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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Rey Skywalker/Daisy Ridley Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. Jo Lucas

    Jo Lucas Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Are people still mad because a character rejected her evil bloodline and decided to adopt the last name of a group of people who cared for her?
     
  2. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    I was never mad about it. but its still kinda dumb. sadly though she is official Rey Skywalker now. there is no changing it. it just doesn't seem convincing for this character to go by that name. she can't ever feel like the next step to this heritage. but it is what it is.
     
  3. Jo Lucas

    Jo Lucas Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Why isn't it convincing? Both her masters had that last name. It's either that or be called Palpatine, and nobody wants to be called Palpatine.
     
  4. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Well no Leia was Organa. she didn't have the surname Skywalker. and its not convincing because she isn't a real Skywalker. we have 3 main hero skywalkers now. Anakin Skywalker, Luke Skywalker & Rey Skywalker. all interesting names... but the last one works only if you switch your brain off first and not remember she just decided to take the name because why not?

    They won't retcon that now. so she is probably gonna be Rey Skywalker for good now. all they can really do is just at some point go back to her and give her more adventures with that name and try to get people to look past it.

    And i know there are many who feel she is owned the name because Skywalker stands for good and whatever. but thats BS. its family name. Anakin wasn't called Skywalker because he was the Chosen one. it was his surname. and the same Skywalker turned into Darth Vader so when did Skywalker become a name that stands for good?
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  5. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    It’s not that idea that I think upsets people, as much as that’s roughly the same story Luke had in the OT (minus the name part, but arguably more so the immediate legacy element), so it’s neither original nor very satisfying for either her or for the family.
    Well...

    ...Luke wasn’t actually her master, so that’s a no go, and as pointed out elsewhere, Leia was actually called Organa for pretty much her entire life.

    And, well...
    This is kind of the heart of the comparison issue; the only fundamental difference between Rey and Luke’s situations is that Palpatine was inconsiderate enough to still use his birth last name when public ally being evil, while Vader and Kylo both use pseudonyms publicly.

    *If* names and family legacy are to matter, than the only really concrete difference between the value of the names Palpatine and Skywalker is that there’s more individuals in the Skywalker family well known... including two mass murdering monsters, and one who even acted as Palpatine’s equivalent for a time with command of the First Order.

    The legacy, distinct from the name, is a heavy weight in both cases... but arguably more dramatically weighty in regards to the Skywalker because they’re the main characters. It’s not a name symbolizing heroism, but either just a name for a family, or a name that symbolizes a similar capacity for evil and good to the Palpatines.

    Ultimately, Rey taking the name is clearly a marketing move caused by fear of killing off the Skywalker than anything else.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  6. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Yeah I wouldn't say I'm mad about it in the "how dare you stand where he stood" sort of way, it just doesn't really make much sense. Rey and Luke didn't have much of relationship at all, and what time they did share together was antagonistic more often than not. There's no in-universe reason for her to take the name Skywalker over Solo or Organa, it's entirely for marketing reasons. That whole scene sticks out like a sore thumb because it doesn't flow from the rest of the story at all. It just screams "hey just because we destroyed the Skywalker family doesn't mean we're done milking the Skywalker brand name, don't you worry". I mean, the very film itself is already an example of that because "The Rise of Skywalker" is a completely meaningless title in terms of what actually happens. It's purely a marketing ploy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  7. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I thought of Rey changing her last name to Skywalker as her taking honor in carrying the torch that Luke and Leia passed on to her.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  8. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Except Luke didn’t actually do much passing, more like last second recognizing, and Leia goes by Organa or Solo.

    I’ll admit, part of the issue is that, speaking metaphorically, it feels like “Organa” makes a hell of a lot more sense story wise (it even comes with a precedent of adoption!) than Skywalker, especially given the dark side of the Skywalker name.

    Of course, the more pressing issue is that, really, the actual passing of the torch is found off screen with Leia, because TLJ wasted the opportunity with Luke, and no one wants to recall Rey and Han’s relationship because it might bring up issues with the Reylo story segment again.
     
  9. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Luke encouraged Rey to face Palpatine and his stunt on Crait inspired hope in the citizenship which enabled them to band together when Lando gave the signal. Leia’s powers are from her Skywalker lineage, not her Organa upbringing, so it would make sense to me for Rey to honor the Jedi or whatever Force Sensitives are called moving forward, by taking that name.

    I could be wrong, but it feels like the original plan for IX was going to be very Leia-centric and involve much more of her passing the torch to Rey. I think rewriting that story without Carrie’s involvement was likely one of the issues, and it seems a bit overstepping to pin it on Luke’s development in TLJ. I think Luke overtly training Rey would have been fine, but a little been there/done that with Yoda training him. I liked the variation.
     
  10. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    If it works for you then that's great but to me it seems like a massive to stretch to justify something as major as taking someone else's last name as your own with a two minute pep talk they gave you one time. Same with honoring Leia not as her own person but as the biological daughter of Anakin, even though he tortured her the only time they met. Rey's actions on this matter do not match up with typical human behaviour.
     
