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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Rey Skywalker/Daisy Ridley Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    I actually liked Rey Palpatine because after TFA I think it was too late to do Rey Nobody properly (It could be Rey Nobody We've Heard of Before, but we would have to be Somebody by the end of the ST), and Palpatine made the most sense to have "lost" a Force Sensitive child/grandchild without any of our heroes knowing.

    @Lobot's Wig I think the PT is the wrong place to put the blame for the Force not being "democratic". There were some hints in ESB but definitely ROTJ established already that some people were more prone to Force powers than others, and that it could be genetically inherited.
     
  2. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2020
    It did, but it still did so in a more abstract way in my opinion. It wasn't too overly specific. "The Force is strong in my family" for me is still a rather mythical way to describe its prominence among the Skywalkers by not explaining why. It was still just this side of vague to remain mysterious and accessible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  3. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I'm torn on the dramatic efficacy of "Force Sensitivity" limiting who can be a Jedi or Sith, as I am with most "magic knight" characters. Sometimes I like the idea that *anyone* can become that kind of character, other times I like the way that the lack of that universal capacity allows others to pursue equal might outside that paradigm.

    But I also don't think it really applied to Rey all that much in any of the films: TFA established her as being at least surprisingly powerful and intuitive with the Force, and TLJ and TROS explicitly make her power level comparable only to the Skywalkers and Palpatine. Arguably, her problem was that she wasn't truly a "democratization of the Force" at all because of her power level and because of the previous context around her - Anakin emerging from the space boonies from a slave mother already covers the "Great Power from Unexpected Places," and the difference between his "virgin birth" and "deadbeat parents" just isn't as significant when the rest of the variables align almost exactly.

    It's not a coincidence that I think Finn may have offered a greater argument along that line of "democratization of the Force" simply because of how subtle the hints at the Force are in his story - subtle enough its debated if they existed there at all.:p

    With Rey, once it was clear we were supposed to think of her as significantly above average even as a neophyte, she needed a backstory to matter to the overall story - from an amnesiac former student of Luke's, to his daughter, to any other legacy she was a part of. The dramatic tradeoff from not having the earliest lessons to learn means we needed something of substance to make up the difference.

    And I really don't think it's a coincidence so many people, even in LFL, treated Kylo radically different because of his parentage; I'd argue that alone almost requires Rey to have an equally engaging backstory, and in no way is "it doesn't really matter" a good answer - hell, TLJ arguably proved that with how little her story actually focused on *her.* Kylo had both the more interesting family story, and the more interesting training background... and Kylo and Luke got the climax while Rey was playing Uber driver with Chewie.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  4. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    This isn't really the thread to get into a debate on the topic, but suffice it to say once Leia said "a power I could never have" and Luke's answer wasn't "anybody could learn this power" but "That's only because you think you're not my sister" I feel like that cat was already out of the bag. Also, outside of their existence I don't think midichlorians were discussed in any real depth in the PT either. Those are just my views on the subject. (Also I think it's worth noting that it's not like there's such thing as a person who doesn't have any midichlorians).
     
  5. wobbits

    wobbits Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    I must definitely be the oddball out because I keep seeing people say the OT presented the idea that everyone could use the force. I never got that impression from any of the OT films. Yes, Yoda did say that it "surrounds and binds us all" but random characters are never shown at any time to be just walking around using the force. None of the patrons in the bar in Mos Eisley are floating their empty glasses to the bar for refills, better yet why didn't the bartender just use the force to prevent the droids from entering, why don't the Stormtroopers use it to better their aim?

    Luke literally says "I want to LEARN the ways of the force and become a Jedi like my father." To me the OT is clear that there's more to it than just being a resident of the GFFA.
     
  6. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2020
    Not everybody in the world is religious. Or a martial arts expert. But they can be if they want to be
     
  7. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I think everyone *can* use the Force (the Force is basically a metaphor for the deeper mysteries of life) but not everyone has the disposition and/or sensitivity to commit to it. And some rationalists , like the younger Han, simply think all the talk of the Force is a bunch of hooey. I think your heart being in it is a minimum pre-requisite for any conscious efforts to tap into it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. wobbits

    wobbits Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    BBM. I just don't inject those types of ideas/interpretations into the concept when that's literally not shown or stated anywhere in film.
     
  9. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2020
    It is. Luke couldn’t raise the X-Wing from the swamp with the Force because he didn’t really believe it, which led to a half-hearted try.
     
  10. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    If all it took was heart there would be trillions more force users around.

    Heart and faith is necessary when ya got it and want to use it. But it doesn’t come first.
     
  11. wobbits

    wobbits Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    To me having heart means you have compassion, empathy not that you have self confidence.

    "Having heart" still doesn't answer the question then of if anyone can use the force why aren't random yahoos in the films then being shown to use it? Mon Mothma had heart, why didn't she just use the force to get the death star plans herself? Why didn't Lando do a Jedi Mind trick on Chewie to let him go after Han was taken away?

    Furthermore, if the ST is so much better than the OT then why don't any of these films show random people using it? No one used it to help during the fight on Takodana? Paige couldn't use it to save herself? Rose couldn't have used a Jedi Mind trick instead of tasing Finn? Shouldn't JJ/RJ been held to that interpretation of the force?
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  12. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2020
    The sayings “half-hearted” or “heart not in it” have nothing to do with compassion, they are idioms to describe interest or enthusiasm for something.

