ST Rian Johnson (Director Of TLJ) Discussion Thread

its weid how good hearted she was until season 7 and 8.

 

Honestly I think the final seasons of GoT were a travesty and I had zero investment in the franchise. I’m bothered by the false “truism” that one can only think the ending of a story was horribly done if “it didn’t meet your expectations.” I’ve expected that the series could not be concluded in a satisfactory manner ever since I read book 4 (long before the show) because the narrative trajectory seemed utterly unwieldy to me.

And yet the way the show ended was bad in a whole different way!

 

any Last Jedi vets pop up in the raft of Knives Out 2 casting? I just really hope he gets some of them in Knives Out 3 when it happens.

 

You have to go to the JJ thread to talk about Rian Johnson

 

That's not how I read it.

I always thought she had a dark edge to her.

 

all characters on the show had dark edges, but her change was just too mutch. it makes Anakin's turn sound like a masterpiece.

 

I mean Anakin's turn is a masterpiece

But I disagree and think Danny turn was fine if just a bit rushed.

 

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That happens the further you drift from the core story. GOT directors didn't have Martin’s work to build off. Outlines weren't enough to tell as full of a story as it started when they had full books.

GOT, like SW, is built on connected stories. If a director cheats the story telling process- it eventually falls apart - no matter how many cool scenes are there.

ST was GOT final season if after Martin’s books they passed on continuing his story and some other people told a story - in conflict with each other - and folks wonder why it's rejected by so many and they just done "Shut up and like it". Could have gotten away with it if the story was consistent.

 

Eh, I liked it and thought it was fine.

If people rejected it...I don't really care there reasons.

 

All personal opinion anyone has right to have. I thought it was fine as well - but I didn't start watching GOT until the middle of the series

I also can recognize how it pulled the rug out from the fans. Martin does as well and recently spoke about it. Disney knows what they did too - and now are embracing GL and his work like fans thought they would originally.

 

I've never seen Daredevil, but Jessica Jones was pretty good. Luke Cage wasn't my cup of tee and Iron Fist was...I don't want to talk about Iron Fist, lol - though it *was* what made me realize that I might have preferred Jessica Henwick over Daisy Ridley as Rey

All your really proving here is that people have different tastes; I knew that already, lol

Should what the "larger audience" feels really matter, though? We're not the Borg; we don't share a hive mind.

And sure, it didn't make as much as TFA. But it still made bank, so ultimately who cares?

Errr...that wasn't Shimi, it was very obviously the Son pretending to be Shimi to F-around with Anakin.

Phase 1 was lifted off the ground and into public praise by a movie about an alcoholic, womanizing washed-up, amoral arms dealer learning how to be a superhero, Thor 3 exists to "subvert" Thor 1 and 2 and turn the character almost completely on his head, they just premiered three shows within which two villains become protagonist and in the third a hero does some pretty **tty things. And then, you know, there's the two Deadpools.

They'd clearly have no issue with Johnson's approach to characters; in fact, they'd likely look at Luke in TLJ and sympathetic-yet-still-evil Kylo and go...

If we have to go to the JJ thread to talk about Johnson, and the Johnson thread is for talking about Game of Thrones, where do we got to talk about JJ?

I'm a Stark man through and through so, you know...


I have no complaints

I mean, it had it's flaws and IMO it failed to stick it's landing worse the TROS, but I enjoyed it overall.

I guess what I'm saying is I like the final season of GOT (more or less)

Yara didn't go mad, Arya didn't go mad, Sansa didn't go mad, Margaery didn't go made, Olenna didn't go mad, Myrcella never went mad, Lyanna Mormont never went mad, Missandei never went mad, Shireen never went mad, ect, ect, ect...

Dany going "mad" had nothing to do with her being a woman, it had to do with her being a self-righteous, entitled narcissist with a savior complex and a building case of paranoia who had been threatening to burn cities since literally the second season, and always had a thinly-veiled brutality and skewed, disproportionate sense of "justice" that her stans ignored because she was always fighting easy-to-hate people and they wanted to yell "yazzz queeen! Slaya!!!"

IMO her fall from grace was telegraphed miles off to anyone actually paying attention (que overused Ramsey Bolton "if you think this has a happy ending..." gif)

@JoJoPenelli @bstnsx704 If - *if* - that scene was actually shot with dialogue (and keep in mind that that, if it is, this is very conveniently something not in the script, not in the novelization that's BASED on the script, not included in any behind-the-scenes videos or deleted scenes, ect) then it clearly wasn't dialogue that Abrams felt was important enough to keep in the film, so who cares?