  11. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2001
    Unfortunately, Rey’s actions about a LOT of matters in the ST, especially in TLJ, “ do not match up with typical human behavior”.

    And the filmmakers could have saved themselves a lot of problems by just making Rey a BLOOD Skywalker instead of having her just steal the name.
     
  12. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Oh yeah. Horribly angry and mad. :mad: Her bloodline makes my blood boil. Don’t even get me started in adopting last names. Could you imagine how dumb it would have been if Han or Luke or Leia just made up a last name... Thou I guess Leia’s last name is Oragana.... Wait a minute. Her last name is really Skywalker and she didn’t use that name. So Leia adopted the last...

    Oh no.

    I feel faint. [face_skull] Seeing double. :-B Does not compute. [face_sick] Heart pounding. [face_love] Sounded like a rubber band snapped in my head. 8-}

    Curse you Rain Johnstan.
     
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  13. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    [face_whistling]
     
  14. RetropME

    RetropME Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2017
    You aren't wrong but people who worked on TROS, to include the editor and the co-writer, have out-right stated that killing Luke in TLJ was a mistake that ultimately hindered the story they wanted to tell. People are free to like or dislike TLJ but the fact remains that it was ultimately detrimental to the story that JJ started in TFA and subsequently finished in TROS.

    The obvious reasoning is that Leia was to have a major role in Episode IX and Luke's film story combined with Carrie's passing made it difficult to have a proper mentor for Rey and that is something easily seen in the films. The other aspect, however, is that the story of Rey's lineage did NOT play out as intended. We know this from numerous hints and interviews and while we may never know that whole story, we do know that A) J.J. Abrams had different ideas before TLJ was made and B) Rey is called Rey Skywalker because that is ultimately who J.J. Abrams wanted her to be. J.J. Wrote TFA and was the primary person responsible for Rey's story. J.J. has never publicly stated who Rey's parents were prior to TLJ but it is know that it changed. J.J. ultimately made Rey a Skywalker, albeit through very convoluted means.
     
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  15. wobbits

    wobbits Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Why does she get to undermine Anakin's sacrifice and then take his last name too? They undid his defeat of Palps and gave it to her, while having Anakin's ghost have to help her do it. :rolleyes:

    IMO Luke and Leia were not presented and shown as mentors with which she had a significant enough bond for me to believe it's a natural progression for her to just claim their last name. If they didn't like the Palpatine last name, they should have left her a nobody.
     
  16. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    To me he didn't make her a Skywalker or at least as much of one as I would be if I just declared my last name to now be Skywalker. Which is zero.

    If they were honest, they would be calling her "Rey Brand Name".
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  17. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    is there a link to them stating such? JJ once said in an interview that the only choice he wished Rian hadn’t made was killing off Phasma, and I kind of agree with him. I’ve never seen anything about the writers/editors of TROS saying Luke’s death was a mistake.

    Abrams went into TFA believing it would be the only one he would create and left the rest of the trilogy in the hands of others. If he wanted Rey to be a blood Skywalker, he should have either revealed it in that movie or scrapped the idea. He does not have ownership of the larger story and thus did not have the right to determine where it ended up until he was emergency-hired for TROS.
     
  18. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    But the more pertinent question is “Does Rey benefit from that decision?”

    While I know you and others find her story in TLJ either adequate or wonderfully substantial when you view it, I think there’s a much greater argument to make that depriving Rey of a true passing of the torch story from Luke, from becoming part of his legacy in an indisputable fashion, or from fleshing out where she gets her education on the ethical philosophies of the Force (far more important dramatically than giving her “magic training”), and making her more of a bystander to his story horrifically damaged her story and appeal going forward.

    “Been there, done that” is a dubious weakness to visualize, considering Luke isn’t Yoda and Rey isn’t Luke, though more pertinently, TLJ simply had a lack of true substance to Rey story - there’s a reason you’re highly philosophical interpretation of her arc in TLJ is a rare one not shared even by most TLJ fans. Flat out, even a completely conventional training storyline would have been fitted Rey more than what she got in TLJ - and exponentially more if there were unique variations, perspectives, and character chemistry compared to either the conventional concept or Johnson’s rather empty void of storytelling there.

    TLJ simply isn’t a firm, strong, or appealing film for Rey - except in general for people who already find Kylo an engaging character in non-antagonistic manner. Even your firmer ethical POV of the story still relies on offering the character an extra bit of grace compared to Hux or Snoke, and that simply isn’t the dramatically intuitive direction after TFA - and dramatically intuitive storytelling should always be *some* part of story construction.
    I think the answer is still pretty obvious: Rey Random will be swallowed up and ignored in “Skywalkers vs Palpatine II: Force Lightning Boogaloo.”

    It was either undermine the previous victory and give it to Rey... or undermine the previous victory and give it wholly to Ben.

