ST Rey Skywalker/Daisy Ridley Discussion Thread

QFT.

Words to live by. Seriously.

 

Unless they bring back the Kylo Ren and Rey as a duo, what is it point in the Saga though? And Kylo die didn't he?

 

Its not really about them. its the dyad concept. What it means. What it is. Other stuff like that.

Its not said that Rey and Ben are the only Dyads to exist. Palpatine says its been "unseen for generations". meaning its a rare force bond. meaning that yeah they could do an old republic series... And do another dyad if they wanted.

 

Yes they could, but I do not think it will be explore again. I think it will be quietly forgotten. I say this because the idea feel like a sticking plaster idea anyway. A kind of attempt to salvage what they could from The Last Jedi, a story that seem to be seen in retrospect as going 'off-course'

 

But its not from The Last Jedi. it was from The Rise Of Skywalker.

Even if it is sticking plaster over an idea. its potentially more beneficial to Disney than pretending it doesn't exist and having a big gaping hole in a film thats canon and will always be canon.

 

Yes I know. What I mean is that this idea introduce in Rise of Skywalker feel like an attempt to rationalise or resolve what came before in The Last Jedi, when Rey and Kylo were talk to each other and see each other across space. It did not feel as if something new idea to develop or explore because it is interesting, merely an attempt to resolve story ideas from previous chapter in an easy way.

 

Well really Star Wars has always done that. Clone Wars and other material has expanded material from the PT. there is material thats expanded on the OT. giving alot of information that only either got referenced or we see but didn't really get any context for. I mean they had a Krayt dragon in The Mandalorian. Which they admitted to basing it on the skeletal design that appeared in episode 4.

And expansions like that are water off a duck back for Disney. which creates no issue for them. only benefit really since now they have extra toy material. expansions are more beneficial to Disney than not.

 

What? There isn't any mess to clean up, the dyad as a concept is perfectly functional. Second, neither of those men will broach the topic.

 

To put it more simply:

It’s canon until it isn’t.

Words to live by re *any* modern franchise.

 

If you're anticipating a massive Sequel Trilogy retcon, you're going to be disappointed.

 

Yes. There is nothing to convince that a 'dyad' connect them in some way. They are not related. I do not think they are even the same ages? The dyad was a plot to try and explain why they were together, when there is not any reason why they would come together as they are shown.

 

That doesn't need any profound justification beyond "the Force working in mysterious ways," or, "a prophecy foretold it." You know, just like the Chosen One and his virgin birth.

 

There does not. But then what happen with such abstract ideas is that you ask yourself "Do I believe this?" and for me, the answer was "Not really" whereas with other Force concept, I can suspend the disbelief. It just did not feel like robust addition to Star Wars lore.

 

so there’s a lot about both the PT and ST that doesn’t actually work, I kind of agree on that

I’m not sure how that somehow translates to Kylo not being a monster though, I mean isn’t that what a villain is supposed to be, I mean he straight up orders his troops to murder a whole village, it’s the first thing we see of the character, how is that not monstrous?

 

Anakin having no father was basically irrelevant to the PT.

The "Chosen One" prophecy, however, *was* relevant in that it presumably helped give Anakin a sense of entitlement, got Palps to target him as a boy, and represented an ironic twist of fate in RotS. It certainly wasn't "Because Reasons."

 

It's a modern mythology with spiritual and religious theming. It works fine.

Why does it matter if Shmi is sexually involved or not?

And the dyad likewise served a narrative purpose? It wasn't superfluous, even if, again, you disagree with the premise or why it was implemented.

 

How? What purpose?

It was needed in neither TFA nor TLJ. It’s a complete retcon that was clearly not contemplated in TFA or TLJ that “explains” that Rey and Kylo are connected because…they are connected. ie “because Reasons.”

 

Dumb because you want Star Wars to be grounded and less transcendental in its spiritual and religious theming? I mean, that's your prerogative I guess. I recall having this same disagreement over Palpatine's son, despite his unnatural heritage better serving every character involved.

The same purpose as a "chosen one" prophecy. Anakin doesn't need the weight of a prophecy to drive his arrogance, nor does said prophecy need to inform Palpatine's decision to mold him into a servant. Neither device is strictly necessary, they merely serve to embellish and elevate existing events with additional context.

 

Exactly!

“Narrative purpose” need not = “the story literally falls apart without it.” And the Chosen One prophecy serves a narrative purpose.

Would it have served a narrative purpose had it been inserted into Rots as a random hasty retcon without any substative explanation of what the prophecy was, though? No.

 

They both serve a narrative purpose. Would the dyad have more weight if it were introduced in TFA? Absolutely, but it still serves a function. In fact, the Chosen One prophecy was retconned into the story 22 years later. Compare that with the four between TFA and TROS. Sure, when the films are watched in numerical order, the prophecy appears to have been established in such a way as to inform every subsequent film in the saga, but we all know that's not how things played out in terms of production. TROS re-contextualizes previous episodes in the same way that TPM re-contextualizes episodes that were produced earlier.

 

I’m not sure why you’re talking about the Chosen One prophecy being a retcon of the OT as if it changed anything about the OT or had any effect on it at all. If you’re curious why the Chosen One prophacy was never mentioned in the OT, it’s because it was invented to serve Anakin’s story, and the OT was Luke’s story. No one thinks George should have written Anakin’s backstory before he finished the OT. Unless you’d like to explain why it was bad writing for Lucas not to seed concepts from a story he wouldn’t write for 15 years into his current complete story?

On the other hand, the ST - unlike Episodes 1 - 6, is (or was supposed to be) one story told in three parts. It was announced as a trilogy, unlike the OT which, like most trilogies, wouldn’t have gotten parts 2 and 3 had the first movie flopped. There was no reason to create a new “because reasons” concept in the final act when it should have been introduced in the first or second movie.

And, ironically, it’s utterly meaningless. We knew in TLJ that Rey and Kylo had a connection. We just didn’t know why, and TLJ explicitly made it a mystery (“Why is the force connecting us?”). In TROS, we learn that the Force connected Rey and Kylo because….the Force connected Rey and Kylo. Basically the movie just named the connection and called that name a definition.

It’s almost as if there had once - or twice! - been an actual cogent reason why Rey and Kylo were connected but each had been removed and so the filmmakers felt they had to slap on some sort of bandaid.

 

If they ever continue on with the dyad concept, they just need to treat it as the dark side curse that it is. Someone here has said that in canon (outside the movies) it has already been mentioned that the dyad was something that the Sith (or was it Palpatine himself?) were studying and trying to understand. I could imagine this being a tool that darksiders might to try to develop... i.e. a way to torment, weaken, hunt, and attempt to draw their "counterpart" into darkness. You definitely see the "curse" with Rey, where the first time she seems truly at peace is only after the dyad is dead. I think they will probably leave it alone since it was obviously just JJ's last ditched effort to justify Rey's stupidity, but as long as they drop the Reylo BS of this being a star-crossed lovers thing and acknowledge that it is a negative, I think they could do something with the concept if they really wanted to.