ST Rey Skywalker/Daisy Ridley Discussion Thread

The biggest problem with Rey's arc, imo, is that JJ clearly intended her to be extremely important to the Skywalkers and have a relevant linage. Anakin's saber called to her. She won it over Kylo Ren. Her linage was shrouded in mystery. Leia sent *her* to get Luke back. Rian then went in a completely opposite direction, to 'subvert expectations' and basically threw everything JJ had set up with regards to Rey out. JJ then was tasked with trying to continue what he started back in TFA, while also trying to deal with Rian not only ignoring what he set up, but going in a completely opposite direction. We're left with Rey Palpatine-But-We'd-Really-Rather-She-Was-A-Skywalker.

Maybe next movies they'll plan out a three arc trilogy before they start?

 

My alternate universe crystal ball says it could have been better with George Lucas developing her character as originally intended, but really I think things turned out slightly better than my fears once I learned that they'd mostly discarded his story concepts. I need to re-watch the whole ST a couple more times before I get definitive on Rey or any of the other characters or the story as a whole. I have yet to watch all three in close sequence knowing where it's all headed.

 

I beg to differ.

I think he should have made her a Skywalker and re-shape her narrative into something different. Something that did not rely on her background being a mystery.

 

Please feel free to differ. These are only my own stray thoughts. The sequels had a higher quality than I feared they would, granted the foolish degree of departure they took from the auteur's intentions.

I think people overestimate how "awesome" the ST could have been with just this or that fix they imagine. Had the problems we actually got been absent, I think the committee approach would have given us other ones, possibly worse ones. I think it's an error to compare it to an imaginary ideal.

Had George been substantially behind the whole process, even with other people countering or vetoing certain ideas, there would potentially have been a better sequel trilogy. I think it would still have been inferior to the previous two, but if anyone could create it in a manner that didn't feel at all "tacked on" it would have been him. However as he himself said, Return of the Jedi resolves the story in pretty much every way. To even have a sequel trilogy, they practically had to create problems in order to solve them. Hence it's less organically connected than the PT was to the CT. You have a 6/3 divide and a natural question of whether the sequels are narratively necessary or improve the saga as a whole. That's bothered me since The Force Awakens. However, I cut them a lot of slack because I think they were doing something much harder than just about anyone really understood, including themselves.

To put it briefly, the sequel trilogy has been on probation with me from day one, and I have to emphasize that I was ready for it to create a "new definition of pain and suffering" by probing new depths of bad. I was prepared for the sequels to be far, far worse.

 

I agree. They should've stuck with GL's original idea and had her be the Solo daughter. That's what Lucas intended. The mystery around her linage wasn't needed.

 

Had they made her openly the daughter of Luke but with the same aesthetic and overall traits, that could have been interesting but the story would have had to be very different. I'll point out that it would necessitate her character having a mother fans would want to know about, and that it would seem cheap to have that mother dead at the outset. So that would mean introducing an new character. Then there would be the issue of why Luke broke the Jedi code, which might not bother some people but many would want the issue to at least be addressed. I'm not waving it away--it could have been interesting. But what we got was a spiritual successor to Luke, instead of a literal daughter.

 

I utterly disagree on TLJ. We don't need a broken family or some drama for the lead beyond "I am who I choose to be, cause where I come from means nothing". She is only a knockoff skywalker but not really if moving forward they reverted or didn't stick with the self actualization angle, which they didn't.

Like how the HECK does Rey have no temptation to the dark, antagonist, or reason to keep training just cause she is not related to anybody? IDK maybe the fact that she has empathy and has become emotionally close to people who Kylo is killing, her antagonist is so clear given that they literally fight over the legacy and snap it, and her temptation exists no matter what cause it is personality based not genetic. The dark side should not have to do with your blood, the temptation can easily come from abandonment issues, or just having a short temper due to having to fight to survive.

Kylo is absolutely her antagonist and she has reason to beat him as Rey Random. It becomes less about fighting for the skywalker name or whatever, and instead about what the Jedi and the actions the Skywalkers took MEAN to people, any people from any place. Kylo essentially told her she means nothing on her own, that she is insignificant cause she doesn't have some noble powerful blood, and she rejects that and forges her own path. How does she not have an antagonist in that divide? She is the avatar of the light and of the idea that the force belongs to everyone, Kylo embodies entitlement and possessiveness.

Dislike TLJ all you want, wish for a different direction, but it is just strange to say there is nothing to do from there simply cause moving from there is not interesting to YOU personally. Like I would have not remotely have liked or been interesting in Rey Skywalker, but I am not so set in my own mentality to the point that I would say that her being a Skywalker means there is no plot moving forward or that it is just a rehash.

