ST Rey should have joined the dark side and become Empress.

That doesn't change anything about whether or not it was actually a natural continuation. If he thought this was, I think that just exposes how close minded his abilities with this movie was.

And how do you know what RJ really truly thought about it all?

 

It does show her going to the dark side. Hell, she slides right into the dark side sphincter on Ach-To and she's always angry when she fights; yelling out. She certainly fights just as aggressive as Anakin in the PT.

This issue is that the movie is poorly made and so these instances are contradicted sometimes. It doesn't mean they aren't there though.

 

None of that is going dark side

And she didn’t even know about the dark side hole on Ahch-to. If only she had someone there on that island to explain it. Oh wait..he did. He said the dark side was a natural part of balance. And because he refuses to help her she seeks some actual answers..and then he scolds for thinking it was okay when it was he who planted that thought in her head

Rey is never in danger of going dark. Every time she “gets angry” or haha fights too aggressively (I suppose she should be fighting passively) she backs off instantly with no hesitation whatsoever. The dark side has nothing to offer Rey. Nothing. She’s not even interested in its power.

 

I would argue that in both TFA and TLJ there is enough of her pull to the darkness that it could have been expanded on in IX as opposed to completely ignoring it all and suddenly having her pull to the dark being from shared blood instead. I would also say that both TFA and TLJ are so poorly made that these "links" are never utilized in their own narratives ... but they are there. Ignoring them is the same as pretending they're no there at all and I refuse to do that. It's not my fault that Disney/LFL made contradictory ass narratives.

 

It's only barely there in both of the movies, which I understand for TFA, it's the first movie, but TLJ's just like "yeah, you went to the dark" from Luke and then she goes into the hole and... that's it. There's no structure of temptation and nothing offered that would make her join Kylo, as far as her overall character goes, because Kylo lacks the intelligence of Palpatine or Vader to even attempt to use anything that she might want, to get her, because he's a moron. He doesn't even try the, "you can save your friends" tactic.

I think the movie does this with DJ and Finn as well, where I think the movie thinks that DJ is tempting Finn, but he's really saying not much (oohhh, they both buy weapons from the same people) and Finn never shows any danger of really taking his side.

 

@dagenspear I would argue that MOST of TLJ is just "yeah, that happened" without any logic being put behind it. We've got Rey jumping right into the allure of the darkness and we've got her acting super aggressive during the lightsaber fight.

I don't mean to get argumentative. It is there. Nothing was done with it. That's all I'm saying.

 

I don't see any issue here with what I said.

 

In TFA Rey is introduced to the force, gains control over it, and is tempted to join Kylo on the dark side all in one movie, almost all within 1 hour of screen time. And she immediately closes her eyes, refocuses, and resists any temptation. Whatever anger she had is calmed. The dark side never offers her anything of value, as she's never really into getting more powers, or seeking power over others, and especially not even really knowing who her parents were, which is her big deal in the movie and subsequent movie. The dark side just showed her infinite versions of her self. Wow. What a grand realization.

Rey's journey through dark side temptation and resistance is a microwave dinner.

 

I personally don't necessarily see it as her calming her anger. I see it as her connecting with the force directly.

 

Well, whatever that is, she's not tempted by it after about 3 seconds.

There is no temptation. The one thing she wants is to have her parents come back, or belong to something. And the dark side just doesn't offer her that at all.

The belonging she wants from Ben is on her terms. She wants him to join her on the light side. She's never really interested in belonging with Ben on the dark.

 

In that situation, I think similarly, in regards to what Kylo offers. Kylo has nothing she wants in that situation. It's the same thing at the end of TLJ. He has nothing he's actually offering her, but thinks him asking will do something? He doesn't even have the threat of her life that he may have had in TFA! The movie is basically repeating TFA, but somehow it got there is a dumber character way. It's madness.

 

I would have liked to see Rey struggle with the dark side, I mean its in her ‘nature’ as Kylo said in TROS.

Maybe we will see her face the dark side within in the next film.

