ST Rey Skywalker/Daisy Ridley Discussion Thread

@godisawesome definitely goes into a lot more detail and analysis, but to me it's as simple as Kylo deeply hurt her so she should want to hurt him back. That's basic human nature and is exactly what happens between Anakin and both Count Dooku as well as the Tuskens. The difference is that Anakin has years of Jedi training that tells him what he is doing is wrong and dangerous. Rey's never even heard of the Dark Side before and so when it offers her something she wants she doesn't hesitate to accept its "help". That's the thing about the Dark Side, it's seductive. Hurting Kylo should be something she wants and that the Dark Side can give her the power to do. Learning to overcome that temptation is a perfect premise for a story, especially if Kylo is ultimately meant to be redeemable because she can learn the value in solving problems in ways other than violence. It provides both of them with avenues for personal growth in a way that drives the larger plot alongside them.

 

If I thought the value of a drama lied in the quantity of people who respond to it such that the more people are compelled or moved by a telling, the better the telling is, I might consider psychological realism an important factor. However, I don’t think that. I think the value of drama lies in communication on a subconscious level between the creator and the individual, and in the case of a theatrically-told story, the live audience. So if we had an expert on psychology come on this board and analyze Rey’s behavior, it wouldn’t make a single bit of difference, to me, towards crediting or discrediting the way her character is written.


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I'm not really following how the creator and an individual can communicate on a subconscious level at the same time as that individual is not compelled or moved by the story the creator is telling.

 

Ah, that I can understand. But there comes a point where things are glaring enough that after-viewing analysis is not necessary to notice them. There is some level of during-viewing analysis that exists and it can definitely affect my experience of the film in the moment. The phrase "takes me out of the film" comes to mind.

 

Agreed. This did not happen to me during TLJ.

Don’t think that I’m dismissing the importance and utility of dramatic analysis. I use it in my work all the time. I know that our brains operate during experiences and react accordingly. But I see them as operating in service of the subjective, rather than the objective. When I’m analyzing a piece for work, I start with the undramatic, literal objective elements (“he’s sipping a cup of coffee”) and progress to the interpretive (“he’s contemplating murder”). Someone else might think he’s already set on murder when he’s sipping the coffee and is contemplating his alibi, while someone else might think he’s just trying to put his mind at ease with coffee. All of these interpretations are valid if they are honest impressions, even if they contradict each other. So the end of dramatic analysis is a knowledge of where one stands with a piece as an individual, rather then where anyone should stand with it objectively. I suggest that academic endeavors with story analysis would best be directed towards encouraging the individual to analyze their own POV with regard to a piece, so they might substantiate it and draw something of value from it.

As for Rey’s presence in the ST—to me, she was a stand in for the audience’s POV. Usually that’s the spot a protagonist fills. That’s why I’m rather unconcerned about how she knew about Anakin’s return and all the events of the OT, for example. It didn’t really matter, because she is my avatar through which I view this movie, so if I’m familiar with the history, I’m fine with her being familiar as well. I agree that TLJ wasn’t focused on her, but it was focused on what she was focused on and that’s why it worked for me.

 

Rey is a character who i guess is meant to be as you say the POV for the audience and basically thrown into the Skywalker story, while all the skywalker family-related stuff happens around her. she gets to play with all the Skywalker things like the Falcon and Saber like a fan wishes they could. but in the end the family-related stuff was actually far more interesting and filled with more depth because of the history.

They wanted their cake and eat it, and i ain't sure it was possible to make it work as well as they thought it would.

 

I would say TFA is more about Rey’s introduction to the reality of the Force whereas the following two were about her attempts to use it well for her néw family. That’s why she gives in to Palpatine after he threatens her “new family” until she senses Ben through the Force. TFA sets up Rey’s desire for family and introduces the problem of her new powers. TLJ and TROS are her journey of deciding the best way to use them to help her new family.

