ST Rian Johnson (Director Of TLJ) Discussion Thread

You’ve spent several posts discounting the criticism that Boyega’s character was pushed aside in favour of others, so clearly you don’t support his views on the character. One can ‘accept’ that conscious and subconscious bias occurs, but it’s another thing to actively deny, or not acknowledge, that it happened in a specific instance (in this example Finn’s character), when the person involved believes it did. And rather than step away from your position that it just didn’t happen, you double down on it by claiming that Boyega is just ‘bitter’ and it was him that was being unfair to Driver and Ridley.

 

I never discounted the critism (from Boyaga or anyone else), I just said I don't personally agree with them.

Why should I change the way I personally feel about the film just becuase of the way anouther person personally feels about it?

The fact that you lot her dislike Finn's arc in TLJ did'nt cuase me to dislike it, so why would Boyaga disliking it cuase me to change how I feel? His view does not gain extra validity in my mind just becuase he played the character.

Well, I call him bitter becuase that's what he seems to be. I can't think of a better word for his feelings then that.

And I already admitted I misjudged his postions on Driver and Ridley.

 

But unfortunately for you, you are not the arbitrator of whether Boyega was the victim of bias. And trying to claim he wasn’t, just because you like the film, isn’t a good look IMHO.

No one is asking you to change your opinion of the film... It’s about accepting the fact that Boyega believes he was the victim of bias, and how that bias manifests itself in the function, utility and development of his character in Star Wars.

You completely miss the point.

And that’s exactly how prejudice manifests itself. You automatically think he is to blame rather than trying to understand why be believes he was treated in a certain way. Nice.

Which maybe suggests you should take a step back, do some research, and then respond?

 

I see no evidence to support the idea that he was a victim of bais; I 100 percent believe Boyega himself felt his character was mishandled and I'm not questioning the validity of his personal feelings, but (as far as I am aware) there is absolutly no evidence to suggest the idea of Johnson actually having a bais against him; in fact, as far as I can recall Johnson's never been anything but nice and complimentry of the guy.

At worst I suppose you can say that Johnson had a blind spot for Kylo and Rey that probobly influanced his writing process, but A) there's no way to know how much this blind spot influanced Finn's character and B) even if we want to consider that a bais against Finn it's not the same thing as a bais against Boyega; Johnson - again - seems to have had zero issue with John on both a personal and professional level.

I literally never denied Boyega believed he was the victim of bais.

As for accepting how that bais manifests in the function, utility and development of his character, me doing that would require *me* to believe there's a bias present, which I personally do not.

I don't really think I have.

No research is nessesery, I simply misjuged the tone of his words and was unaware their was more to the story then that articale. I was then informed as to the information I was unaware of and have already manned up, admitted I was wrong and moved on.

 

Boyega's words is all the proof that I need, to justify what he said about Ridley and Driver.
Whether he was, or wasn't treated unfairly, is irrelevant. The point is, that both Ridley and Driver supported him.
It seems to me that you want to take offense on behalf of these 2, when they themselves didn't have an issue with Boyega.

 

That you see no evidence is irrelevant. This is not WandaVision. Things can and do exist without you having to bring them into existence first.

I think you mean at best, Johnson had a 'blind spot for Kylo and Ren'. At worst would mean that Johnson deliberately moved focus away from Finn because he didn't want the main focus to be on the black character. That's kind of the worst scenario.

Your deflecting. I 'literally' never stated that you'd denied Boyega believed he was the victim of bias. What I'm calling you out on is you trying to refute his experiences as if it's something fictional and that bias never presented itself. You're effectively stating, 'I believe Boyega thinks he was discriminated against, but he's just mistaken and probably just a little bitter. Therefore no bias against Boyega occured'. Try using that train of thought in other scenarios. Would you, for example, believe Harvey Weinstein's victims are just 'bitter' and their experiences just fictional?

Well of course. Boyega's personal experience doesn't fit in with your view of the world, so you'd rather just discount it because, by virtue, it may make TLJ a lesser film for you.

Clearly you have... because you don't seem to comprehend how your posts are coming across... and I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here.

You've kind of demonstrated that you did actually go and have to look up the articles after you'd made the comments. So my advice stands.

 

It seems to me that you were'nt paying attention to the conversation, becuase I already admitted I was wrong and simple misunderstood the situation due to the phrasing of Boyega's words/a lack of information BEFORE you joined in the conversation.

