ST Rey Skywalker/Daisy Ridley Discussion Thread

Ok but that's all too meta is what I'm saying. It doesn't really make sense in-universe. Now to be fair I think that's exactly what happened, the filmmakers only thought about it from a symbolic perspective, but that's what I'm complaining about. Finn using it for a bit while he starts his training(assuming he gets training of course) doesn't suddenly make the saber "about him" any more than Han picking it up to slice open a tauntaun. It's just a tool, an inanimate object. I'm imagining a scene where Finn says "hey Rey, I don't have a lightsaber and you have 3. Can I borrow one?" and she responds "sorry, I can't do that because of symbolism. Into the desert they must go." It hurts the immersion of the universe.

I mean, I'd think more Jedi in the galaxy is better whenever she feels ready, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying I wish they had been more clear that bringing back the Jedi is something she is even interested in doing. The time frame is not as important.

I'm just saying I don't think "The OT is depressing" is a reasonable perspective.

I didn't think they would go that route with Luke but here we are. Why should Rey be different?

Rey couldn't keep herself from blowing up a ship when she thought her friend was on board. She's definitely killing Finn and Jannah's kid in his sleep when she gets the chance. Luke having remaining students alive would go against basically everything the movies set up so I guess we can count on it. (To be fair, the ones who turned evil suddenly stopped being Knights of Ren between movies apparently so I guess they're still out there doing who knows what. Betting on podraces probably.)

If they really wanted to such an important plot point to be clear to the audience it would have been very easy for Finn and said saber to be in that scene, if only in the background, but for some reason they chose not to do that. Just like they chose to cut Jannah being Lando's daughter out of the film, once again making what we did get unnecessarily confusing.

I'm not saying he shouldn't build his own at some point, but 1) he's a beginner and 2) there's probably a shortage of available Kyber crystals at the moment, especially given the Illum situation. It's very common in Star Wars for beginners to use an existing lightsaber until they're ready to build there own.

To be honest I don't think that scene actually makes sense given how their previous interactions worked, but it looked really cool and it's not in my top 100 complaints about the ST so I'll give it a pass.

Well I'm not offended because I don't think this "your side" you're referring to actually includes me. I mean, I think Finn was handled poorly for sure, but he can get in line as far as that's concerned. Let's just say there are people on here who are a lot more passionate about Finn then I am. (If you really want to get me riled up about the way a character was treated in the ST try Ackbar or Nien Nunb if they ever confirm he's dead.)

Again, I get the symbolism clear enough, it's about as subtle as a sledgehammer. I just have a problem with symbolism purely for symbolism's sake. It has to occur naturally within the story. I don't think there was anything "natural" about that whole scene.

 

I think....
JJ Abrams' friendship with Daisy, John and Oscar affected much of TROS. Poe Dameron was slated to die in TFA, Oscar asked him to reconsider, Poe lived and ended up with more scenes in TROS than Tran and Driver.
Daisy and John wanted more scenes together, so we get the new Trio.
But they didn't have the same chemistry as Ford, Hamill and Fisher. Curiously, Boyega and Isaac did, but add Rey to the mix and it didn't work. In fact,cthe scene where Poe and Rey were arguing worked far better. They would have made good adversaries.
Yet another thing I hated about TROS.....we never got to see the Resistance react to Rey's Force bond with their enemy, or how Poe might have reacted to finding Rey had gone to Kylo willingly.
And we never got to see if Hux found out about Kylo killing Snoke. Wasted opportunities.

 

JJ Abrams' problem when it comes to how characters interact with each other is that he only has two modes

1. The characters shout at each other
2. The characters talk over each other at the same time

Number 2 is really irritating to me. Scenes like in TFA when Rey and Finn first get to speak to each other on the Falcon after fleeing Jakku, and in TROS during the chess game when Finn and Poe speak at the same time.

 

I actually think Ridley, Boyaga and Isaac had great chemistry together (and Boyaga with Tran as well, it's a shame she got shafted in TROS), and I found that it was really well utilized in the "adventure" section of the first half of the film.

I don't think the perspective has to be "resonable" if we're discussing personal tastes and ones ability to find enjoyment of the francise.

No offense but I think your getting hung up on my (admittedly maybe too silly) take on the OT specificly and missing the forest for the trees. The point I was making essentially boils down to "how peaple came out of the ST feeling is due to their personal tastes and perspective" - the trilogy is at the same time depressing, hopeful, bittersweet and any number of other things based on the perspective of the individual viewer.

