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ST Rey should have joined the dark side and become Empress.

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth Gerbil, May 16, 2020.

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Should Rey have joined the dark side?

  1. Yes

    25 vote(s)
    43.9%
  2. No

    29 vote(s)
    50.9%
  3. Undecided

    3 vote(s)
    5.3%
  1. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    And sadly.....that's what in the end made her dull.
    By the time TROS came around we all knew she'd never turn to the dark side.
    She became predictable.
     
  2. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    The issue with Rey is that the audience is given information about her that is ultimately meaningless. In TFA Rey stalks Kylo at the end of their lightsaber duel much like a hunter stalks its pray. It seems very dark side-ish. Does this have any weight on her character going forward? Nope. In TLJ, during the fight with Snoke's private guards Rey yells in anger during the fight. It seems very dark side-ish Again, does this have weight on her character? Nope.

    So by the time TROS comes around and we see her shooting force lightning and pondering her dark nature it rings hollow because we've already been told that these things exist in a vacuum and don't actually affect her character.

    So, do I think Rey should have gone to the dark side? No. I think, even with all those dark sidey things, it still would have felt like it came out of left field. She was just too static of a character for it to be believable that she would be tempted to the dark side.
     
  3. QUIGONMIKE

    QUIGONMIKE Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2009
    I always wanted Kylo to stay dark and he and Rey "balance" out the force and agree to co-exist by the end of the final film. It would also leave open future film potential with those characters. I hated that they redeemed Ben. Ugh! :(. But Rey as the new Empress would have worked for me too.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  4. KnightStorm

    KnightStorm Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Hmmm....an interesting twist could've been Rey shoving a lightsaber into Kylo,and taking over the First Order herself and attempt to reform it.She could've decided that the one's in charge of the New Republic were selfish and ineffective,and choose to create a new Galactic Empire,and that would've caused some divisions between her allies. Some would fear she's embraced her Palpatine heritage,and others would feel she has a valid point. If nothing else,it could've led to a more interesting story than just copying the OT...
     
    AusStig and QUIGONMIKE like this.
  5. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Yeah. Without a lot more buildup in TFA, TLJ and TROS, Rey going dark would’ve fallen completely flat.
     
  6. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Rey dark was never in the cards and would never happen wilth all the small Rey fans. It's better to turn your villains to the dark side early. And despite what people think Rey has alot of fans and fangirls.
     
  7. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    The problem is then that a character is pigeonholed into this predetermined destiny not for the sake of telling a thrilling and interesting story, but to avoid upsetting established fans and fangirls. That is when you know that your movie is just a soulless, corporate product rather than anything of artistic creation or daring licence.
     
    QUIGONMIKE, Darth PJ and KnightStorm like this.
  8. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Rey is alot like Luke, she might be tempted but in the end she shows she is a jedi at heart will always be one.
     
  9. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    The difference is (IMHO), in the OT, there was a genuine possibility that Luke would turn to the darkside. I doubt Luke going actual darkside was ever in Lucas' overall plan for the story, but Lucas certainly was at pains to weave that danger/threat into the films, which in turn added a sense of real drama to the story. Indeed, Luke's first appearance in ROTJ is walking through the doors of Jabba's palace, cloaked and hooded (very reminiscent of Vader)... and the first thing he does is 'force choke' a guard...
    The ST, in contrast, is never really committed to the notion that Rey can be anything but the hero.... And the 'join me' theme becomes contrived and cliched. Pretty much none of us believed (even after the trailer showing Rey with the red sabre) that Rey would go to the darkside... which only reflected the general lack of peril/drama of the ST... for me anyway.
     
    AusStig likes this.
  10. QUIGONMIKE

    QUIGONMIKE Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Gotta agree here. And it did feel that way. Rey was pretty much flawless and perfect right out of the gate. Great pilot, swordsman, etc, etc. I found her character extremely boring and very "corporate". IMO, she is the weak link in the entire sequel trilogy. It’s like, were they trying to tell us an interesting story with some realistic twists and turns or just placating 7 year old girls? It’s a fair question to ask.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
    AusStig and FightoftheForgotten like this.
  11. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    This is why I won't let my daughter watch this trash. I don't know what lessons she can draw from a woman who is naturally great at almost everything, hardly ever makes mistakes, and just keeps loving the man who abuses her until he magically stops. Those are not the things I want my child to see. There are tons of other wonderfully written female protagonists that my kid can watch; she doesn't need to sit through six hours of Kathleen Kennedy's female empowerment fantasy.

    edit* "Trash" might be too strong of a word. Nothing else is coming to mind though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
    AusStig, alwayslurking and QUIGONMIKE like this.
  12. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Kids shouldn't look up to fictional "role models" anyway because they can only develop an inferiority complex once they realize they'll never measure up. And most fictional role models these days are completely unattainable. They are all overpowered and always resolve conflicts with the said power which is not useful in real life. Most of them never learn or earn anything since powers are transferred randomly (spider bite, hit by an alien blast, stolen power suit that someone else worked on, inherited as birthright,etc) and only repeat "with great power comes great responsibility" but responsibility boils down to inflicting more damage to the environment in order to stop the villain. So nothing really to learn for use in real life. It's all fun but not a great life lesson.