 

Ah, Kylo said it’s in her nature? I guess that means he was right…

 

That's just because Rey is a Palpatine, and she has evil dark sider worms living in her blood. Which, according to Luke, she needs to overcome her evil nature with her spirit.

And it's dumb. There's no such thing as evil dark sider blood. Rey isn't evil just because she's 2 generations removed from Palpatine. Her parents were fine people who didn't need to overcome their evil blood. And so doesn't Rey.

The dark side is in all of us because we are all frail creatures with selfish desires, needs, emotions, ambitions. We can either follow our hearts or choose the darker selfish side of life. It's not because of some inherent blood or blood line.

This is ultimately just an extremely shallow understanding of the force and the dark side - and more importantly human nature - by JJ.

 

I took it he meant “the dark side is in our nature,” to suggest patterns, or generational sin. That they have easier disposition to the darkness. Which can be true in some cases, though Rey in ST seems very resistant to the dark side.

 

that’s exactly the notion @DarkGingerJedi was criticizing.

In the original trilogy, the contrast between Luke and his father worked because he was tempted by the same fears and aggressive feelings as his father, which was based on what Luke wanted and not who his parents were.

In the ST, Rey’s family relationship to Palpatine could be a temptation. But the film doesn’t develop this outside of one scene

 

That’s unfortunately not what the movie says. It’s literally because she’s a Palpatine. She’s evil by nature of her bloodline. And she needs to over come this thru her spirit. Luke mentions this in his scene with Rey.

 

Hmmm.. is that in Rise of Skywalker or The Last Jedi?

 

I think it would be true to say that both TLJ and TROS allude to the possibility that Rey may be tempted by the darkside (or may be tapping into it). However, the issue (IMO) is that it's never explored in any meaningful way, other than as a tease.... and this is a common issue with the ST i.e. the writers throw things at the wall in desperation to see what sticks. And because the writers are not seemingly emotionally/creatively engaged in the ideas (generally speaking), invariably they don't stick, or don't pay off dramatically, because they are underdeveloped.

 

The Rise of Skywalker.

Luke: What are you doing?
Rey: I saw myself on the dark throne. I won't let it happen. I'm never leaving this place. I'm doing what you did.
Luke: I was wrong. It was fear that kept me here. What are you most afraid of?
Rey: Myself.
Luke: Because, you're a Palpatine? Leia knew it, too.
Rey: She didn't tell me. She still trained me.
Luke: Because she saw your spirit. Your heart. Rey, some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don't face Palpatine, it will mean the end of the Jedi, and the war will be lost.
​

There's no other way of interpreting this. Rey thinks she's going to be evil now, now that she knows she's a Palpatine. And Luke confirms that she needs to overcome her evil blood with stronger spirit/heart. JJ is saying the spirit is stronger than blood. And Rey has evil blood. Because she's the daughter of Palpatine's clone, or something.

Rey has no more or no less dark side temptation than any other living creature/human. Not because she's suddenly a Palpatine. She should or could be tempted by the dark side because of what it could offer her as a human being. As it did with Anakin. Or because she shares personality traits with that of her grandfather and might make the same decisions he made. As it did with Luke.

Lightsaber swing styles are not it. If Rey was domineering, calculating, manipulative, duplicitous, or wanted to rule with absolute power, than maybe this sudden realization might work. But Rey is none of those things. The dark side has never offered her anything. But just being a Palpatine does not do it. And is inherently a complete misunderstanding of the force and why humans become seduced to do evil.

 

The lightsaber thrust waa a hint at the revaal she is a Palpatine. Not that she woukd fall to the dark side.

 

I still can’t believe how colossally stupid that all is.

 

We need follow up on Rey seeing the vision of herself on the throne:

 

it isn't.

When JJ made TFA he had no clue or idea that Rey was going to be a Palpatine. Or that years tater it would be him who would have to figure out just who Rey was.

And just because I can shoot a 3 pointer doesn't mean I'm Larry Bird's grandson. Or are you now saying that lightsaber moves are carried in her DNA? Is that it? The fact that you keep relying on this saber move to prove the hints are there just proves how incredibly shallow all of this is.