Rey being different than what she is means nothing. She "seems" like a skywalker cause of framing, and if we go by TLJ's moral; she is worthy of that legacy through her actions, not destiny or blood, but her deeds and choices. No one is simply what they seem, they can choose, that's the point. Other people being allowed to matter is not rehashing the skywalkers, and it is not a treatise on her "being something different than what she is" to have her be her own person going through similar struggles.

You wouldn't say Luke is pretending to be something he is not, that being Theseus, cause Monomyth would you? Anakin was Vader and didn't throw himself into the sea when Luke forgot to signal he survived Yavin; god there is just NO act 3 for this Luke character now.

why can't she be a different kind of character going in a different direction? Or rather, why can't her story still exist with her being "like" a skywalker? You can do an act 3 for that still, it does not have to be about her blood. She is in this legacy now, she is in the web and now carries the legacy of the Jedi which in no way belongs to the Skywalkers.

So why can't a random person who went through similar struggles to the Skywalkers self-actualize and take the Jedi into her own hands and overcome her insecurity about belonging and defeat the dark side and assert to Kylo that she IS worthy because she chooses to be not because she is "to him"

That is a story, that is an act 3, Not the one you would do? cool. Doesn't mean there is somehow no place to go after TLJ with that concept. Also why does the blame always have to be flung at Rian for "making a mistake"? He made a choice, one that a lot of people where actually touched by. The two options are not ignore all of TLJ or do a retcon; you can just adapt to the change since they let it happen. You can shift why you are invested in Rey's story even if you didn't get your bloodline expectation. She can still matter and her struggle to revive the Jedi and beat the dark side can be the passing of the torch without making SW stuck on lineage

then again I have no clue why I am writing all this when it means nothing cause they took the worst way out from all POVs and so we are all stuck in hell together just watching in rage and sadness.

Not even the mystery box, just the concept of a sequel trilogy: did it really matter? Like if the message either way ends up being shut down cause of TROS then what is the point but a well shot and acted cash-in?

God this film broke me

 

The problem with TLJ is that it wants to make Rey Random, but also realizes this saga is supposed to be about the Skywalkers. So what do we get multiple flashbacks about throughout the movie? The Skywalker drama. What do Rey and Kylo primarily discuss in their force Skypes? The Skywalker drama. What is the focus of the film's climatic showdown? The Skywalker drama. Ultimately, what is TLJ about? The Skywalker drama. When we finally get a moment that's about Rey's story, she disappears from the movie for 10 minutes, and then this:


RJ took away Rey Skywalker, but gave nothing of substance to Rey's story in it's place. JJ gets a lot of criticism (and rightfully so) for mystery boxing Rey's story and kicking it to the next director. However, RJ also kicked the story to the next director. We got two movies where Rey was a participant in another family's story. And then when we look at TROS and Treverrow's script, it's like LF finally remembered who our protagonist was and tried to refocus on her. Unfortunately, it's clear from both stories that it doesn't work to cram what should have been the entire trilogy's story into the final movie. Both creators attempted to find a way to tie her to the Skywalker's (since that was this saga and 7 and particularly 8 were really about), but it was too little too late.

 

I will never defend RoS as a good movie, but I will always argue that at least Rey is actually the protagonist of the film. She certainly isn’t in TLJ.

There’s a super simple way to demonstrate this. In TLJ, what is the subject of her conversations? Primarily, Kylo. She bafflingly has to listen to three different versions of a story that has literally nothing to do with her. It’s Kylo’s “origin” to the extent it qualifies as an origin (okay, it doesn’t, but clearly RJ thought it did). Rey calls Kylo a monster, and he pivots to whether Luke told her the “truth” of that night [that he massacred Jedi students]. Why would Rey be sitting around on pins and needles to hear the “truth” of a night from years before involving two strangers doing things she had zero to with in any possible sense? Then, she’s obsessed with Kylo’s (not her) soul. Act III for Rey is about Kylo exclusively. Sure, for 2.5 minutes while she’s obsessed with him for no valid personal reason even remotely, he attempts to manipulate her with her parents, but the scene isn’t about that. Hence “woohoo I like this!” after it’s dropped like the irrelevant hot potato it was.