Well, let's just say that unless they give JJ Abrams absolute control over writing all stories going forward, I doubt they'll take that path.

Come on now, Rey did'nt blow up that ship on purpose or even by intent, and I think you know that.

No more then anyone who survived Order 66 went agianst the OT and PT - nothing in the ST rules out other Jedi being alive, it's just that the peaple in the trilogy (or at least the main characters and Luke/Han) think there are no others.

That scene was'nt about Finn, it was about Rey, Luke and Leia. And, honestly, I don't think whether or not Finn has/gets/builds a lightsaber is an importent plot point.

When it comes to building lightsabers Rey's as much a beginner as Finn, and yet by the time that scene rolls around (agian, we don't know how much time has passed) she's had time to find a kyber crystal and figure out how to build a saber. So if she can do that, Finn could have to.

It's confirmed - it's in the novelization, if I recall correctly.

Your Nunb is dead, son, accept it

I'm not overly fond of the "Rey Skywalker" bit, but other then that I actually felt that the scene was one of the few in the film that felt natural (maybe the only one, actually - with any number of courses this series could take from the start I could buy any number of them ending with that scene)

There's almost a year between TLJ and TROS, and while I did'nt ever think that such a minor point would end up being brought up myself, long enough has passed that if they cared (if they did to begin with, that is, and honestly I can't really see why they would) they probobly (and hopefully) would have moved on by now.

I don't think he'd care - if anything I'd expect he'd be upset he did'nt get to do it first, not that it happened.

 

The PT Jedi numbered in the thousands. Luke said he started the failure temple with a dozen students plus his twerp of a nephew. When did they multiply? I also doubt they had any great achievements or that anyone was successfully trained. In the words of Bones: they are dead, Jim.

If they go there, Disney will probably want to cement Rey only as super-successful Grandmistress of a thriving Jedi Order.

Or they just keep everything vague and opaque and never commit to anything.

 

Per TLJ Luke founded his academy when he started training Ben, and the TLJ VD says that happened in 10 ABY, so that's eighteen years where Luke was training students en mass plus five years prior were he could have trained an individual student or more for all we know. On top of that the Rise of Kylo Ren comic revealed that at least three students where'nt present when the academy was destroyed, so who says they were the only ones?

Probobly almost immedatly - I'd assume ambitious, image-driven peaple and pro-Jedi families would be lining up to have their FS kid trained by the Hero of Yavin.

Why not? Twenty-eight years is a lot of time, and in the EU Luke's Jedi (and Luke himself) carried out a number of heroics between 10 and 28 ABY, so why can't the new canon Jedi do the same?

I doubt they'll do that, since not only would it be essentially impossible to do going forward but there's to much potential to be mined for future stories to be ingored.

 

Heh,heh, when I saw that fan snapshot of JJ and Oscar at the Israeili/Jordanian border I immediately thought "ah ha ha Oscar has weaseled his way into more screen time, just wait when he gets more than Finn". And he did! More than the other 2 was a given but over Finn was a nice touch considering Poe's screen time extension is never blamed for Finn screen time shrinkage. He also got a bigger poster figure than Finn in all TROS marketing.

There's a reason for that. or two. Number one, he doesn't care about character scenes much so he shortcuts it with "if they talk over each other or finish each other's sentences that means they instantly bonded". Number two, cause some of his characters, at least ST ones, are basically the same character split in 2,3,4, shouting at each other drowns the fact that they all sound the same, no distinguishing character voice. Culmination of this is They Fly Now where 3 characters have the same reaction to one thing. This was supposed to be TROS's Where/Who/Why is Gamora gag from Infinity War that outlined character individuality but only drove the point they were an indistinguishable blur.

 

There is zero in the new canon that makes me think that and a lot that makes me think the opposite. At this point it is headcanon anyway and nothing could convince me to have a positive one.

Well, to bad than since I would not touch any story about "Rey's Jedi Order" unless they Luke Skywalkered it. Anything that is even mildly successful? Hard pass.

 

Not to say I disagree, but Rey did repair Anakin's lightsaber. Granted, all she had to do was Force heal the kyber crystal and reassemble the weapon, but that would've given her an idea of how it was put together in the first place
You're right, though. With guidance from Rey and the Jedi texts (and possibly a Force ghost or two), Finn would probably be able to build his own lightsaber.