I think a difference with me is that whereas I do think rising above hatred in a mark of spiritual progress, I don’t think the desire to rise above it necessarily is. I’ve had plenty of moments where I’ve criticized myself for wishing ill on someone who’s hurt me or someone I love, even though I still wished ill on them regardless of not wanting to. An argument could be made that Rey wished ill on Kylo in TLJ, but was in denial of that because of what the prospect of his turn could mean.

 

I think there was abit of it there. Which is probably one of the reasons why they desired Rey to be a nobody. and i have always been puzzled as to what the point was of making her a nobody was. and the only thing i can think of is that they wanted her to be what Luke was when people watched him for the first time in 1977 and at that time he was a nobody. and alot of people seem to think the message behind Luke was that he was just an everyday farm boy living on a dire planet who goes off and becoming the hero. basically the idea that anyone can be a hero. which only really makes sense as a message if you want it to connect with the audience in a personal way.

I mean if they had their way Rey would be someone in the ST who inherits all of the previous movies stuff like the falcon and the skywalker saber... but would still be a random.

And i do think they thought Rey would stand out more than the Skywalkers because of the message. but i think the heritage of the Skywalkers ended up being more important then they expected.

 

J.J. has not said so publicly. Chris Terrio (co-writer of TROS) and Maryann Brandon (Editor of TFA and TROS) have both said it in separate interviews that were conducted after TROS was released. I don't have a link off-hand but it was explicitly stated by both of them that killing Luke in TFA was a mistake and Terrio alluded to the fact that it hindered the story moving forward into TROS.

 

Fascinating. I don’t quite agree with them on that point in principle, but if anyone has links to either of them saying this, it would probably be an interesting perspective to read.


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Seems like another creativity issue. These writers complain over and over again how hard it was writing the ST.

Even though I hated that Luke died in TLJ, there are options for the next episode to still have him part of the story, outside of just showing up as a Ghost on Ahch-to to give Rey a 2 minute pep talk. Your last movie literally showed he could project himself as something he wasn't, from across the galaxy. Who knows what kind of powers he could have as one with the Force. Luke could have started showing up to random nobody force users and told them "You will go to Ahch-to. There you will find Rey Palpatine, the granddaughter of Emperor Palpatine. Together you learn the ways of the Force"

I dunno. Maybe they had blinders on or something.

 

https://collider.com/rise-of-skywalker-editor-the-last-jedi-comments/

This one has quotes from both Maryann Brandon and Chris Terrio (As well as Mary Jo Markey who edited TFA)regarding the direction of the story. Brandon refers to her feelings on how TLJ carried on (or didn't) from TFA and Terrio speaks about trying to pick that story back up for TROS.

https://www.awardsdaily.com/2019/12...-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-editor-interview/

This one has Maryann Brandon specifically talking about Luke's arc and how it affected the story and specifically how Luke dying was a problem.

These are just two interviews and there are others where they make similar comments. Although the first article just has quotes, one can listen to the entire interview to get the full context. That being said, the quotes in the first article are quite direct and and they are very much in line with the entire interview.

The overall point is that, for better or worse, the decisions made in TLJ specifically had an impact on the story direction and changed what they would have otherwise done. Taking those points into context with other comments about Rey (we STILL don't know what JJ said her lineage was when making TFA) and it paints a clearer picture of how Rey and Luke's arcs in particular were forcibly shaped by both the story presented in TLJ and the real-world passing of Carrie Fisher.

Whether you like or dislike TLJ or the ST, that's three specific people who helped shape the story and worked closely with JJ that have more or less said that TLJ derailed things. Fans of TLJ and the ST will of course not see that as an issue whereas other fans might.

Brandon and Terrio have also hinted that JJ had a plan for Rey's lineage in TFA that was ultimately different than what we got but they did not elaborate. Terrio specifically said that he didn't want to speak for JJ or what he originally planned but that the Palpatine lineage was not the original plan from the start.

JJ himself has more or less kept his thoughts to himself.

 

That was certainly part of it, but both Brandon and Terrio have stated at different points that Luke's death combined with the real-world loss of Carrie caused issues with the story moving forward. The natural assumption based on what we saw in TROS and Terrio's other comments on the subject is that those factors specifically derailed (for lack of a better term) what they wanted to do with Rey's story originally.