    And Ben Solo ain’t worth the sand Anakin picked out of his hair.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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  19. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I think Rey’s journey benefits from the decision because disappointment is a major obstacle she has to overcome in order to find her place in the fight. In TFA, she’s all metaphorically swept off her feet at the mention of Luke Skywalker and the possibility that the stories she’s heard just might be true. Meeting Luke and being disappointed in the real person brings her down to Earth. (Or to Jakku or to Achto or whatever planet is appropriate). Discovering that she can’t Anakin-ize Kylo is also sobering. As a character, her expectations are set straight and she learns that just because she’s been given the same powers as this legend, doesn’t mean she has to jump straight to grand feats.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  20. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    The idea of Rey taking her mentors last names as an homage to them is a very beautiful and lovely idea. The way the ST did it felt cheap, though. I have nothing against the idea of Rey Skywalker (blood or not), but it just was not presented well at all.
     
  21. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Rey is already intimately familiar with disappointment, and she really shouldn’t be so pathetically listless in what “her place is.”

    She’s not some “Becky” at college getting inspiration to write her own version of “Eat, Pray, Love.”

    She’s from a life somewhere between Aladdin’s in Agrabah and Imperator Furiosa in Mad Max’s wasteland.

    Self discovery is a “first world problem” for someone who doesn’t have practical immediate problems, severe traumatic long term problems, or horrifying existential threats. Almost everything Rey’s known in her life has been an immediate problem - how do I eat today, how do I avoid being beaten by the local thugs?, etc. Her larger, less immediate and long term problems are heartbreaking - why is there no one to care for me, grant me sanctuary, love me as their own? etc. and her brand new existential threat is pretty damn huge and obvious: now that I have a family, how do I keep them save from the mass murdering demon determined to hunt them down and possibly violate me again? Etc.

    It’s a trashy and boring-as-hell storyline for someone who’s in some ways too mature for that kind of listless naivety and passivity, but in other ways too immature for the kind of spiritual realization that kind f arc ostensibly could represent. It wants to infantilize her on basic survival principles and judgement, but (maybe, since I kind of think this idea is much more your thing than something Johnson actually put in the film,) have her gain sage-like wisdom by the end of it.

    She really, really should have been recognized as someone for whom the whole “Don’t jump straight to murderous vengeance against the hell spawn tormenting you, okay?” lesson was far more applicable rather than learning “Sometimes in life, older people can let you down and bad boys will break your heart, okay?” lesson Johnson stuck her with.

    Because to be blunt, she really should have much more concrete reasoning for not regarding Kylo as hellspawn that needs to die than to learn some lessons she already knows and learn some others she needs to live a bit longer for at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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  22. LedReader

    LedReader Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2019
    Rey-the untrained Force Sensitive who immediately taps into the Dark Side when it can offer her something and feels no remorse about it, and Kylo-the potentially redeemable Bad Guy who has committed grave sins against her personally, is a conflict that really should have written itself. It's hard to fathom how they looked at the pieces they had to work with and decided to put them together in the way that they ultimately did.
     
  23. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I think we shouldn’t treat lightly the fact that the suddenness of her new Force abilities are the major curveball in her desire to protect her new found family. It seems that a lot of arguments keep ignoring this central, unavoidable situation exemplified in the title of episode 7. Her problem is that she has no idea how to handle them, what to use them for. If anything she has an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and is trying to carry way too much on shoulders because of this discovery.

    To me, her new found family that she was missing from the kind of life she lead previously was Finn and Han. The Resistance, which neither Finn nor Han were active in when Rey parted them, only became family to her after she discovered her powers, because now she realized she had much more to offer them. TLJ is her trying to discover what that much more is.
     
  24. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Exactly. It also follows in the idea of Kylo being her foil, and her being an inversion of the previous Skywalker characters.

    Luke, Anakin, and Ben were all raised (at least initially) by loving and present parents before they encountered/enrolled in the Jedi, and face the issue of being “too old,” and in the case of Anakin and Luke, too attached to their friends and family. Rey? Rey’s the one who was abandoned and left to her own devices to survive on a harsh, unforgiving world, crying herself to sleep at night from sheer loneliness and hunger, and has only just gotten friends and family in time for them to be brutally slaughtered and tortured by the same beast who violated her.

    She should arguably be the character most unflinchingly aggressive and wrathful towards her enemy, and toughened and traumatized enough to criticize and even outright discard Jedi wisdom about emotions and defense - and all perfectly countered by Kylo being a self-doubting and brainwashed madman who clearly doesn’t have the same level of wrath that his forebears had, having to make do with sadism and grim sociopathy.

    The big thing is she can’t be treated like she should just be a hipster version of Luke - because that’s a boring concept in and of itself, and rather lightweight considering the story around her. Of course, I think that's partially because TLJ is a very surface-level hipster film itself - Luke, Kylo, and Rey all come off more as disenchanted college students consumed by their own petty little problems while billions die, and even the other characters seem to quickly shrug off the weight of the deaths and chaos around them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
  25. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    A lot of these objections I simply can’t respond to without taking a course in psychology


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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