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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Rian Johnson (Director Of TLJ) Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    You know I don’t like The Last Jedi, but I would seriously recommend a viewing of Brick; it’s very much like Knives Out in terms of Johnson being in his comfort zone and being able to roll from strength to strength within a movie.

    He’s simply got a knack for anti-heroes, more banal villains, and for playing with archetypes from crime fiction. He’s in his elements there.

    I think part of the clash over TLJ still comes down as much to whether or not you agree with the archetypes he’s assigning characters, or how well be blends with a space opera. It’s *not* his comfort zone, and I think that’s why his presentation is often weak in that film to its critics, whereas it usually isn’t in his other films.
     
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  2. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    I like Looper and I enjoyed Knives Out, but I don’t think Johnson is anything but an ‘ok’ filmmaker.... I will however be interested to see anything he makes going forward.
     
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  3. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Didn’t like Knives Out at all but I’d definitely watch a new SW film by Johnson. That seems to be the opposite opinion to most people given what I’ve seen.
     
  4. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I’m sure this has been mentioned before, but I think some TLJ critics are very intrigued to see a whole Johnson trilogy, if their primary criticism of TLJ is it’s lack of consistency with the rest of the saga. Such prob wouldn’t be an issue in this case.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I think there are some things he could do well, and if it’s not a story about navel-gazing and privileged-immature-adult-male angst, I would be interested.
     
  6. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    As much as I dislike pretty much all of Johnson's choices in TLJ, I thought Lucasfilm/Abrams created a poison chalice for whomever picked up Episode VIII. I think Johnson has a better chance of making a standalone SW film (or his own trilogy) than he has a middle film of someone else's trilogy.
     
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  7. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    *I* am, in part because of his technical skill even in TLJ, but also because of his greater storytelling skill outside of it.

    Give him characters and setting he can work from the ground up, and I think he’s a lot more likely to create a story much less likely to falter based off flawed understanding of previous films and characters.
     
  8. bstnsx704

    bstnsx704 Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 11, 2013
  9. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2017
    I find it hard to believe that Rian's Star Wars trilogy is still "happening" when he goes and signs a massive multi-film contract with one of Disney's biggest competitors.
     
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  10. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    That feels like about the right formula for a successful detective franchise - keep the central investigator standard, and allow maximum flexibility elsewhere. Johnson does his best work when he can play with whatever crime fiction archetypes and tropes that he wants.

    The really interesting question for Johnson himself is whether he goes more episodic - several stand alone stories - or tries being more serialized.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  11. bstnsx704

    bstnsx704 Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 11, 2013
    If I had to guess, I'm going to assume a more episodic structure with relatively unconnected installments (beyond Craig's Benoit Blanc in the central role, of course) – especially given his love of episodic detective shows like Columbo.
     
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  12. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    That’s what I’m thinking as well - serialization is more of a modern phenomenon, while Johnson is more enamored within the classic type of crime fiction.

    He seems more the type to pose a conundrum to his “Holmes counterpart” rather than try building up to a confrontation with a “Moriarty.”
     
  13. TheGhostOfZero

    TheGhostOfZero Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2016
    One of my main issues with TLJ was that it feels like Rian's face is plastered all over and throughout it. When all three ST films are watched together, TLJ feels very different and unnatural.
     
  14. Vympel

    Vympel Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2002
    Well - Rian uses a different, better cinematographer than JJ Abrams for one. Dan Mindel's work is garish and lots of sets in TFA are bathed in weird unnatural light sources that look nothing like any previous Star Wars movie. This reaches its nadir in TROS, where the entire movie is lost in a ghastly blue color correction fog and you can't see much of anything on say, Exegol.

    Steve Yedlin's work is simply superior. Compare the bridge of the Finalizer in TFA to the same bridge in TLJ.

    Of course, ANH, TESB and ROTJ are nothing alike each other in this respect either, for similar reasons, but none of them have the weird and off-putting Dan Mindel (TM) effect going on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  15. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013
    I’d agree with that...
     