 

well, since he couldn't use a simple toolkit he will need someone to make a saber for him.

 

And? A tauntaun gets a bigger picture on the ESB poster then Chewbacca, R2 and 3P0 combined, so what?

Was it?

I've seen a few peaple say that, but the scenes don't really seem that similer to me (like, at all similer). Really, I don't think that scene had anything to do with "character individuality" and was just their for plain ol' comedy.

If your determianed to be a negative nancy then there's nothing I can do about that, but I will say this - there's thirty-four years between ROTJ and TFA where the New Republic was in power and managed to keep the peace, and for almost twenty of those Luke was training Jedi. Those stories are going to be told eventually (sooner, rather then later - once it reaches Season 2 the Mandalorian will overlap with when Luke was training his students) and if you think some stories set during that period won't involve Luke's Jedi as major players, or will be soley negative and won't involve plenty of triumps by the heroes, I expect your'll find yourself suprised.

That seems petty IMO, but your entitled to spend your money how you want. It does'nt really matter though - LFL does'nt publish books and comics soley for your benefit, and while your crossing your arms and grumbling about how much you hate Rey plenty of other peaple will be buying, reading and enjoying those new stories.

 

I really hope not. I quite enjoyed the Mandalorian and I hope to keep enjoying it but if they bring in ST stuff to the point where I can`t ignore that anymore, it would be my off ramp.

I never claimed they make it or have to make it for my benefit, I will just steer clear of any post ST-stories unless they make them super-unrelated. Anyway, it`s easier to ignore books and comics because they don`t receive promotion on the level that is difficult to avoid like movies or TV shows.

 

I never said that the Mandalorian would involve ST stuff (though I'm not sure how Luke Skywalker and Jedi classifys as "ST stuff" - by that regard you should'nt watch the OT or the PT either), just that the stories currently being told are already starting to overlap with the timeframe in which we know for a fact Luke's order exists.

It's strange to me, though, that you dislike the ST so much that anything even remotely related to it makes it immedatly off-limits; personally even when I hate something I try to keep an open mind.

And as I said, that seems petty to me. But it's your business and to each their own

 

Despite my dislike for the ST, I actually hope that the TV shows and future films draw connections to it, as that can help flesh out and improve the ST world. Resistance, for example, while not everyone’s cup of tea, added layers of political complexity to the ST galaxy that helps the world-building for the era. Similar to how TCW really improves the PT era, which otherwise feels a bit thin and artificial. So I say bring on the connections, as long as they feel organic.

 

I think a sghow like TCW for the sequel era can do wonders for characters as Rey. Maybe the rebels sequel can do more for the sequel era.

 

I know it will all have a very bad ending in the ST. Mando so far is vague enough and not really intrinsically tied into it to escape that vortex. Anything Luke-and-Jedi-related isn't.

 

By that logic you should'nt read, watch or play anything featuring the Jedi or the Republic set before ROTS, becuase you know it will have a bad ending.

Why should the destination matter? It's the journey that's important.

Agreed.

The peaple who dislike Rey (and the others) so strongly should keep in mind that once upon a time a great many peaple also bore the same kind of dislike for Anakin/Padme, only to change their tune once TCW "salvaged" the characters (myself included).

 

I think the era past TROS will be good eras for the jedi. they go bak to their roots as monks and portect the people and not involve themself in politics. They rebuild and regrow slowly with small conflics here and there. Maybe someday the'll return to Corucant and rejoin the republic but this time will not act as the senates police force.

 

The PT ultimately had a good ending - with characters I liked - in the OT. That makes all the difference to me. And a bad ending can totally ruin a story. If it makes the journey meaningless. Like, I have little interest to rewatch Game of Thrones now because that journey turned out to be a supreme waste of time for many characters.

I did like Anakin and Padme in the PT and didn`t need them salvaged for me so I can`t speak to that. Meanwhile what I need to salvage a character like Rey - catharsis - is doubtful to be put to screen.

 

The ST had a pretty good ending; or at least it's ending was about as good ("good" in terms of "good for the characters and the universe," not quality) as that of the OT, so in that regard we end up in the same place if were saying "the PT ultimately had a good ending" since the ST is the ending point of the three trilogies. The ST having an ending you did'nt like does'nt make that ending bad or the journey meaningless, it just makes it one that you did'nt personally enjoy.