I thought he threw them under the bus for the sake of his own grieviences with TLJ and Johnson, and evidently - based on the fact that Ridley and Kennedy apparently reached out to support him afterwards (and I highly doubt either would do that if he was acting unprofessionally towards Driver or Johnson) - I was incorrect on both counts and his issue is soley with his charactor's narrative in TLJ.

I'm not really in the habit of believing things when I see no evidence to support them.

I believe Boyega feels the way he feels becuase I have no reason not to believe him and I'm not quesitoning the validity of his experiences or feelings, but I see no evidence to suggest that Johnson, on his part, harbored any ill will or intent towards Boyega (and even Boyega does'nt seem to be arguing that, as far as I'm aware).

No, at worst is the correct wording, becuase it means "under the most unfavorable interpretation" and my most unfavorable interpretation of the situation would lead me to conclude that Johnson simply had a blind spot for Kylo and Rey's characters.

I'm not doing that.

I never ONCE claimed he was mistaken. DO NOT put words in my mouth.

What I'm acknowledging (not arguing) is that Boyega clearly feels that his character got the short end of the stick realtive to Kylo and Rey and he seems bitter (or upset/disapointed/angry whatever word you want to us) I support his right to be upset and disapointed, consider it a perfectly valid and understandable reaction and have no intention of claiming his personal opinions are any more wrong or right then mine, it's just that his view regarding TLJ is not one that I share and his feelings about Finn's role in the film do not alter my feelings about the character and the movie.

Is that clear?

Wow, trying to present someone not being totally happy with the creative decisions made regarding a fictional character they played in a fantasy film as comparable with woman getting raped.

That's disingenuous. And - I'll be honest PJ - it's also f-ing disgusting.

I never discounted it, as I've now said to you MULTIPULE TIMES.

Apparently my posts are coming across as "Boyega totally imagined his experiences and his feelings regarding The Last Jedi don't matter and are made up. He sees the movie differently then me so his views wrong." when what I'm actually (very clearly) saying is "I'm not disputing Boyega's experiences at all and *his* feelings regarding The Last Jedi absolutly matter *to him*, even if *I* feel otherwise, becuase everyone is entitled to feel and view the film the way they do and I would never dare tell anyone their personal perspective on things is flawed."

If you actually read the exchange in quesiton you'd see that I shared my reading of the situation and @reyvision (thankfully) shared information that I was unaware existed that proved I had misread Boyega, and then I manned up and moved on.

This was pages ago. Your late to the party. Stories over. Move on.

 

Well then if you already admitted that you had judged Boyega unfairly, and that he did nothing wrong, then my analogy is correct. Which it was anyway, because I was going for solidarity between co-workers, which is how a professional environment should work. And it doesn't depend on what Kennedy said or did not say about Boyega. Her opinion on the matter is irrelevant to what's fair. But I am glad we agree that Boyega did not throw anyone under the bus, especially since neither Ridley nor Driver felt like that.

 

I think that what is being suggested here is that whatever went on behind the scenes for the actor John Boyega during the production of this movie, and I won't doubt his word, that doesn't manifest itself on screen as some kind of denigration of the character of Finn. For me at least. I actually think his role was stronger in The Last Jedi than the previous picture. In The Force Awakens, Finn was depicted as a figure of fun, and running around at the back of Rey. At least in The Last Jedi, he was given the secondary sub-plot, and was depicted as a more determined and steely character. I mean, he is one of only two characters (the other being the guy who says "Five bloody minutes ago!") to swear in a Star Wars movie. So whilst some people see Finn's role in The Last Jedi as a "demotion", presumably because he isn't a Jedi in it, nor gets to date Rey, I feel that Finn perhaps got a better deal in Episode 8. Better still in 9.

There is very little to gauge what an alternative version of The Last Jedi ought to have looked like for John to feel that he was a victim of bias. Which again, I don't doubt his word.

 

I still don't think your analogy is correct, becuase it's built around the assertation of malicious actions on the part of the employer (I.E Johnson), and their is no evidence (that I am aware of) to support that. I feel mine is more appropriate to the situation becuase it based around an employee feeling disapointed/let down by a decision made by their employer when their employer did'nt actually bear them any ill will and felt the decision was appropriate for their talents and abilities.