Jump ahead to RoS. What does Rey [irritatingly] talk about through this movie? Her feeling that she is burdened and no one understands her. Kylo stalks her to talk about her truth, her family, and his desire for her to join him. He isn’t stalking her to talk about himself under the ridiculous presumption that of course she’d be interested in that. Rey’s agency finally in this trilogy pushes the story forward throughout the film. She decides at the beginning to go find the thing that will do the thing. She runs constantly from her friends because she thinks it’s her job. She steals the skiff to get the DS. She runs off to Exogol. Everything is about her and her choices. Kylo reacts to her, not the reverse. It’s more her film than TFA. And yeah, trying to pack a trilogy of story for the protagonist in one fetch quest film is definitely too little, too late.

 

Maybe it would have been better if Luke had told her about her parentage and how he tried to find/save her from Ochie. That way he would have a connection with her and you could even say he felt bad about not saving her parents too and expand the story from there. It wouldn't feel as rushed as waiting until ROS to shoehorn it all in and Luke gets more to do as well.

 

That is because they did not come up with being Palpatine's granddaughter until 2018.

 

Or 2019, frankly.

 

So what was up with Rey's vision in the mirror during The Last Jedi? Is this meant to somehow represent what we learn later in The Rise of Skywalker about Sith Masters having the spirits of past Sith inside them?

 

I still think it would've been better if we learned that Rey was Luke's kid and that Ben Solo was somehow involved in killing Rey's mother. Perhaps Ben Solo was tricked by Snoke into killing Rey's mother or maybe Rey's mother died in an accident and Ben was made to feel responsible for her death. A young Rey was a witness to this and a panicked Ben took Rey to Jakku to keep her from telling Luke, Han, or Leia what she saw Ben do, or what she thought she saw him do.

That way we have Rey directly connected to Luke, Kylo, Han, and Leia. We have a better explanation for why Luke considered killing his nephew in the hut, (Luke read Ben's mind and saw that Ben appeared to have killed Luke's wife), and we have a tragic backstory for Kylo that is actually explained in more detail than Palpy saying, "I turned you to the darkside from across the galaxy using the darkside. Nuff said. Muwhahaha!!!"

Ben hiding Rey on nowhere Jakku works better for me than Rey's Palpatine parents hiding Rey Palpatine from Emperor Palpatine on the same planet that Palpy was active on.
They could maybe even have worked in a meaningful explanation for why the Falcon was on Jakku if Ben took her there. Maybe Ben told his family that he saw the people that attacked Rey's mother steal the Falcon with a kidnapped Rey.

From there they could've explained that in the aftermath of Rey's kidnapping Luke gave up training new Jedi because he was devoting all his time to looking for his daughter. They could've then showed us that Luke went to Ach-To, not to give up on everything and die, but rather to consult the old Jedi texts to see if they provided a way for Luke to use the Force to try and find his daughter.

ETA: @Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid, serious question, are you looking for a real explanation or fan head canon because there is no real explanation for that scene. RJ thought it was a cool visual idea that he retroactive attached meaning to.

 

What really gets me about this is that Rian would have seen the shooting script for TFA as he was writing his own story (finished and delivered in the middle of principal photography for TFA). The shooting script that hints that Kylo knows Rey from the past, and says 'It is you!' before the final fight. He would have also seen that Leia recognised Rey when they finally met.

There's one very obvious and logical interpretation if you're following on from this as a filmmaker. Rian decided to throw logic out the window; something which also comes across as hugely disrespectful of that which has been set up.

I can't help feel that he allowed the instruction that he could do whatever he wanted to go completely to his head.

 

If you want to go that route, this is even better.

Luke, his wife and children are part of the new Jedi Temple. When Luke reads Ben's mind - he sees his family being killed. Caught in the moment Luke draws his lightsaber. A moment later Luke comes to his sense but it's too late. Ben Solo attacks Luke. Luke's family is killed when the temple is destroyed.

What Luke doesn't know is Ben Solo couldn't bring himself to kill Rey and secretly takes her with him. He tried to get Rey to Lorr San Teka but the closest he gets is Unkar Plut.

 

Making Rey a Palpatine definitely feels like a half-baked attempt to give Rey a personal connection to the Skywalker Saga and to give her some personal stakes in the fight against Palpatine. I can definitely see LFL thinking that if they didn't go that route then Rey would be standing in the shadow of Ben Solo, the returned Skywalker hero of the film.

Rey being a Palpatine never felt real to me. Throughout the whole movie it felt like I was being pranked anytime it was mentioned that Rey was a Palpatine and it undercut the seriousness of every scene it was mentioned in. To my ear it felt like they just revealed that Rey's last name was Fartface and we were all supposed to accept it like there was nothing ridiculous sounding about it which made it feel even MORE ridiculous.