 

Hate that Collider article. Perfectly encompasses the "Rian is the greatest filmmaker of all time" attitude around the sequels. He can do no wrong and even if he ignored things from TFA, it's okay because his fans like his movie more.

One of the popular "Rey Nobody" advocates in the aftermath of TROS just recently said she would've been accepting of Rey Palpatine if it was seeded in TFA, and the fact that JJ gave her no narrative trinkets that tied her to Palpatine made him an idiot and a hack.

All of this ignoring that JJ did give Rey numerous narrative hints all the way through TFA that tied her to Luke and the Skywalkers; the pilot helmet, the lightsaber calling to her, the visions of Luke's island, etc.

But we don't like to remember that because it means we'd have to acknowledge that Rian completely trashed that setup and did absolutely nothing with it other than troll the audience and try to rip off the father reveal from ESB.

 

I will just single out one point from this post (which I agree with): JJ DID have things set up a certain way, no matter how much is detractors have said otherwise. He DID have a lineage in mind for Rey during TFA and he DID have a basic outline of where he thought the story should go after TFA. Although we do not know the full details of that story as JJ has chosen not to speak on it, we have had two editors (Brandon and Markey), a writer (Terrio), and JJ's best friend (Simon Pegg) state this over the years.Ultimately, those ideas were thrown out and RJ made TLJ.

You can't blame it all on Rian though; it was Lucasfilm that made the call to first toss the Lucas drafts and THEN they let Rian take off with the story and do whatever he wanted with it. It's up to each individual fan to determine whether or not the end result worked. For me, the ST doesn't work and the characters of Rey and Luke were the biggest casualties of this process.

That is probably the biggest reason why the creative process of the ST both fascinates and frustrates.

 

Both TLJ/TFA focused a lot on the legacy of the OT characters and how they were failures in that their political legacy, the NR is destroyed, and that the legacy of Han/Leia/Luke is corrupted in the form of Kylo Ren. I think the obvious thing TROS would have done would be to do an about face maybe framing Rey as the true inheritor of Luke/Leia/Han's legacy and redeeming their legacy. But that direction probably was not possible with the death of Luke in TLJ and the real life death of Carrie Fisher. Instead they just dug up Rey Palpatine as a consolation prize since Ian McDiarmid was available.

 

Rey was never gonna inherit Leia's Legacy. she could only really inherit Lukes being the jedi character of the trilogy. Leia's part was more authority and political.

 

Or...lol...maybe they really could have done an Empress Rey storyline. But she's a good Empress. The opposite of Palpatine in every way. She orders a new jedi order to established officially as part of the Empire. And promises to bring back the Senate, and other democratic norms.

 

Well even Daisy herself said the closest connection that was floating during TFA was making her a Kenobi. i don't think Skywalker or Solo was ever on the table. i reaaaally don't think they wanted her to be related to the Skywalkers. I think thats one thing they 99.9% knew for certain going in.

 

I imagine the difficult part of switching writers during a single trilogy is not being able to go back and make changes to the earlier episodes. There’s a naturally occurring phenomenon that shows up around the end of second acts where the New Thing is discovered that’s going to resolve the central conflict of the story in Act 3(in this case, arguably, Rey’s deliverance from hero-worship). However, without the same central author for the middle and final acts, the personal element gets diluted. Freedom from hero-worship may be a deeply important discovery for Rian as a writer but may not be compelling to Terrio. They can do their jobs to best of their abilities, but without sharing a vision, they won’t be able to compliment each other strongly enough to maintain a cohesive story under the surface.

One of the press statements that always kind of bothered me during the build up for episode 9 was the constant reminder that the movie doesn’t just have to conclude the trilogy, but the whole saga. It didn’t bother me because I disagreed with it, I very much agree with it, but because it seemed to suggest that they didn’t have this understanding going into 7 & 8. That 9 was disproportionately expected to carry the weight of concluding the entire saga. You don’t shove that duty into just the final episode, you design the basic story of all three movies that way.