I never said it depended on what Kennedy said, I just said I doubt Kennedy would have had a supportive phone call with him if she believed his position expressed unprofessionalness towards Driver, Ridley or Johnson, becuase she does'nt seem like the kind of person that would condone such behavior (and ditto on Ridley supporting him as well for the same reason).

Exactly.

I don't doubt Boyega's feelings or perspective regarding Finn and The Last Jedi, I just don't share them.

I don't see why this is apparently all of a sudden a big issue, as I do the same damn thing with people on this forum every damn day and nobody has ever had an issue with it before now.

 

You very much are questioning the validity of his feeling and experiences when you claim you 'see no evidence', and then try and turn it on Boyega by connecting his 'experience' of the bias he received, to him just being 'bitter'. Also, this 'harbouring of ill will' is a bit of a red herring isn't it? Someone can show bias. and discriminate, without consciously harbouring 'ill will' towards the one receiving it.

At worst, Hannibal Lecter liked his food too much... Do you understand how those kind of semantics don't do you any favours?

You are really. You're not even being neutral on it. You're suggesting that Boyega just thinks he was discriminated against because he was 'bitter'.

So he's not mistaken and he was the victim of bias, unintentional or otherwise? Is that what you're now stating?

I don't think anyone needs to put words in your mouth. I'll ask again. Do you believe John Boyega experienced bias/racial inequalities, at the hands of Disney/Lucasfilm re. his Star Wars experience or not? John Boyega thinks he did...

You've reduced someones experience of prejudice and bias in Hollywood to being 'bitter'... I think the reductive nature of this debate is all yours.

And yet you don't believe that he suffered from any form of discrimination... and that you automatically think he was the problem. Right.

No... what you're trying to position is that although Boyega may 'feel' like he was discriminated against, he actually wasn't... and it's just him being 'bitter' about it.

That you wrote something, but we're now several posts on, doesn't negate the fact that you wrote it. If only life was that simple...

 

I literally never once questioned the validity of his feelings or experiences. Stop making **** up, PJ, it's super annoying and I'm beginning to think your doing this on purpose.

Not really, no.

I know a lot of people find it fashionable to hate on Johnson for no reason, but I actually require evidence when I want to dunk on the guy.

Are you going to provide evidence that Johnson, conciously or not, discriminated or held a bais against Boyega?

If that's the way you view Hannibal Lector man, hey, you do you...

No, I'm claiming he thinks he was discriminated against becuase HE HIMSELF HAS FLAT OUT SAID THAT HE THINKS THAT.

And I don't think it's "becuase" he was bitter, I think that the bitterness is becuase of that feeling of discrimination/lack of satisfaction with the film's storyline.

No. I'm stating what I've been stating since literally the begining of this conversation.

I acknowledge that Boyega feels upset over Finn's storyline/chracterization in TLJ, feels their was a bais against the character and was disapointed in the film. He's entitled to his opinion and I'm not about to dispute the validity of his personal feelings. I just don't personally hold the same opinion regarding the movie and the character as he does.

What about this is so hard for you to understand?

I don't know. I don't have access to the information required to make a factual assesment regarding that. At the very least I certainly believe that Boyega feels that such a thing occured, however, and I'm not going to dispute his feelings or personal perspective.

Dude, your the one comparing somebody's personal disapointment over a the direction the narrative of a FANTASY film took with a FICTIONAL character with people getting raped.

Don't spin this around on me just becuase you decided to make an extreme false equivilance. All I did was point out that Boyega's tone and attitude expressed bitterness, and *only* did so becuase I could'nt think of a better word to describe it. I never dismissed the feelings behind the bitterness, just said that I did'nt personally have the issue he had with the film that led to him holding those feelings.

I never claimed either of those things.

That's very clearly not what I'm saying at all. I never said he wasn't descriminated against, just pointed out that I am not aware of any evidence of a bais or discrimination on behalf of Johnson or LFL.

If Boyega believes that such a bais existed, though, then he's entitled to his belief and I'm not going to dispute the validity of his own perspective or tell him he's "wrong."

And that you keep trying to make an issue out of something that was resolved pages ago does'nt negate the fact that the issue has already been resolved.

 

Wait? So we're back to haters just want to hate for no reason. And they don't have any real reasons or evidence for their opinions of the movie or its director. And any evidence we do have - that continually post - isn't real and we just like to dunk on the guy?

