ST Rey Skywalker/Daisy Ridley Discussion Thread

Not better, but i see a difference between subdue and kill

 

Invading her mind for information and ignoring personal boundaries is just teasing her.
Attacking her with a lightsaber is just romantic foreplay.
Screaming that he promises to destroy her, and then spends the next year trying to murder her, is just ... flirting.

See. Nice Guy that Kylo Ren. Someone needs a girlfriend.

 

Of course the issue arises because A) The writers are trying to overlay a romantic subplot between Rey and Kylo... and B) They are trying to create a redemption angle...

Ultimately they don't know who this character (Kylo) really is or should be...

 

Its really something. Seeing the fans of the Kylo Trilogy go to such great lengths to defend and diminish, if necessary, his evil. Oh he wasn't really trying to murder her. He just said he was. He wasn't trying to kill her, he was just trying to subdue her, and invade her body and mind in order to 'take whatever he wanted'. And apparently attempted murder doesn't count if the would-be murderer is just bad at it.

They guy is the villain. But he is treated with care and full forgiveness, preemptively, for any evil action or desire, because they know that he'll be redeemed someday, quickly in the last movie, when this raging narcissist forgives himself because he has a conversation with his imagination. And the trophy for that is clearly a girlfriend.

 

I guess there is a bigger question around the nature of 'evil' and 'redemption'. At his most evil would Vader have killed anyone? He was certainly trying to kill Obi-Wan (ROTS and ANH)... and would have killed Luke (probably) if the need had arisen on Cloud City (possibly). So it's not that Kylo being redeemed isn't an impossibility, or that Ben Solo before his turn was a 'good man'... it's just that the entire thing (from top to bottom) is so badly conceived and written... and ultimately the absolute sticking point is that there is no logical reason why Rey would ever have feelings for Kylo... other than the practical element of her wanting Kylo Ren/Ben being an ally rather than an enemy. It all comes back to the fact that if this is the route they wanted to take, Rey and Kylo should have been written as siblings or 'besties' at the academy etc. Their relationship should have been established first. That's the fundamental ingredient that gives Rey reason/motivation, but alas it's completely missing.

 

It's also because redemption wasn't on the table originally, so they didn't set up that story in TFA, or even really, TLJ. The entire thing is just tacked on at the end.

A redemption story could have worked, I suppose, although I think it would always seem rather redundant and weirdly unnecessary. (for all the fan talk about how a TRIO reunion wasn't ever needed, or doesn't work well, the redemption narrative is even less so).

It's really just more copy-paste uncreativity on JJ's part. That he could stick with his own concept through to the end is kind of ... sad. Either make Kylo a monster, or don't. Either do a repetitive redemption tale, or don't.

Far better for the Skywalker Saga narrative would have been for Kylo to be good. Or if he was bad, have him realize his errors in TFA and show how he becomes inspired by Anakin's redemption, and then goes on to rebuild the family name, and the Jedi Order. Show him struggle with the dark side and getting over his faults, obsessions, etc in EP 7. Maybe Rey (a sister, or a fellow student from Luke's academy) plays a major role in that reversal. And then together they take on new enemy.

It's rather unfulfilling that the Skywalker narrative ends in ruin, with all of them dead, with another evil Skywalker heir, who only manages to be good in the final muted seconds of his life, just for Rey Palpatine to take the name and crown.

 

Okay, just got caught up. So Finn and Rey kissing was against the "rules"? Really? Is that why they had Black/Caucasian couples in the Beauty and the Beast, Lady and the Tramp, and the Little Mermaid remakes, to name a few? Or is Lucasfilm the one who has a problem with that? Oh, wait, there was that Duchess and Duke in the Mandalorian. Or was that okay because it was only one episode, and they didn't kiss?

Would it be against the "rules" if Rey and Poe kissed? I mean it would have been random, I'll admit, but it would at least be better than Rey and Kylo kissing. Or what about Finn and Poe? Would that have broken the rules?

 

You would have to assume TFA even suggested there was more.

 

What do you mean 'assume'. They literally kissed. She kissed him. On the forehead.

That happened.

But I get it. Another example of ignoring what's going on screen, any time Finn is actually on screen.

 

Isnt kiss on forhead like a friend zone thing

 

Leia gave more to an injured Luke and he turned out to be her brother.

 

You’ve never given your spouse or partner a kiss on the forehead? Never?!?

it can be for friends, for comfort, or something more, like a building romance and love.

 

Not on forhead, but cheek i have

 

Ok. I give my wife a kiss on the forehead all the time. Not a friend only thing. Just means care about a loved one

in fact ..come to think of it., I have never ever given “just a friend” a kiss on the forehead or anywhere.

 

But you also care about friends in that way too. Thats the thing. In comparison TFA left things again so incredibly vague that its easy to not see any potential romance there. The kiss on the forehead very much doesn't signify romance. Heck Leia kissed Luke several times in far less subtle ways and that signified way more romantic connection than what ended up happening with Finn and Rey.

Usually in movies if you want to get your point across you make it a little more obvious, When you go vague and subtle, it leaves everything open to not going that way. Suggesting the idea that it was never going that way in the first place.

Even ANH set up Luke and Leia as romantic far less subtle

 

TFA seemed like it was written in such a way that the next movie could have the option of building a romance for Rey and Finn or not - just another part of the bizarre decision to not plan out and have clear ideas for the entire trilogy ahead of time. (Yeah yeah I know, OT wasn't totally planned out either and blah blah...but frankly, just because something works once doesn't mean it will always work!) And unfortunately, TLJ didn't even see fit to build upon the friendship between Rey and Finn, which was indisputably there.

 

We're probably never gonna know the real story, but I suspect that Driver becoming an A list actor during the making of the ST might have had something to do with sidelining Finn for Kylo. I don't even know if it was malicious toward Boyega as much as it was realizing Driver was going to be big so might as well focus on him while they had him. Perhaps that's what facilitated the redemption angle.

During the ST Driver worked with Martin Scorsese, Terry Gilliam, Spike Lee, Steven Soderbergh, Jim Jarmusch, Noah Bombach and Ridley Scott. Driver accepting these projects would have to be known by Disney/Lucasfilm when trying to negotiate schedules, pay rates, locations, etc... These are heavy hitters so Driver blowing up wouldn't be unexpected. During that time Boyega's demand was nowhere near that level and add to that the abuse he was taking from a certain part of the audience I can understand elevating Driver over Boyega.

I'm not condoning it, I understand billion dollar corporations are going to go with the "safer" choice when it profits are on the line. I don't expect courage from billion dollar companies. It wouldn't surprise me if there were instructions from higher ups than Lucasfilm about the direction of Rey/Finn in response to the online hate directed at Boyega & Ridley in TFA. It's only been recently that Disney has grown a spine as far as casting in The Little Mermaid & Snow White only to be met with cries of woke from probably the same crowd that complained about Boyega, Tran & Ridley years before.

 

So that jacket got around it seems. Spicy love triangle.

 

Seriously...this isn't a defence you seem to think it is.