ST Rey Skywalker/Daisy Ridley Discussion Thread

None of Rey's friendships require an outside force to make them work either, since Kylo's not her friend, and while they have a "relationship" in the sense that they know each other and feel they have a connection, they don't really know each other and their relationship is largely antagonistic and both that relationship and their connection are definded by their experiences with each other, not their Force-bond/dyad.

Anakin still had free will. The Father removed the memories that would have allowed him to (hopefully) avoid falling, but in the end he still chose to be evil of his own accord.

No, the dyad is there becuase some peaple online yelled loud enough that they got Abrams's attention and he decided to pander to them. It's redundent becuase not only did we already have an explanation for their connection, but the dyad is essentially the same expanation given a second time and there was nothing new that it added that could'nt just have been added to the existing Force-bond.

 

Perhaps they should have chosen somebody with a different vision, as they had already thrown the vision Lucas sold them away so they clearly weren't opposed to such a move. But they definitely screwed up by not having an overall vision for the trilogy itself, and instead trying to mash two or three different visions together.

I'll be honest despite the amount of time we've spent on the topic its hardly the most glaring issue with the film imo. I didn't even really think about it myself until others pointed it out. But the thing is once I did think about it I realized that there was a lot of upside and no downside to including the scene. That suggests to me that they simply didn't think about it either, rather than making a conscious decision not to include it. And a lack of thinking things all the way through is, I feel like, the same root cause of most of the problems I have with the film, both large and small. To me almost every aspect of the film feels flimsy and falls apart if you think about it all, and on top of that there's not even good action scenes that I can turn my brain off and enjoy.

Well I think you might be reading a bit much into it but I could be wrong so I'll let others speak for themselves there.

I'm pretty sure the point is she lives on a backwater planet selling scavenged ship parts and her knowledge of the greater universe is entirely dependent on the local gossip. The kind of people who frequent Jakku junk dealerships aren't going to be average New Republic citizens, they're going to be frontier people who might be involved in a bit of smuggling themselves. To them a fast(aka short lol) Kessel Run is going to be more noteworthy than whatever political movement the elites are up to these days. Presumably the only reason she's heard about the Luke stuff is because its an interesting rumor about sorcery being real and the Emperor himself being killed by his underling, rather than a "normal" story about some Rebels blowing up a shield generator. Now as always I don't vouch for whether the ST actually makes perfect sense or not, I'm just saying that's the explanation I took from the film.

Well considering the movie doesn't see the need to address it at all how else am I supposed to feel? It's even more confusing when TROS has Rey stab Kylo and then immediately Force-undo that action before simply running off with no explanation at all. The whole plot of the ST revolves around Rey and Kylo's relationship and they didn't give us hardly anything to work with on that front at all. I can mostly understand Kylo's thoughts about Rey, but Rey's thoughts about Kylo simply don't seem to matter enough to be explored in any meaningful way.

Releasing new material doesn't just automatically make you bigger than someone who currently isn't. Releasing a play doesn't automatically give you more pop culture relevance than William Shakespeare just because he's been dead for 400 years. Creative works have continued relevance long past their initial release date.

Well I certainly wasn't so I think you must have lost me somewhere along the way. I mean I guess I mentioned that they started getting more views after TLJ at one point but that was specifically to say that the audience interested in negative opinions had grown as a result of the movie itself, not because those YouTubers started working harder or something like that.

Well then my work here is done.

I understand that you don't care, but I don't really see how it could be considered not important. I mean I don't really care about Anakin and Padme's romance in AOTC but I still understand why it's in the movie because it is very important to the story. Whether Kylo lives or dies potentially alters the whole fate of the galaxy so why shouldn't we know the main character's thought process in that choice? I mean we even got the exact same scene but with Hux in the movie, although from what I've been told that was the actor's idea and Johnson didn't think of that either.

 

Well, I'm not going to disagree with the bolded, but as far as I recall Disney was obligated to use Lucas's outlines.

I'll be honest, I feel that way about most SW films - and a lot of films in general.

Well, the holonet exists and we have no reason to think she can't get access to it, so there's that.

TNG and DS9 were pretty big shows, and that's on top of Star Trek being a pretty big thing itself.