Got it.

And you think this isn't being dismissive?

 

"I know a lot of people find it fashionable to hate on Johnson for no reason, but I actually require evidence when I want to dunk on the guy."
- what I actually said.

"I know people here are haters who dunk on Johnson for no reason and use imaginary evidence to argue their points."
- what I apparently said.

Like seriusly, I'm starting to wonder if what I'm saying does'nt get run through some sort of translation matrix once I hit "reply" and end up transformed into different versions of what I actually said where the context and intend is twisted into something melicious that it was'nt.

Did I say you? Did I mention names?

If I was talking about people here on TheForce.net I would have said "people around here". I was'nt, I was talking about the cottage industry of neckbeards out in the margins of the internet who hate RJ for the sake of hating him, think every breath he takes is a mortal sin against nature and whose arguments amount to variations of "RuIN JaCKson KiLLEd mu StaR WArz!"

Is'nt real? I never said that.

I just oftentimes don't draw the same conculsions from it that some of you guys do.

No, I really don't think you did...

Oh no, I do, and it totally was.

I just don't really care about being dissmissive to no life toxic neckbeards who live in their mom's basements whose "critism" of the ST is as deep as a puddle of stagnant water on a hot summer day in Arizona (and about as intellegent as a reunion of lobotomize lemmings who all graduated with Fs from Trump University) and whose hatred of the films is dictated by entitlement and an insecure fear of a female central characters. That's not anyone on this forum though, so I'm not sure why your getting upset.

 

You have... and you have done repeatedly.

This isn't about 'hating on Johnson', it's about the very real claim that Boyega was discriminated against, and how that manifests itself in the film. I don't have an opinion on whether Johnson's bias was conscious or subconscious, I'd like to think it was subconscious, but that doesn't negate the claim.

It's evidenced in the trivialisation of Finn's character in TLJ and that John Boyega believed he was pushed to the side.

No. That's not the way I view Hannibal Lecter. It is however, reflective of how you worded your statement about Johnson re. the 'worst case'.

You're deflecting the point. I refer you back to the other posts

That's not what you wrote...

No. What you're actually doing is reducing Boyega's experience to an 'opinion'. It's just his opinion that he was discriminated against... and opinion you disagree with,

Again, you're reducing Boyega's experience to an 'opinion'.

NO. John Boyega is quite clearly calling out the discrimination he believes he was subjected to. He's not speaking out on behalf of the fictional character, Finn, he's talking about discrimination against him, John Boyega. Do you not understand that???

As someone who is married to a black woman, and who has children of a mixed race, I can tell you for a fact, that I'm not 'spinning' anything. I have seen discrimination first hand through my own family... which is why I've found some of your comments hugely inappropriate and borderline offensive.

You claimed that he held his views because he was 'bitter', and then you tried to make out that he was being unpleasant to Driver and Ridley.

That is not what you've been stating. And the evidence is very much explicit in Boyega's comments.

Look back through your own posts. You have.

Because it demonstrates that you're willing to be vocal about an opinion without researching the facts first.

 

I may not necessarily agree with the interpretation, but I think some can see that as being directed at them if coming from a side that's not the side they agree with, whether what's said is intended to mean that or not.

 

@K2771991

I'm sorry, but your comments don't read like you consider John Boyega's feelings and perspective to be valid.

"It still reads as a him having an underlaying personal aninimity towards Johnson and is being unprofessional and ungentmenly towards the man, IMO"
"are we talking about, Boyega's personal opinion regarding the fact that he did'nt personally enjoy his storyline in TLJ?"
"just becuase they guy who played it is bitter about how the said character was treated by the narrative."
"and I'm sorry he did'nt have fun,"
"just becuase of he did'nt have a totally enjoyable experience making the movie."

Those read as disingenuous takes that tries to minimize and misdirect what Boyega is and has been talking about.

John Boyega's problem was not that he didn't have a "totally enjoyable experience" while filming the trilogy or that he "didn't personally enjoy his storyline". Among other things, it was about Disney using black representation to misleading market a film. It was about the hate that John Boyega had thrown at him for being a black man playing a leading role in a popular franchise film. It was about them not knowing/deciding what to do with the character. It was about him getting reduced on one of the film's movie posters because he was black. It was about people calling him rude for talking back to blatantly racist people who targeted him. It was about people telling him to shut up and just be grateful when he wanted to have a conversation about the handling of POC people in films.