    Rey's main problem is that she's self-sufficient. They want her to be independent to the point that she never needs help either physical or moral and that stands in the way of having actual relationships. She doesn't have any. She only has admirers in various degrees of enchantment with her but she doesn't have relationships because she has no equal. It goes back to overcorrecting damsel in distress. Rey isn't the only character who suffers from this problem. It's actually a whole trend that's going to die down once they feel that they evened out with the past and then they'll start to write actual characters with actual flaws, struggles, problems, etc. But until then, we'll see more Reys.
     
  13. QUIGONMIKE

    QUIGONMIKE Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Damn. That’s a fine post ya got there. Never thought of it that way but that’s why Reys character is so boring. She’s so advanced and way past anyone else that they can only bow to her awesomeness. I guess this kind of thing is running rampant these days, isn’t it? Contrast this to "real" characters that are unsure of themselves, have flaws, suffer loss along the way, etc, etc.

    Again, perfect post. 10 out of 10. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
    AusStig and sian1965 like this.
  14. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
  15. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    I would have liked that too.
    And I'll be honest....much as I loved Ben Solo, fact is I never saw him as a separate entity to Kylo Ren. It was simply a name. If a person had endured years of psychological abuse, and also in all likelihood physical abuse, they would always be damaged.
    Just as Kylo always had some of Ben inside him, as signified by his regret over killing his father, his revulsion at the destruction of Hosnia, and also by him sparing Finn on Jakku, then Ben would always be partly Kylo Ren. I honestly thought that at the end he and Rey would find some kind of middle ground, but no. They chose to ignore the obvious signs of darkness depicted in her in both previous films and reimagine her as a Force goddess, possessed of ultimate power and pure of soul.
    The 'old' Rey would have accepted the broken parts of Ben Solo. The goddess Rey would only want perfection. In the novel they actually stated this twice, once by Rey deciding that she could never 'love Kylo Ren' and again by Ben Solo believing he was meant to die saving Rey 'for the galaxy' (give me strength), because it was all he was good for.
    Considering his character is coded as an abuse victim, I actually find that disturbing.
     
  16. Deanna Montgomery

    Deanna Montgomery Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Rey's self sufficiency is one of the things I liked the most about her. I appreciate seeing a strong woman define herself exactly the way she chooses. I wasn't fond of some of the choices she made, which lessened my appreciation of her character overall. That's a darned shame.

    Had she gone full on dark side I would have loved it, if we would have gotten the story to back it up or another film in the series, as others have pointed out. I would have loved to see her make some pithy dark side comments. "And now Kylo, you will die." That would have been an epic final battle.
     
    QUIGONMIKE likes this.
  17. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Despite some well-worded arguments to the contrary here;

    I didn't find knowing Rey likely wouldn't turn completely killed the drama.
    Maybe that is just me, but I was too caught up in the excitement of seeing it all play out.
    The movie's score and the acting performances carried it, and there was enough new about it to keep me hooked.

    Just my opinion.
     
  18. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020

    If by 'man who abuses her' you're referring to Kylo, I honestly didn't see much love for him in Rey in TROS - she tried to kill him twice, healed him because she felt guilty, kissed him because she was grateful for him giving his life energy to her (stated in the novel) then after he died doing the latter forgot him!
     
    QUIGONMIKE likes this.
  19. zackm

    zackm Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    There wasn't.
     
  20. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I never believed Luke or Rey would turn to the dark side.
     
  21. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    You’re wrong.
     
    AusStig likes this.
  22. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Luke was never in danger of going to the dark side.
     
  23. Starith

    Starith Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2020
    I think Rey, or at least the idea of her character, could've been a more compelling and original idea for an ST villain than Kylo Ren (the Skywalker/ Solo kid going bad). Not only because she's Palpatine's granddaughter clone-descendant, but because we haven't really had a female villain in the films before, and giving her Kylo's "I need to be like my grandfather" obsession would probably be more believable, not to mention the grudge against the Skywalkers.
     
    AusStig likes this.
  24. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Imagine writing characters this way.
     
  25. zackm

    zackm Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Are there any examples of family films where the good protagonist turns bad/evil? I feel like that's just not a thing. So to expect it to happen in Star Wars or be upset if it doesn't happen seems a little weird.