- Is she looking for her father in Luke but he rejects her so she goes to the cave to try and see her actual parents? I'm not sure if she went into the cave *specifically* to try and see her parents (the way the movie presents it, it just kinda looks like she initially went in just because the Dark Side is calling her in), and I don't think she was consciously looking for a father-figure in Luke; both Kylo in TLJ and Maz in TFA, though, are pretty clear that Rey is looking for family/belonging, so I *do* think she subconsciously tried to latch onto Luke as a surrogate father figure.
- Why does she confide in Kylo. How does she view him? Based on how that specific scene plays out, I think she views him warily, but with growing sense of sympathy, pity or both. I think she confided in him though, simply because he was their and she was in an emotionally vulnerable situation; the movie makes it pretty clear that they don't have control over their link until *after* Snoke dies and can't control when they see each other, so clearly she didn't go *looking* for him.
- When she grabs for the saber, was she going to fight Kylo? Yes.
- At the start of the film - she wanted Luke to leave with her straight away. So was she planning to be trained, just somewhere else? Presumably - remember, he actual mission was always to retrieve him; getting trained was a personal thing she wanted, not her actual task.
- During the first lesson (actually a good scene until Luke freaks out) why does she go straight to the dark? She's a headstrong, short-tempered, passionate, emotional person inexperienced with the Force and it's nuances. The Dark Side is like catnip to people like that; heck, even people like Ezra and Luke when they had significantly *more* experience then Rey easily felt the allure of Dark Side temptation.
- What did she expect to happen when she headed to Snoke’s ship? This is one place were I actually think the movie erred (I think we should have seen her vision), but as-is I think it's pretty clearly explained that she goes because she needs a substitute for Luke in the "powerful Force user who can help turn the tide of the war" niche and her vision (which she doesn't realize is fake) has convinced her Kylo is going to turn.
- Why is everyone chipper at the end when they almost got totally wiped out? They really didn't seem very "chipper" to me; overall the films ending tone felt like it was conveying an overall somber tone in spite of that fact that their was still a small spark of hope left in the galaxy.

Who cares if they preferred JJ? If you sit down with any given actor and ask them about working with any given director they'll almost certainly have some people they preferred over others for this reason or another. In fact Hamill himself seemingly preferred Lucas over Keshner (and I don't see anyone using this to make some sort of point against Kersh or ESB - though I do see basically *everyone* it when they rush to making something out of nothing in regards to Hamill personally disagreeing with Johnson's creative decisions).

They clearly had no personal issue with Johnson, and beyond that there's ample evidence they had fun on the film (even if, hypothetically, it was less fun the on TFA/TROS) and *no* evidence of anything untowards happening BTS, so ultimately I don't see why any of this matters...

...like really what your saying is that they *maybe* *possibly* had *somewhat less* fun working with Johnson then with Abrams, yet have no issue with the guy. Okay...

 

@godisawesome It wasn't a drastic change, though; she had been looking for an excuse to do what she did to King's Landing for *years*. It's really only the presence of reasonable people willing to stand up to her and check her bad impulses who she *also* trusted (Jorah, Barristan, Tyrion, Jon) that stopped this from being a thing beforehand - and by the end Mormont and Selmy were dead, she didn't trust Tyrion anymore and Jon was viewed more with paranoia than anything else. The only person left was Grey Worm, who was a consummate yes-man who was seeing more red then Dany was at that point.

Like for Christ sakes the woman wanted to burn Qarth down because they didn't want to let her through the front doors! Her fall was telegraphed *way* before Varys turned on her, and honestly it wasn't even that well-hidden.

 

I agree about Dany; the signs were there. She never seemed very stable to me. It was clear Sansa never trusted her.

 

"Sir, it's quite possible this Targaryen is not entirely stable..."

 

NEVER!

 

It's a Wonderful Life was a dud at the box office, performing so bad it actually killed Liberty Films. And yet today it's one of the most beloved Christmas films ever.

I've never put much stock in what the "larger audience" feels, especially since their opinions change over time and aren't even relevant to the thing that IMO actually matters with movies, which is "well, do *YOU* enjoy it?" (though to be totally honest I don't even think TLJ was really all that disliked by the general audience to begin with). I'm not "the larger audience." I don't know them and I'm not trying to impress them or endear myself to them, so why, oh why, should I really care whether or not they might like or hate X given film?

 

When it comes to what you, personally feel about a film, the only thing that should matter is what you feel about it.
I really like both Princess Bride and Stardust, neither film did very well at the BO.
Does that matter when it comes to my like of the films? Nope.

I am also a fan of the Valerian comics and while the film had some good stuff it also had issues and did not do well at the BO. So while my like of the comics have not changed, I know that I am unlikely to see any further films based on them. And that is a pity.

If the discussion is about how a film/TV series was received by the public at large or what the lasting impact would be. THEN what the general audience thought is more relevant.
One can have season 8 of GoT as their personal best season over all but when discussing how well it went down or what the reputation of GoT is now, then one should factor in the very mixed response it got.

I still like the Hobbit trilogy but I would never deny that it did not do as well as the LotR trilogy in overall reception. And I don't think it is as good but I don't think it is terrible either.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

But *why* are we discussing how it was received by the public at large? It constantly gets (oftentimes randomly) brought up how TLJ wasn't as well received as TFA (always with the fact that it *was* financially successful ignored, and often with much ado made about the RT scores). Really the only reason I can think to do this is because people are trying to "prove" it was a bad movie, but nobody is going to be swayed by this because the people who hate it already hate it, the people who like it don't care and the general audience in general probably hasn't even noticed.

Well, I don't see many people trying to argue the "market has spoken!" and the "audience voted with their wallets!" on The Hobbit movies.

 

now we’re talking about Princess Bride and Hobbit films

Inconceivable!!!

 

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means in this thread.

 

yeah, well my headcanon says otherwise

 

This thread titles are funny

 

These threads could use more humor. Or any humor.