Then it seems we've been having two different conversations and thinking we were sharing one

For the record though, I don't think those Youtube videos really appeal to the peaple who had valid, fair-minded compliants with TLJ, since their designed more for the rapid "KK is literally the devil and killed SW forever" crowd.

Becuase from my perspective it's just not nessesery for me to know why she did'nt murder him while he was out cold. I personally don't feel that it's so importent that the movie needs to explain it and I don't feel the need to have every little thing that happens between the scenes explained to me.

 

I'm assuming you meant "wasn't obligated" but that's my point, they weren't obligated to use Johnson's outlines either.

Well I've spent a lot, to put it mildly, of time thinking about SW films in my life and although there's a few things that I still haven't found a satisficatory answer for, I've generally had the opposite experience for the first 6 films. That's a large part of why I like the movies so much, and how I ended up a site where I could discuss them more in the first place.

We've got no reason to think she can get access to it. They've never even introduced it into the movies as far as I'm aware and there's certainly no indication that there's easy access on Jakku of all places. There are places in the US where internet access is incredibly difficult to come by, I've been to some, let alone other places on Earth.

Yes, but Star Wars isn't "pretty big", it's HUGE. There's a reason "Star Tours" existed before Disney ever had the rights to Star Wars, and it isn't a Star Trek ride.

I think there were people who had a bad experience with the film and were simply looking for somewhere to put the blame without thinking for themselves because that's hard. If some guy on YouTube goes on a rant about how it's all KK's fault then they go "Well she is in charge of Star Wars and it is ruined now so that makes sense to me. Let's grab our pitchforks and fix this!" When TROS was also disappointing they saw that as more "proof" since KK is the common denominator between 8 and 9, and since a lot of people who like TLJ didn't like TROS they see that as others "waking up" to the truth they already discovered. Politics is another example of where when people start out mad they're likely to believe anything online that they feel justifies that anger.

But I don't see how it could be considered a little thing. This is an unconscious, super-powered space fascist allegedly close to conquering the galaxy we're talking about here. We get to see Hux contemplate killing him and he wants space fascism to conquer the galaxy.

 

I don't think Johnson had outlines for TROS. He set up the story to go a certain way, but as much as I think they should have gone in that direction and it was disrespectful to try and retcon whatever they could get away with, they were'nt obigated to go in that direction.

And I did mean wasn't, thank you.

I've found plenty of satisfactory answers as well, but that's becuase I A) don't let reading to much into things ruin my moviegoing experience and B) I'm perfectly content to either wait for an explanation for something that does'nt make sense or use my imagination and think of one myself.

Like, I had to wait decades for an explantion for why the Death Star had such an obvious and stupid weakness, but I did'nt let the fact that it existed unexplianed for so long ruin my enjoyment of ANH.

As far as we know the holonet is free to access and does'nt have connection issues the same way the internet would (it can be jammed, but I don't think we have an instances of "this planet does'nt get good holonet reception").

And Jakku really is'nt that remote - heck, Lothal is waaaay more remote then Jakku is and they don't have any trouble accessing the holonet.

Star Trek has also had a number of Star Tours style rides as well.

And what your discribing is an example of what I would not call a reasonable person.

Yeah, but Rey is'nt Hux. We already know that she does'nt want to kill him anymore at that point in the film, so we don't need to see that re-harshed; personally I would find the scene you wish happened to be both unnessery and jarring, and IMO I'd rather not have the flow of the plot slowed down for something I don't feel the movie needed.

 

It's not really a matter of a lack of faith (no more then Luke going to Yoda or Bail and Mothma trying to recruit Obi-Wan was a lack of faith in the Rebellion on their parts); there on the defense, outgunned and clearly need the help, a fact they themselves reconize as its they who sent her to recruit Luke in the first place.

Had Kylo actually turned as Rey had every reason to believe he would from her "vision," his insider knowledge alone - to say nothing of his skills and abilities - would have been a major boon to the Resistence, especially if he still killed Snoke before running of to join them. As far as Rey knew, based on the incorrect information that she had, she was making a solid strategic move.

 

hi guys here's the guy who blew up that planet. He's with us now.