I don't understand why they made the choices that did with Rey. One can watch all of TFA and most of TLJ and think Rey is going to be revealed to be Luke's kid, then they made her a rando for 30 minutes of TLJ and a Palpatine for a good chunk of TROS and they make her a Skywalker by the end of the movie. What the hell was the point off all that?

 

'Let's uh do everything to the point of incoherence and betraying the values of the IP we bought.'

The OT had Luke finding his family (Leia, Anakin) and saving them (that's what family is for idealistically). He rescued Leia and saved the soul of his father in the last act.

The ST had Rey mystery box not meeting her family and becoming a nobody then becoming a Palpatine who re-kills the last other member of her family in the last act and then decides to pretend to be a member of another family.

 

This is why I'll always say that despite the many issues TROS has, it at least remembered who the protagonist was supposed to be. It was about her story, everything revolved around her. All the character arcs involved her story and her background. Even if that background felt rushed and shoved in at the last minute, at least it was about her.

The problem stemmed from the fact they decided that the ONLY Skywalker heir was the bad guy. Like alwayslurking said, TLJ was all about the Skywalker drama and it was all about Ben and Luke, while Rey herself was merely a witness and self-insert with absolutely no meaning to the actual story. The only way for them to then 'fix' this was make Rey's backstory important to the Skywalkers, otherwise we'd be wondering why Rey was chosen as the hero in the third chapter of the Skywalker saga. She had to be more important than Ben because this is her story, not his. I'm not sure when they decided that fixing that aspect of the story had to be making Rey a Palpatine, but it was either that or Skywalker. In the end, they made Rey both.

The sad thing to me, though, is I don't even dislike the idea of Rey Palpatine-turned-Skywalker if it'd been built up properly and Rey had had an actual great relationship with Luke. Give a reason for her to take his last name. It could've been beautiful and meaningful. Show us that Rey truly is the heir to Luke, despite no blood relation. But Rey and Luke in TLJ is just.... ???

 

Gotta love how they brought Palpatine back from the dead and his initial mater plan was to have his granddaughter kill him! I'm mean seriously if any one of us suggested something like that most of everybody here would've be all .

 

This is so true. I'm actually a sucker for found family stories. I think Leia's relationship with the Organas is the most interesting background aspect of her character that informs who she is throughout the saga. I love Anakin and Obi as found brothers. I bought Rey and Finn as found family, whether romantic or not, hook, line and sinker. Han, Luke and Leia, before the sibling reveal, were pure found family, and it allowed for basically perfect storytelling emotional investment.

I would have loved to see Rey and Luke develop a real bond. It was tricky though, because at the end of TFA, I wondered how they could pull off a found family relationship with Luke and Rey because TFA portrayed that with Rey and Han. It starts getting redundant if she develops a close, familial bond with every unrelated adult she encounters. That was one of the reasons I figured Rey Skywalker made the most sense, and then assumed Rey and Luke as father/daughter would struggle to find their relationship in a way Rey and Han didn't. Or conversely, Rey Solo would have made sense, and Luke would just be her crotchety uncle. Basically, they needed some way to distinguish her bonds with her mentors. But even if they just duplicated another warm relationship, or perhaps this time a relationship arc that started rough, time passes, and culminates in them coming together, it would have been great. I similarly would have loved the Rey/Leia relationship to have been actually developed. JJ did not have to deprive them of a single line of dialogue in his film, and RJ didn't have to give them one blink-and-you-miss-it conversation mainly about Luke. Instead, they bizarrely just skipped showing any kind of bond with Luke and Rey, and then she named herself after him anyway. It's so frakking badly written and portrayed.

 

Agreed that Rey Palpatine could have worked. Heck, Reylo could have worked if it had been well developed (though that kind of story is not my cup of tea, so I'd never be a fan). I honestly think that the trilogy was doomed, though, once you had the 1-2 punch of TFA and TLJ. That's 2/3 of the trilogy with completely diverging views. The movies are basically impossible to reconcile, so the ST was a lost cause at that point. My lingering hope going into TROS was that they would basically disregard TLJ (since there was little substantial development in that movie IMO), and so we'd at least have a somewhat coherent duology. Unfortunately, I think they were honestly trying with 9 to make the ST one unit, and that was a fools errand.

 

Hold up. Where is there evidence that Abrams only decided to make Rey a Palpatine when writing TROS in 2017 as opposed that always being his initial intention when developing TFA in 2013/2014?