ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Honestly, there should really be a Directors Cut of Star Wars: The Last Jedi in general. There are a lot of great scenes that were taken out that should have been in the film. I wish the fan reception toward the film was more positive so that there could be a high demand for it.

Most definitely. Although, I didn't exactly love Faith until her redemption on Angel. Also, Fred and Cordelia from Angel are pretty awesome too. Not better than the three that were mentioned, but shoutout to them.

 

Except there is a ton of range between feeling love and feeling absolutely nothing for someone.

I would venture to say that wanting to save someone's soul requires caring about them.

 

If you want to save their soul for their sake, yes.

If you want to save their soul purely for other reasons, no.

 

Perhaps. And maybe that's (partly) why she failed.

Her leaving him alive after waking up first though makes me think she cares.

 

Maybe.

I also think that killing an unconscious enemy isn’t really the Jedi thing to do.

She’s following the will of the Force. She’s trusting the Tide

 

I like the sound of that too.

 

@godisawesome

I’m not sure there was anything ever particularly innovative or groundbreaking about Rey to begin with. I think a lot of people who want fiction to influence and teach and represent messages they feel passionate about projected a lot of that innovation onto her because when you’ve had a character like Ripley, who’s existed since 1979, and each subsequent female action hero that’s been built off that mold since, there’s basically nothing groundbreaking in TFA involving Rey at all. She’s the hero with a thousand faces in a dire situation that just so happens to be female. She’s important as the first female protagonist in the saga but there was nothing innovative or groundbreaking in her design as a female who was skilled and could fight and tried to help people.

The complaint seems mostly to be that a story for tweens that explores different issues related to physical attraction — she’s currently desired by two different men with very different goals beyond their pursuit of her love — is regressive. I can appreciate the frustrations for older viewers or readers who might be tired of teen musings related to physical attraction in stories they want to enjoy differently and who feel it’s time to move beyond that in their stories but it’s important to remember that there are viewers with less experience navigating this kind of drama who are not as tired of it and not as offended as some are in this thread about it being explored.

Listen to the excitement in this fan’s voice:


We are sharing Star Wars with people like that now and I welcome them wholeheartedly into the fandom!

Millions of young people love songs exploring toxic relationships. Listen to the lyrics in this song:

https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=taylor+swift+in+my+dreams+

Or this one:


Or this one:


This is fun for some people. It’s fine obviously that it isn’t for some of you but not everyone wants their entertainment to be free of these ideas because for a lot of people (millions of people) there’s entertainment gold in these kinds of dynamics where characters are drawn to people they shouldn’t be opposite far better, and nicer, more selfless options. There can be drama for some in the threat of the object of desire not realizing their mistake. There can be drama for some in wanting to go with the horrible option for the thrill of it. There can be drama for some in seeing things more from the guys perspectives and wanting Ben Solo to wake the hell up because chances with women with the qualities of Rey are rare. There can be drama for some in wanting Finn to be less clingy. Some people don’t seek out entertainment involving characters behaving and doing all that they’d do. Some of us are more voyeuristic and like to watch the drama unfolding in ways beyond how we live or what we would do with people who aren’t an awful lot like us. I watch the show Billions and after every episode turn to my wife, “Well, maybe my work day wasn’t so bad after all!” Same thing when I watched House of Cards before. I’m not surprised that many people are repelled by problematic relationship explorations but entertainment is a place where people vote truthfully and sincerely free of judgement with their purchasing and viewing habits and the persistence of problematic and toxic relationship explorations in all forms of entertainment show that there’s a hunger for it. Even as it makes some of you sick to your stomachs.

The key is how they stick the landing. There are ways to explore their potential physical attraction and her ability to prioritize it lower (which she may have already done) and have him step up in the end on his own and become a better person. If they do that then I think the message becomes more that you can’t change people. They can only motivate themselves.

 

I like the idea of a romantic Reylo scenario but I don't think it's going to happen unless Kylo realizes that there is more to life then power. He, ironically, doesn't want to do anything more with his family and the past, but he did what Anakin did not, kill his master. He wanted power above everything else and now he got it and will reap what he sowed. Which is more loneliness at the top. Kylo has kept chosing power over relationships, Han, Rey, etc. Even his mom.

What I still am trying to understand is why in the heck, story telling wise, why is there a force bond link between Kylo and Rey? Now if Snoke was the one to completely bond them to get Rey so he can burn down the Jedi order, with Skywalker and Rey gone, he got his wish, until Kylo ended him which I think he's been wanting to do a long, long time. Kylo seemed, at least in the Force Awakens book to know that Han was right with Snoke using him, hence dead to Master Snoke.

But if Snoke was the one to bind their minds together then wouldn't it have ended when Snoke was dead? I can understand from a story point of view for that part, but then why in the heck did the force bond still continue if was just for that one scene? What's the point of it?

They tried to work together, it didn't work. Rey went one way and Kylo another, why continue it story wise? What's the point of it?!