As for Game of Thrones, well, you should have come out of the end of the very first season relizing it was'nt going to have a happy ending, and if you did'nt then you definantly should have relized it at the end of Season 3 - it was never going to be that kind of show.

The point is it's something to keep in mind - if peaple felt the same way about Anakin that you do about Rey but then turned that around, whose to say something similier won't happen to you at some point? You never know.

How do you know? For all you know at some point in the future she'll get a book/game/comic/show that will make your opinion of her turn around and you'll get that catharsis and start enjoying the character.

That's what happened with me regarding Anakin after TCW - fifteen years ago I felt much the same way you do about Rey about him, and if you told me then how I feel about him now I'd laugh you out of the room. You can't say how the future will turn out or how you'll end up feeling tommorow, led along a decade from now.

That's not really what I'm saying - all I'm doing is pointing out that TCW "redeemed" Anakin (and Padme, though she was never quite as hated as he was) in a lot of peaples eyes to the point were he's been recotextualized and they now enjoy him in the films, so there's no reason such a thing could'nt happen with Rey in the future.

 

I think, to me, I think that was made the way it was and adding things later, to me, doesn't change how it was done then.

 

For me enjoyment factor - which is the only thing I`m talking about here - yes, it absolutely does. I`m not talking about it in abstract terms.

I didn`t expect a happy ending at all. But the ending we got I felt was anticlimactic, ill-set up and pointless.

I know when I truly resent a character that that is not gonna change. Especially as they are not gonna un-ruin Luke for me. Because those two go hand in hand for me. Again, not speaking for how it is for others.

I wouldn`t enjoy her character if I got my catharsis, I would enjoy it happening to her. Then a new character could come in with the potential for me to like them. That is best case scenario - and equally completely unrealistic scenario, I do know that.

 

Given how the ST was made I don't think it's really possible for it to have a coherent message overall, but I never read the message of TLJ specificly as being that - I think it was more "sometimes things don't work out the way you hoped and even the best of us are as Human as everybody else and make mistakes, but it's how you respond and react to those mistakes that matter* and show what kind of person you are."

Both Luke (with Ben in the hut), Rey (by blinding trusting her vision and going to Ben) and Poe (with his disobaying orders and his feud with Holdo) made mistakes, but in the end they all pull themselves up; Luke relizies he's been wrong and bounces back better then ever for one last, big heroic moment to safeguard the future of the galaxy, Rey refuses to let her misake and the revealation of her parents bring her down, Poe relizies what he did wrong and emerges a better and wiser leader becuase of it.

*I mean, Yoda essentially says as much.

I don't think that would be very hard, since I'm sure for all intents and purposes the post-ST stories will be treated as a different "era" in the same way the post-ROTJ stories were; same characters and factions (though I imagine the Resistence will quickly be absorbed into the NR or whatever other goverment takes power in its place) but new stories, added characters and an evolving universe.

But that does'nt mean the journey was meaningless, it just means you did'nt personally like were it ended up - plenty of peaple did, to varying degrees, and if just one person enjoyed how the ST ended then nothing was meaningless.

It was a bit rushed, true, but it's been stated multipule times that despite the vergences in plots both the show and the books will end the same way, so the way the show ended is that way it was always going to end.

Agian, you can't say that for sure - once upon I time I was sure I would never like Anakin and that Vader would never be un-ruined, but fifteen years later and here we are; never say never.

So if I'm reading you correctly "catharsis" in this case is brought on by the character suffering for no other reason then "I don't like them, so I want to see them burn."

No offense, but that's a little messed up. Other peaple enjoy her, so why can't you let them have that and be happy for them? To a lot of peaple she's to them what Luke was to you, Corran Horn was to me and Anakin is to others, and there should'nt be a problem with that, should there?

 

I thought I was clear in saying that i mean "meaningless to me"?

I know myself and I know what I can be sure about. This is one of those.

I was just stating what my catharsis would be. I don't expect it to happen. Which actually wouldn't be so much "suffering" but being brought low as ruined just like I think Luke was. Which shouldn't actually be a problem for people who didn't think he was ruined and humiliated? If it was great for him, it shouldn't be horrible for her either, no? Or else I'd consider it pretty hypocritical if somehow there was a mandate that she must get better treatment.