It was, in many ways, a critique about the way that Disney used diversity (including LGBT) in the Sequel Trilogy: as a promotional pony and to further appearances, not as something they were really intend on committing to and using to create genuine representation. He's not even just talking about himself: he's talking about Naomi Ackie, Kelly Marie Tran and Oscar Isaac.

“It’s so difficult to manoeuvre,” he says, (...) “You get yourself involved in projects and you’re not necessarily going to like everything. [But] what I would say to Disney is do not bring out a black character, market them to be much more important in the franchise than they are and then have them pushed to the side. It’s not good. I’ll say it straight up.”

(...)

“Like, you guys knew what to do with Daisy Ridley, you knew what to do with Adam Driver,” he says. “You knew what to do with these other people, but when it came to Kelly Marie Tran, when it came to John Boyega, you know **** all. So what do you want me to say? What they want you to say is, ‘I enjoyed being a part of it. It was a great experience...’ Nah, nah, nah. I’ll take that deal when it’s a great experience. They gave all the nuance to Adam Driver, all the nuance to Daisy Ridley. Let’s be honest. Daisy knows this. Adam knows this. Everybody knows. I’m not exposing anything.”

 

you are doing exactly that when you say the following

that’s you saying you don’t believe Boyega’s experience actually happened, that’s you disputing his criticism, that’s you saying he is mistaken

Boyega’s own words are the evidence, and when you say you don’t see any evidence you are suggesting that his experience was not real.

 

I don't see what the problem would be anyway if JB did have a beef with RJ (I have no idea if he does). I know I have zero respect for the man based on how he treated gender and racial issues in TLJ (well, that plus that I find his twitter behavior very unprofessional), while at the same time boasting about diversity and blaming critiques of his film on sexists and Russian trolls. I don't know to what extent JB holds RJ personally responsible, but RJ is personally responsible. It's perfectly OK to call him out on that. This doesn't mean that RJ should be cancelled, but I'm not a fan of all the pearl clutching because a rich, powerful white dude is asked to examine the way he handles racial and gender issues in his work.

 

NO.
I.
HAVE.
NOT.
STOP.
MAKING.
****
UP.

If your going to make a claim, back it up with evidence.

I don't think Finn was trivialized in TLJ, and I'm not going to think that just becuase John Boyega personally feels that he was.

I stated what I saw as the worst case senario for Johnson's treatment of Finn; I.E that at worst he had a blind spot for the characters of Rey and Kylo that perhaps cuased him to give less attention to Finn's character then he would if he did'nt.

What exactly do you want from me here?

What other posts? The ones where you constantly tell me I'm not actually saying what I'm saying and ingore my repeated clarifications otherwise?

Not in so many words, no, but I'm not sure how you failed to get the gist of what I was saying.

I never said it was his opinion that he was discriminated against, I said that it was his opinion that Finn's character was done a diservice by TLJ.

Your conflating two totally seperate points.

Am I not allowed to disagree with his opinion?

No, I'm reducing his opinion to an opinion; again your conflating two different issues here.

Again, your conflating two seperate issues.

Well, as the person whose spent half the night constantly having his words spun around as he's told over and over again that he's saying things that he's not actually saying by some random guy online, I can tell you that you definantly are.

Well, guess what PJ, I've experience discrimination two, both against my mixed-race cousins and against my own person on behalf of Irish background. And I'm not sure what's so "borderline offensive" about having the tamarity to enjoy a character whose actor was'nt 100 percent satisfied with his experience in the role.

But that's probobly becuase you've been ingoring what I've actually been saying in favor of just making **** up.

No, actually I misunderstood his intention when he said what he said about them and admitted I was wrong when Reyvision explained it to me, and that PREDATED me saying he was bitter, which was just an observation on the tone of his attitude which you seem to (for some reason) be really hung up on even though it's not that big a deal.

I've stated that (or something along those lines) multipule times.

Doubtful, becuase if Boyega had made such allegations against Johnson we'd have a #cancelRJ treading up at the top my now and Disney would have canceled his trilogy.