 

Peaple have done things as bad or worse then Kylo had (at that point in his life) and still been accepted by their former enemies for less - Wernher von Braun was an active member of the SS who used slave labor from concenration camps in his efforts to build more powerful and deadly weapons for the Nazis, yet the Americans eagerly sought him out after the war and recruited and protected him becuase they needed his knowledge to get ahead over the Soviets in the missile and space race; sometimes you have to swollow the bile in your throat and accept help from peaple who are either horrible or have done horrible things if you want to beat your enemies, especially when your desperate like the Resistence was at that point.

I doubt anyone but Leia and Rey would have accepted Kylo (Ben, technically, during this hypothetical), but anyone would have been a fool to turn him away given how desperate the Resistence was at that point and the vital insider knowledge of the FO he possesed.

Well, good thing I was'nt comparing them.

Or Luke trying to recruit Vader?

Rey is'nt Mon Mothma. She's an nineteen year-old with limited experience with the world at large and virtually no experience with the Force whose largely figuring things out as she goes. She made a mistake that a more experienced and knowledgeable person would'nt have made, and she learned from that mistake.

For Rey it did. She had no reason to think Snoke was manipulating her and did'nt even know it was possible Force visions could be wrong; she can only act off what she knows or thinks, after all.

 

I'm talking about TLJ lol. Johnson followed his vision to be sure but that doesn't mean Johnson's vision for Episode 8 was the one Disney had to go with. That was their choice.

See, I never thought that needed any explanation and as much as I love Rogue One that's one of my minor complaints about it. Technology is hard, you ever try to invent something with lots of pieces before? You ever even used electronics at all? I super believe that a fatal weakness to a 1-in-a-million shot can slip through just the normal cracks in engineering. They were too proud of the technological terror they constructed and they paid the price for it. I think it's less likely they wouldn't notice this flaw if they happened to know that the chief engineer on the whole project was a Rebel sympathizer.

There is absolutely nothing in any of the movies that suggest to me Rey has been Rey has been reading up on Han Solo on the holonet and that's all I really care to say about that.

That may be so but I was just saying that a video made by someone with a sexist agenda can still appeal to people who aren't sexist but just aren't thinking about it that much, making it seem like there's more sexists out there than there are.

What?? No we don't otherwise I wouldn't have any problem. As far as Rey's concerned Kylo was a potential ally up until just the last scene when he was like "nah I still love conquering the galaxy and killing people, if we're teaming up we're doing it on the Dark Side". It would be pretty logical for Rey's response to that to be "well shoot guess I got to kill him now". I mean what exactly was she going to do if she had managed to pull the lightsaber to herself, just turn and run away?

 

I mean, they hired him and had him write and shoot the film, so it would be pretty weird if they did'nt "go with it" at that point.

If there had been an issue with the film in their opinion they would have told him to re-write it or hired someone else.

It's pretty silly to have an uncovered vent only defended agianst one type of attack that leads immedatly to your main reactor, especially when the thing the vent is on can't do evasive manuvers to avoid things being dropped down it (it's almost impossible to drop a bomb down a smokestack, for instance, becuase ships can move around)

Her wide-eyed, fangirlish reaction upon meeting him, the fact that she knew enough about him to know the obscure smuggler stuff and the knowledge she had about his close comrade Luke Skywalker painted the picture of someone who had done exactly that to me.

But I guess we all interpreted these films differently

My point with those videos is'nt how many views they have, it's the fact that they exist at all; ST hatred, like PT hatred before it, is fashionable and in vogue.

Within the context of the film's storyline she abandoned her desire to kill him when she started trying to talk to him - and she stopped actively attempting to kill him well before that.

She would have attacked him, obviously, but there's a difference between attacking someone and possibly killing themselves in battle and killing them in cold blood while their out cold; Rey at this point is Jedi - or rather, she sees herself as a Jedi in the making and adhers to their beliefs system - and one of the core beliefs of the Jedi is that they don't kill defenseless foes.

Given how often the francise has drilled that particuler ethos into my head I was'nt the least bit suprised she did'nt kill him - heck, until peaple started complaining about it here it never once occured to me that peaple would take issue with that scene (or rather, the lack of scene).

 

I'm suggesting their lack of issue with the film was the problem.

