more original -- idea for our hero than "Nope, it was actually this character, not that other guy."

    **crickets**

    I don't know. On the surface, I think that whole switcheroo scenario sounds like a pretty poor idea, myself.

    ----------

    That's just my personal take. But what isn't subjective is that it's already been confirmed in published canonical material that Anakin Skywalker was indeed the Chosen One. For only one example, see the TCW 'Mortis' episodes, where Anakin himself at first rejects the whole idea of a Chosen One as 'myth,' only to later have it confirmed, for one and all to see, that Skywalker truly was the Chosen One of prophesy. And as we all know, when the final decision came down on the rule of canonicity, we were told that everything found within the first six Saga films and TCW represented "the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align."


    Suddenly trading-in Anakin for a new Chosen One doesn't feel like an idea which "aligns" with the characters or events of previously established SW history.


    Yoda's cryptic message was right, though: The Jedi had misread the prophesy. But Qui-Gon didn't miss on the question of "Who." It was the "How" that nobody ever saw coming.

    The Jedi were never prepared for the notion that the Chosen One destined to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force would do so only after wiping out the Jedi Order first.

    ----------

    But more than either of those things, I just don't think I can picture the new folks in-charge at Lucasfilm using the story of their very first SW feature films as a giant middle finger to George Lucas and his prior works.

    Because unless the idea of anyone other than Anakin Skywalker being proven as the real Chosen One was a concept retained from Lucas' original treatment for the ST? I imagine that's exactly how such a decision would be viewed by many.
     
  19. LANDO_ROCKS

    LANDO_ROCKS Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2002
    I love this theory and still think it has a very high probability of being correct.
     
    WhyKnock likes this.
  20. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Yes I am afraid that they give Rey some fancy title "Sword of the Jedi" or "Lady of the Stars" or whatever and she will be treated as another Chosen One figure who is prophecised to bring about lasting peace to the galaxy (or insert another phrase).

    I hope they focus on the power of friendship instead, everyone working together to bring about good like in the OT. That's more meaningful to me and the force doesn't just work through force users. Every living being is connected to it.
     
    Darth Caliban and morrison85 like this.
  21. Chained Prometheus

    Chained Prometheus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2013
    I don't see them undoing the whole "Anakin was the Chosen One" element that came with the prequels, but I could absolutely see that idea being expanded upon to have a "Chosen One" that pops up whenever the Force is truly out of balance and that Rey is the latest in this line.
     
    whostheBossk and Force22 like this.
  22. DoubleGold

    DoubleGold Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2013
    As far as the chosen one, they say a young Skywalker. Anakin, Luke and now possibly Rey. Luke was the chosen one. Yoda said a prophecy misread. He must have meant misinterpreted, meaning it doesn't have to be Anakin. Luke was a young Skywalker, when the emperor was destroyed, even though Vader did throw him down the hole.
     
    Tanjint likes this.
  23. Force22

    Force22 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 2, 2013
    I agree with Rey's similarities with Anakin, and how she's much more similar to Anakin than to Luke.
    Maybe she's also born from weird midi chloridian sex or whatever, like Anakin.
    Maybe she's Anakin's granddaughter.

    It's funny, that, in a way, she is like Anakin, while Kylo, who wants to be Vader, is so different from Anakin. Still, I think the chosen one was Anakin, even if the interpretation is that the balance will come from his grandchildren, if that's the case. And I don't think producers would insist on "the chosen one" thing. I think it's passé, and I don't think it was an aspect of the prequels that people really liked. I thought it was silly. Why a "chosen one" if the Jedi didn't have a problem to be fixed? Why did they want "balance"?

    Still, I think all those parallels to Anakin are there for a reason. She's pretty much TPM Anakin to the bone (unfortunately for her and fortunately for us Jakku has no pod racing, cause I'm sure she'd be amazing at that). Now, Anakin turned dark. Maybe she'll turn as well? She seems to rise to anger very quickly.

    .
     
  24. Tanjint

    Tanjint Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Right. Isn't

    "that boy was our lastt hope.

    No, there is another."

    the first OT (arguable) reference to the prophecy of the 7 episodes in order of release?

    In other words, Luke and Leia have inherited chosen-one-ness to some extent in some way. I am dying to see this developed via the First Jedi Temple



    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
    whostheBossk likes this.
  25. MyDarkstar

    MyDarkstar Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2014
    I love this theory and really hope it is the path they will take with the trilogy. Not only would it go a great distance in explaining so much about Rey which I am uneasy with such as how she got so powerful so quick, but it would also explain why Anakin didn't succeed as a prophet who would bring balance.

    I also think it would explain a storyline with somebody worshipping Vader. That person was seduced by Plageis and trained to believe he was the prophet.

    Frankly, the more I think about it, the more I really hope that is the direction they're going with it all. It will tie everything together quite nicely.

    And what is the other theory ? That she is a Skywalker ? Maybe Luke's daughter ? That just doesn't make sense. Who would be the mother ? Is Luke magically pulling babies out of the air ? Or is it some lady who has never appeared before ? Neither case would make sense.
     
    whostheBossk likes this.