    Why isn’t everybody religious in the world? If God helps some people, why don’t we all turn to him and draw on his apparent divine power and influence?

    My opinion is that the Original Trilogy, especially A New Hope, sold the idea that the Force exists in the Star Wars Galaxy and was available to anybody who truly believed in it and took the time to learn about it and train with it to become an expert with it.
     
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  13. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Luke failing to lift the xwing out of the swamp shows us that faith in the force, and yourself, is crucial for mastering the force. That even a strong in my family force user is nothing without faith.

    But if faith or heart or confidence is all it took, then there would be trillions of random force users in the galaxy.

    I see it as
    • Baseline physiology - Midis, if you want to go that route, or something mystical about someone's being and their inherent powerful connection to the Force/The Whills. (Anakin's chosen one, high midi count, wanting power to do whatever he watned)
    • Faith in yourself and the force. (Luke having faith in himself and his father, and that the dark side is not a destiny)
    • Training and learning for decades if not a life time. (Luke passing on what he's learned to a new generation and Ben Solo continuing the journey)
    Take out any one of the three, and the other's are useless. And oddly enough, each trilogy almost - just almost - represents this. Or could have.

    And I would bet that there are truly millions of FS people out there, but not sensitive enough to be able to really do anything with it, even if they had all the faith in the galaxy. People who might hear things, at random times, or what not. Have intuition. But in order to master it, or have it be an ally, that takes something more special.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  14. wobbits

    wobbits Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    That's fine, it's your opinion. Where was I attempting to state otherwise? I simply shared that I don't agree that the OT films presented that same idea to me regarding the force. You jumped on my conversation with someone else not the other way around.

    @DarkGingerJedi faith in the force makes more sense to me than have heart or your heart being in it. Ones heart not being in something sounds like a lack of motivation. Which, then begs, if one were motivated enough to learn the force does that necessarily mean they'd be able to use it? I never thought Lucas was presenting that idea either.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
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  15. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2020
    Relax sister, it’s just a friendly discussion. Nobody is accusing you of attempting anything.

    Just going back to the Force, before the Prequel explanation, I liked this explanation from George...

     
  16. wobbits

    wobbits Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    :rolleyes:

    Oh well with that quote then I guess we can stop crediting the ST for the idea.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  17. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Wow. I didn’t expect this many posts after mine in such a short time! I’ll just say that for my part, I 100% agree that “having your heart in it” is not sufficient and didn’t mean to suggest that it was. That’s why I used term “minimum pre-requisite”.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    I've always seen Force Sensitivity to be something akin to athleticism. An average Joe off the streets can put a ball into a basket, or kick a ball into a net, or run around an oval, etc. Amongst those things there will be some that come more naturally than others and all of them can improved with practice and dedication. But the fact of the matter is there is no amount of coaching or hard work that would turn me into Michael Phelps or Usain Bolt. There's a reason a 6 foot tall NBA player is considered to be short. I don't know if it was their intention or not, but I've always seen Chirrut as a perfect example of what a "non Force Sensitive" (it's a bit of a misnomer since everyone has a connection to the Force, it's just a matter of the degree) person who committed to training would look like.
     
  19. dolphin

    dolphin Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 1999
    Agreed. The OT solidifies that fact with the introduction of genetic indicators (midichlorians). Rey was simply a child of nobodies gifted at birth with a high midi count. (If the granddaughter of Palpy reveal was a lie)
     
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  20. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    In TROS, Rey says to Kylo: "You could have killed me. Why didn't you?" - and I can't help but think "He should be asking her that question".
     
  21. alwayslurking

    alwayslurking Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2019
    "I've seen this raw strength only once before. It didn't scare me enough then. It does now." I don't think Luke is talking about Rey and Kylo both having super duper faith here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  22. FromDromundKaasWithLove

    FromDromundKaasWithLove Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2020
    According to Sarah Wilson, Daisy Ridley claimed that during both the Force Awakens and the Last Jedi, she was "literally" told that Rey came from nowhere.
    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
  24. Martin Hoffmann

    Martin Hoffmann Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2020
    Why shouldn't Daisy Ridley make a comeback as Rey? And why should Disney stop using the main sequel characters like Rey?

    I think that in a few years there will be a new movie or a new series with Rey after TROS.
     
  25. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Fiendish Fanfic & SWTV Manager, Interim Tech Admin star 6 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    The idea of Rey coming from "nowhere" is silly to me being that everyone comes from somewhere. Even if they just wanted to make her come from Jakku and nothing else, that's fine, but don't say nowhere. Say "Jakku" and develop what it means to be from Jakku.

    And if the idea from the start was to have Rey not be related to any prominent bloodline/family, just introduce her as the galaxy far far away equivalent of Rey Smith rather than building up the mystery of her identity in TFA.

    The ST with Rey's identity is like a murder mystery trilogy where in the first book we get told a murder happened and get some clues and likely red herrings. Then in the second book we are told that no murder actually took place, there was no mystery in the first place, and we were a bunch of fools if we believed there had been a murder. Then in book three we were told that there had in fact been a murder after all and we were given a very sloppy and poorly developed solution to it. Well, Agatha Christie that wouldn't be.

    I'm fine with Rey not being a Skywalker or a Solo or whatever, but I one hunded percent believe the ST should've been forthright about that from the outset if that was the plan.

    That being said, I suspect there was no plan about this and that was the core problem. A lack of planning and effective collaboration hampered the ST and the development of Rey's character. It's a shame, but there it is.