The port was shielded it's just that proton torpedoes can penetrate that shield. It still required an insanely precise shot that some questioned if was even possible.

But his smuggling stuff is legendary in it's own right, not obscure. He's shocked and offended that Obi-Wan and Luke haven't heard of it already in ANH before he even does any Rebel stuff.

But that wasn't true for TFA is my only point. Something changed.

She stopped trying to kill him because her first attempt didn't work so I don't really see your point there. And the whole thing is she thought he could be changed and then he got that chance and he said "nah I don't wanna" so her previous thought process doesn't account for much anymore.

The point isn't necessarily that she should have killed him in his sleep, the point is that she should have been tempted to do so. I don't super buy that she knows all that much about the specifics of the Jedi code at this point because Luke didn't teach her squat, but in any case having ideals and living up to them are two entirely different things. I mean she goes straight to the dark side when Luke specifically tells her not to. That's not someone who perfectly follows the Jedi path because they googled it in their free time once before.

 

It's not just about whether she would kill him or not, either. It's about how she feels about that choice. Does she tenderly tossle his hair and tell him that she believes the force has something in store for him? Does she look at him with fury yet still walk away? Does she sit up, smile, and say, woo hoo I like this as she runs from the room?

That kind of information is pivotal to understanding Rey. It gives us vital insight into our protagonist's feelings about the events that just took place, as well as insight into where she is on her hero's journey.

 

Well, I understood fine without that information, so it does'nt seem that pivotal from were I'm sitting

Well yes, you would suggest that, becuase you don't like the movie

The port was ray shielded, meaning it was defended agianst energy weapons and radiation (which means it may not have actually even been shield for defense), but not particle shielded

That does'nt mean his smuggling career was legendary, it just means he has an ego - heck, just off the top of my head I can't recall anything saying Han's a legendary smuggler, just a successful smuggler.

I mean, I should certainly hope he was'nt a legendary smuggler.

No, it was. It really was. Heck, it was fashionable to hate on TFA before it even came out.

What alternate reality are you posting from?

She's not going to sudden do a 360 in her character devolopment during the last twenty minates of the film.

Maybe that would make sense for you if that happened in the film, but it would'nt make a lick of sense to me. It think it was about as stupid as...well, about as stupid as you think it was to not have the scene were talking about in the film, actually.

She was. That's in the novel.

The difference between us is that you think that information should have been in the film and I view it as extraneous between-the-scenes fluff that's not really relevent to the film itself. I don't need to get the inner thoughts of all the characters and see what happens offscreen to enjoy the action, fun and lightsaber battles, but maybe that's just me.

 

She carries herself as one, however, and acts - or tries to act - accordingly.

She does'nt need to have learned this particuler bit of Jedi ethoes from Luke.

Rey is'nt Luke.

That's a fair point, but Rey already got over wanting to murder him earlier in the film. I get that you guys wanted the movie to explain what happened between the scenes to you, but I just don't think it was nessesery.

TLJ does'nt say Rey has a natural inclination to the dark; she got drawn in by a powerful Dark Side nexus becuase she did'nt know any better, and Luke got triggered becuase he was reminded of Kylo. Every Jedi in training is probobly equally as susceptible to the pull of the Dark Side as Rey was (Luke himself certainly was in ESB) and a normal, non-traumitized master would'nt be alarmed by that.

Honest question, but what should I face something I don't think is a thing?

I think the movie was super interested in her and did a great job with the character, why should I "face" somethying I don't believe is true?

No offense, but it sounds less like TLJ was uninterested in Rey as a character and more like your upset that they did'nt dipict that character in the way that you personally wanted her dipicted.

I can sympathize, as TROS did'nt dipict Kylo the way that I wanted it do, but that does'nt mean either film was "wrong" to take the path they did; Johnson's vision for Rey is equally as valid as yours or anyone elses, to think anything else smacks of - no offense - entitlement to me.

Ironicly when you say "bland, tasteless heroine" I think of Rey in TFA, not TLJ

Just becuase TFA recived better reviews overall then TLJ and was more to your personal satisfication as a film does'nt mean TLJ was a bad movie or that TFA is any better or worse then it is.