I like how they have painted the force user relationship in this saga, instead of prime or young vs. old force users in terms of experience and age, they have leveled the playing field with a half trained Jedi/Sith -Kylo and a brand new force user who uses both sides, IMO, -Rey. That's a fascinating concept for me because it's like they are making something new but keeping the awesome parts of the old. They aren't breaking what isn't fix, it's just they are adding on to the house with new material that will blend and combine with the old. If that made any sense.

Now if you want to argue toxic relationship songs, I for some reason think this one really works for Reylo. That and for some reason I picture them flying in this one aka in space ships. No idea why.



On a non-force route, I hope we get more information about the Resistance and what's up with them, the state of the galaxy, etc. because I don't think the last Jedi has done a good job of explaining, and I'm annoyed they tossed out the Knight of Ren completely. I kind of feel like episode 7 and 8 could of been combined into one movie....only because I think we are missing pieces and it's driving me nuts!

 

It’s not binary. By no means was I saying that all people under or over certain ages only feels one way about anything. That would be an absurd statement.

But as someone who sees marketing reports frequently what I can say with confidence is that marketers do have a ton of info on a variety of different demographic breakdowns and preferences and that content creators, politicians, advertisers, etc take that info and move in the areas that seem most statistically relevant. It’s almost never a “all/zero people in this group love/hate _____.” It’s “most/the least amount of people in this group ______.”

The relationship triangle dynamic where there’s usually the safe/nice guy opposite the dangerous/bad option would be eliminated by now given how long it’s been around, among other concerns related to tropes and representation, if the public hated it. There doesn’t seem to be much evidence of that though as YA books, best sellers and movie after movie show that this formula still appeals in interest to enough people to sell. Considering how much teen content in music, TV, movies, books, etc features relationship drama, love triangles, bad boys vs good guys.... it’s only logical to assume it’s selling. If it wasn’t the focus would be something else entirely. They go where the data suggests it would be wise to go.

 

I love how Fry dove into that in the novel:

 

Love this generalization about anyone who likes Reylo--the implication that more credit is due to any who don't like the ship because it's a "toxic relationship." This of course ignores the Star Wars framework regarding who someone is on the dark side vs. the light.

Anyway, condescension noted.

 

I think they should stay enemies.

 

There’s shipping a pairing and expecting it to be canon. They are distinctly different things, and one can take no issue and make no judgments re the former while being confounded by the latter.

 

There's only one type of SW ship I like discussing and it flies through space. They should be mortal enemies engaging in mortal kombat.

 

What about patriatic aerial shows?

 

I like those too.

 

@RiddleMeThis - I like both of your comments and do agree with what you said and @JoJoPenelli, I think your final comment sums it up perfectly as to the reason why Rey did not end the unconscious Kylo; that and because she is supposed to embody everything that is good and pure. I realize that had the ground not parted at the end of TFA that she might have actually killed Kylo, but ultimately she is supposed to represent the far end of the scale of what is good and pure in the Star Wars universe - and there is no better example of this in Rey than when Rey rescues a droid she does not know from the vile clutches of Teedo. Rey's heart is good and pure and she easily attachs herself to people and cares about them because of what she has been through and because of the desperation of wanting to be with family (or people that care about her).

And sure, this does not explain how Rey has gone from being tortured by Kylo and wanting to kill him in the TFA, to sitting down with him and talking to him in TLJ. But IMO, this has nothing to do with love from Rey's part. I will definitely concede that there is a degree of Rey caring about Ben (not Kylo Ren - but Ben Solo), but I think this is less about love and more about Rey's good heart and wanting Ben to re-unite with his family (something that she always yearned for herself). That and the fact that she and the Resistance needs his powers to defeat The First Order because Luke refuses to return.

I would have to go back and watch TLJ, but if memory serves me correctly, doesn't all of their "Force-skype" sessions happen after Rey has a moment with Luke where what has exchanged between the two has ended in tension and frustration on Rey's part. Because when this happens, Luke becomes her "enemy" (for the search of a better word) briefly and Kylo becomes her friend whom she can sit down with and talk with and learn from. Okay the cave is the exception (again if memory serves me correctly), but her going there and subsequently talking to Kylo about it afterward is again because of Luke's manner towards her in the first place.

I really do not believe there are any love feelings from Rey's part. I believe that Kylo has a soft spot for her, but with Rey, it is cut and dried friendship (no pun intended). Rey cares about people and once she had started communicating with Kylo and started to understand him a bit more, then yes, she probably did start to care about him a little; that is until that had defeated Snoke and the guards and he offered his hand for her to join him on the dark side and at the helm of The First Order. That's when the "emotional wall" came back up where Rey is concerned and her caring about Ben began to wane.

Because when they look at each other at the end of TLJ and the ramp of the Falcon goes up, that is a pretty symbolic moment of how Rey feels about their friendship (let alone any feelings of love) and Rey's care for him. Rey shuts the door in his face.

 

I get that a lot.

 

I always forget the lyrics to this song....

 

Me too - and usually with a barrage of expletives to go with it.

 

This thread in a year and a half: "why were Rey and Kylo wrestling without their clothes on in that one scene in Episode IX?"

 

Because they met Luke on the nudist planet.