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  16. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    I think/wonder if some of that garish color-correcting started with trying to make the lightsabers look more integrated with their environments. The PT lightsabers glow, but don't really cast color light on anything. The OT ones don't really either. The tech just didn't exist at that time to do so. The ST sabers basically cast color light all around them. Strong, vivid light. Maybe once you add that in to a scene, you gotta start color-correcting other scenes as well to match or blend in.

    Or...it could just be due to a larger industry style trend that we see in many movies today.

    I think TFA is an easier movie to watch, at least visually. It's not as exciting, or artistic, it's just there. TLJ might have better, more beautifully composed shots, but there's also some color-correcting going on as well that I find a bit harder to enjoy. The entire movie has a weird yellow-green-gray tone applied, along with dark scenes with over-exposed lights. I think the worst of it is the Crait battle. (Although the Snoke throne room fight is up there too) Some shots were filmed on location in Bolivia, but the rest of it just looks especially artificial, not only due to how it was shot, almost like a videogame, but the coloring in that scene is extreme in its own way.
     
  17. TheGhostOfZero

    TheGhostOfZero Jedi Master star 2

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    Sep 5, 2016
    I'm not denying the cinematography being top-notch, I'm speaking mainly about the feel and narrative of it. Why the characters make choices that blatantly go against logic on purpose, why they act so different from how they were in the previous film. It feels like a lot of liberties were taken to get from Point A to Point B.
     
  18. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    I tend to think that’s much more the result of the hurried production meaning that Johnson’s starting point wasn’t what came before his story, but rather the prototype material he was briefed on before TFA even really began serious production - rough sketches of characters and ideas. We know he eventually had TFA’s script and watched the dailies, but his starting point was likely very basic, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the conception of his story was born out of first impressions that became inaccurate as TFA was actually constructed.

    The “redundant” nature of much of TLJ, for instance, makes much more sense if Johnson’s starting point is on the concepts he perceives in the characters, rather than the actual substance of their stories in TFA. The “head-fake” on Kylo’ redemption happening again, for instance, more intuitively comes from someone reading RO being told Kylo has inner turmoil and conflict, but who hasn’t, been struck by the weight of him murdering Han the way he does. Likewise, Finn’s story just arriving at a purely superfluous point of him “seeing the big picture” finally emerges from someone who knows he has a “run away story arc first, but doesn’t see the substance of the story that would make the audience not question him as a Resistance member going forward. And finally, Rey’s parentage issue being retconned into an identity crisis instead of a longing for a family fits with someone who is aware of the mystery box, but not the way it plays into Rey’s emotional arc.

    And of course, the Luke arc feels very much like someone given the premise of “Luke in exile while bad stuff goes down” but disconnected from the importance of finding him in TFA, or from the way Rey’s story is basically constructed to where she *needs* Luke to train her.

    Johnson didn’t write the characters, well, in-character because he wasn’t introduced to them in their completed form, but in a concept level.
     
  19. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Seems to me like Luke was pretty much wide open, as long as it was explained why he had left and gone to the island. The cynical, grumpy old man bit was not preordained. That was all Rian Johnson, in spite of Mark Hamill's adamant objections. Don't see how RJ deserves any leeway on this one.

    Also, what's the excuse for characters like Rose, Holdo, and DJ? Obviously it's subjective, but where do these characters rank in terms of all time SW characters? IMO, all three are at the very bottom, in terms of characters with that much screen time.
     
  20. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
    What a weird way to attempt to craft a trilogy of films.
     
  21. Lobot's Wig

    Lobot's Wig Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 13, 2020
    It is certainly a far better looking movie than the two of Abrams that bookend it.
     
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  22. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    It wouldn’t be nearly as weird if the directors were working in close concert the entire time, or under the watchful eye of a single storytelling producer. Heck, it probably wouldn’t be as weird if Johnson were simply focusing more on what Abrams delivered before writing his own script.
     
  23. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    That's what's so weird about it. It'd be like if Kevin Feige would have let Edgar Wright make a stand-alone ANTMAN film in the midst of the MCU.
     
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  24. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Eh whatever so long as he’s doing what he likes why should I care
     
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  25. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 26, 2009