I thought it was a great film, why should I care that it was'nt allegedly greeted as well (frankly I think that, review sites aside, both were greated more or less the same - the general audience thought they were pretty good, plenty of fans loved them, some peaple did'nt like them and a particulerly vocal minority of very angry and offended "fans" threw fits over how "terrible" they were)

 

But did you really understand or did you simply not care/imagine an explanation that worked for you?

Correct lol, but I’m far from the only one. (Which again, doesn’t automatically make me right but does matter to Disney from a pocketbook perspective)

But the point is it’s not like it’s a giant hole that anyone can walk up to and easily destroy the station. You have to hit a small target at precisely a 90 degree angle with a specific weapon. It’s very easy for me to believe a tiny weakness like that slipped through the review process. Like, NASA once lost a million dollar probe because there was a mixup in the units of measurement being used from one team to another. These things happen.

I’m clearly missing something about the picture there but the Kessel Run achievement is definitely supposed to be a big deal that other people would have heard about. I don’t think Solo handled the depiction of it very well either so I don’t milk trust the other canon sources surrounding it either atm.

As someone who thought TFA was “just ok” not loving it was definitely a minority opinion. Just ask some of the people around here who actually hated it from the beginning. In my experience they’re more than happy to give everyone a “see I told you so” after TLJ because they got mocked and shunned for anti-ST sentiment after the first movie. Did I mention TFA smashed box office records and is still Top 5 all time in that regard? Trust me it had a much better reception than TLJ.

Being more open to Kylo isn’t something I would call “character development” for Rey, it’s more like falling for a ruse for some questionable reasons. Once she’s revealed to have made a mistake then yes if course I would expect her to revert back to her previous position. Whether doing a “360” like this is a good use of the narrative for the second movie of a trilogy is another matter but as always I didn’t write it this way so don’t blame me.

I don’t think there’s much fun and action in TLJ so there’s nothing to distract me from this stuff in the first place. But besides that I don’t see how this could be considered “fluff” in the first place. I know that’s the root of the disagreement but that’s like if they just completely removed all of Anakin’s stuff with Padmé throughout AOTC because we don’t need his “inner thoughts” and then they randomly got married at the end. How can the main character’s thought process not matter to the film?? Why are we even watching then?

 

TFA and TLJ`s respective opening weekend weren`t too far apart, their respective legs however differed very much. If they had roughly the same reception in general, the divide wouldn`t have been as stark as it was. Their receptions were wildly different when each came out.

 

Luke trying to recruit Vader? Huh? He was trying to save his soul. The Rebels would never have accepted Vader.

 

Yes, Luke was trying to save his father’s soul; not recruit his father. He actually only left the Endor moon and his friends though because he knew that he was endangering the mission, as Vader could sense where Luke was. By going to try to save his father’s soul, Luke also provided some distraction for a while, which gave Han, Leia, Lando and everyone else a chance to get ready to take down the shield and destroy the Death Star. Luke never expected to return alive. “ Soon I will be dead and you with me,” he told the Emperor. Luke expected his friends to destroy the Death Star with Vader, Palpatine, and himself aboard. He certainly wasn’t there to “ recruit “ his father to the rebel side. Who In the rebellion would ever have trusted Vader???

 

The only thing I’ll add about Rey’s hope for Kylo’s redemption is that it’s plausible Rey assumed he would be accepted by the Resistance because of Leia. If she welcomed him with open arms, I think the rest of the Resistance would be more willing to, the same way they all warmed up to Holdo once Leia awoke from her coma and stopped Poe and his crew from staging a mutiny against Holdo. I realize Holdo and Kylo are VERY different characters, but my point is that the Resistance seems to have an enormous amount of respect for Leia, and the only way I can see them ever accepting Ben after everything he did as Kylo would be because of Leia.

Otherwise, like my dad said after watching The Rise of Skywalker with me, Ben never could’ve lived because Rey’s friends would never be able to accept him or forgive him for his past actions, even if Rey forgave him. As much as I would’ve loved for him to survive in The Rise of Skywalker, they would’ve REALLY needed to find a way to believably make the other characters feel okay with him coming to their side after everything he did, and personally, I don’t think that JJ could’ve successfully done that if he tried to pull it off in The Rise of Skywalker.