I literally just googled "racist allegations against Rian Johnson by John Boyaga" and all I got was the GQ article (where he does'nt bring up Johnson at all actually and seems to be more upset with Disney then anything else, refering to them by name or using "they" rather then "him") along with some articules about him calling out racist fans. Nothing at all to be found about Boyaga accusing Johnson of discrimination.

No, I hav'nt.

And it also demonstrates A) that when I'm wrong I man up and admit it and B) that you are beating a dead horse.

I've said multipule times that I have, but whatever, you guys clearly don't care about what I'm actually saying as opposed to what you WISH I were saying.

1) that's how his attitude struck me, but upon re-reading the article it seems that his animosity is level towards Disney, not Johnson.
2) That was a question.
3) As I've said multipule times, I'm not required to hate Finn and TLJ just becuase Boyaga's experience on the film was not entirely positive.
4) I am sorry. What, would you rather me not be?
5) according to his own words his experience was not enjoyable, though I doubt it was wholly unenjoyable.

None of that is disingenuous and none of that is minimizing him or what he's talking about.

Again, as I said to PJ, your conflating two seperate issues.

One is that Boyega (for the reason you state above) feels discriminated against (and, I would argue when it comes to the fans who treated him poorly, justifiable. I cannot speak on the other issues do to lack of personal knowledge) and the other is that he was dissastified with the direction his character took in TLJ/wished he had been given the nuance that Kylo and Rey were.

No, that's you putting words in my mouth.

I see no evidence to support bais within the film. I'm not denying Boyega saw differently or claiming he was mistaken, just pointing out that I did'nt see what he saw.

I doubt he does - a re-read of the article shows that he never mentions Johnson and levels his issues towards Disney, not to mention I could find no evidence of Boyaga having personal issues with Johnson; issues with TLJ, most certainly, but that's not new news and he's never been shy about that, but no evidence of a beef with Johnson himself.

I can't recall any unprofessional behavior by Johnson on twitter (unless you count calling out toxic people and bullies unprofessional), and I'm not sure if you noticed but attacks by sexists and bot campigns against the film WERE indeed major issues. As for gender and racial issues, well I don't see the issues you see and all I can say is that I'm sorry you did'nt enjoy his film.

For what, exactly?

And I'm not a fan of grown men engaging in random personal campaigns against people who have done nothing to warrent hostility from them and have been nothing but polite and gentlemanly towards them. My mother raised me better then that and I apply those standards to the world, not just myself.

On a closer inspection Boyaga does'nt actually seem to have done that though, so it's fine; I can go back to fully respecting the man, rather then having to feel a tinge of disgust towards him for being so unprofessional and shadey.

 

I'm upset? You're the one who just ranted at neckbeards for some reason.

No you didn't mention names. You were generalizing (again) that all critics as just haters who want to hate. You've done this in the past and its dismissive.

You literally say that you "actually require evidence when I want to dunk on the guy". (your exact words). That 'actually require' part literally means you are dismissive of any evidence brought up so far. And that critics have posted their evidence for why they think a certain way, here on these forums, isn't actually evidence. Because it doesn't align with your own experience. Which you hold up as above all else.

No here is talking about a neckbeards living in their basement, except for you, but even so, you are outright dismissive of them (who aren't even here to make their own argument) as critics as well. Because of their supposed political affiliation, or because they're lobotomized lemmings.

And yes, maybe you're not communicating your points well. That might happen when you respond to every single sentence, in every single poster on this thread, who says anything critical at all about TLJ/RJ.

 

I'm no longer willing to give you the oxygen. I'll just put a couple of your choice comments out there and let the mods decide.

K2771991
"You don't try to throw your friends under a bus and paint them as part of some sort of conspiracy or whatever against you just becuase your mad that a role did'nt progress in the way you personally wanted it to. My friends would slap me across the face if I pulled some **** like that.".

K2771991
"God forbid I don't agree with some random dudes on TFA.net and some British guy I've never met whose salty becuase the fictional character he got paid more money then I'll ever see for playing did'nt was'nt dipicted 100 percent in line with how he wished or wanted".

K2771991
"Well, I call him bitter becuase that's what he seems to be. I can't think of a better word for his feelings then that".

K2771991
"It has to do with Boyaga, who as far as I'm concerned threw his co-stars (and friends) under the bus for the sake of using them as cudgles against Johnson (who never did anything to him to deserve said treatment anyway)".