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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Rian Johnson (Director Of TLJ) Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    The similarity I noticed in both TLJ and Knives Out is that Johnson utilized ostensibly timeless genre frameworks (the space opera and the who-dunnit) as vehicles for presentism. Both films are interested in politics, fandom disputes, social media mindsets, and racial/gender stereotypes reflecting late 2010's American discourse. Neither is really about Skywalkers or solving murders, they are first and foremost editorials.

    In the case of Knives Out this wasn't a huge problem because it's a one-off film that nobody feels invested in when they first see it. If you like the politics (I myself thought they were disappointingly banal but not necessarily objectionable) then the core story should go over well enough with you. With TLJ however, the presentism feels bizarrely out of place and self absorbed for anyone expecting a contiguous sequel to TFA, let alone the OT/PT. Furthermore, the editorial positions themselves feel alternatively confused about liberal consensus and hostile to the very concept of fandom.
     
  2. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    [face_laugh]
     
  3. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    He basically saved the ST and delivered one of the best films in the saga. One of the rare filmmakers of the moment who balances auteur instincts with mainstream accessibility by way of genre deconstruction, expectation subversion and strong thematic exploration that gives two sides of any thematic exploration the opportunity to make their case before ultimately rendering his own personal verdict on the topic by way of his heroes.

    The best trilogy outside of the 1980s could be possible if they have the courage and conviction to give him the chance they felt he deserved as a riser in the art prior to the notorious backlash he received from many Star Wars fans.

    I now suspect he will not be given that opportunity and it’s a real shame because I suspect making a new dynamic from the ground up entirely could have resulted in something truly masterful in ways that even more than critics and film geeks could appreciate. Similar to the success he found with Knives Out where he better balanced crowdpleasing & genre dissection and expectation subversions for more people.

    Regardless, his magnificent work to move the Rey & Kylo, dynamic into more complicated terrain, his inspired use of the force, and his removal of Luke as a possible father, and the critically acclaimed Luke crisis of faith / guilt / dark side arc, all combined to rescue this trilogy from the safe choices that had robbed it of inspiration previously. JJ sought to move things back toward that safe and familiar terrain but the work was too powerful to ignore entirely and so it ended up inspiring JJ out of his own comfort zone resulting in a fascinating mix of fan service that also needed to build off of Johnson. Shockingly it works for many. Including me. JJ’s instincts to smooth off some of RJ’s sharpest corners make the work feel more pleasant overall and closer to Lucas’ work on ROTS that similarly mixed auteur concepts with plenty of fan service and fun.
     
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  4. ImpKnight

    ImpKnight Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Why did it need to be "saved" after TFA?

    I am legitimately flabbergasted to see someone say that.
     
  5. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Because we’d already had ANH. It needed to be saved from being a total corporate reboot of the OT exclusively that was exactly the same. Johnson ensured that it wouldn’t be. For that I will always be thankful.

    The prequels were notoriously divisive so your opinion would apply there. Even if they weren’t divisive to you. Still feel the same way about that statement despite being on the other end of a divide there? Most of the people I know in real life stopped being Star Wars fans after they came out entirely and only came back to anything that wasn’t the OT the past 5 years.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  6. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Problem is that there seems to be a faction of fans who grew up with the OT and don't really feel the PT as being their Star wars. and then there are people who grew up with the PT and Clone wars and to them, this is Star wars too. maybe even more than the OT in a sense.

    And then you have the Sequels which lean heavily on the OT. but many of those who grew up with the OT ain't fully sold of them and of course anyone who grew up with the PT may feel abit alienated by the ST, apart from maybe TROS.

    So i kinda don't think you can make divisive Star wars these days. the best effort ma be the Mandalorian.

    I notice alot of people who grew up with the OT. who hated the PT. they gloried the OT as this perfect set of films... since the ST came out, i notice they have pulled themselves away from Star wars. its like the OT has been tarnished abit and they need to distance themselves to lessen the break up. just watch Jeremy Jahns videos. the downward spiral transformation is shocking.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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  7. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    He recreated the same situations of the OT though, just changing the outcome.
     
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  8. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    There appears to have been a corporate mandate of some kind to soft reboot the OT but thanks fo his efforts he found the loop holes necessary to move it out of its safety zone in such a way that even Episode IX trying to take steps to move it back toward that terrain couldn’t fully do it, giving TROS a mix closer to VI, VIII, III and Indiana Jones and through that mix becoming unique enough in its own right to also provide meaningful value to not only the ST but the saga as a whole.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
    indydefense likes this.
  9. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    The Last Jedi is the only worthwhile film in the sequel trilogy. While The Force Awakens is fun (and seeing Harrison Ford back in action is great), it failed to advance the story or justify its existence. TROS is a disaster. I'm thankful that Rian Johnson was given the reigns one movie. He delivered.
     
  10. DominusNovus

    DominusNovus Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    What is important is that he'll never be allowed to do his own trilogy or even step foot near any Star Wars material in any creative capacity. Disney does not want controversial, and even if you like TLJ, you can't deny it was controversial.
     
  11. indydefense

    indydefense Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2019
    Because TFA was a terrible, poorly-thought out soft reboot that deserved to be exposed for the con job it was. Rian took lemons and made lemonade. TLJ then forced JJ to be creative for the first time in years with TROS.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  12. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    [​IMG]

    The most original aspect beyond the Finn arc, which I love, was what might happen if two powerful force users enter the other’s minds and see both the light side in them and the dark. Thankfully, RJ felt the same way and built off of those elements while also introducing a leadership arc for Poe that culminated nicely in TROS.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  13. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    The Force Awakens does have its moments with Harrison Ford. In comparison to The Last Jedi, as a film, it is not a comparison imo.

    JJ Abrams had unlimited money for this film and made a film with a lot of shiny toys but no heart.
     
  14. Vicarious Fan

    Vicarious Fan Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2013
    you know that Empire was divisive when it came out right?


    yeah to me it's a perfect weird little star wars scene. it's the exact kind of thing that George Lucas would have written and you can tell Mark Hamil absolutely loves that scene by his performance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  15. Miles Lodson

    Miles Lodson Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 1998
    I don’t think the PT was divisive because of the writing. I think TLJ was.

    @Vicarious Fan what evidence is there to support your claim that ESB was divisive when it came out?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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  16. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Rian Johnson delivered my favorite Star Wars movie of all time. Gave my favorite character a beautiful redemptive arc that gives more depth to the character than his previous three films together. And inspired JJ to raise his game insignificantly in order to give a satisfying conclusion to the Saga. Other than Lucas he's the best filmmaker this franchise has had.
     
  17. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I can only imagine what it must be like sometimes for you in the moderator meetings. So outnumbered. Although, unless I’m mistaken... it does seem that maybe @A Chorus of Disapproval enjoyed TROS. If so, that’s a nice development!
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  18. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    It doesn't bother me. People have different opinions. It is what it is. I love all my fellow mods even if they're dead wrong. :p
     
  19. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    The mods to a great job here. And honestly... I’ve neither detected or suspected any bias impacting any forms of moderation at all since TROS’ release.

    That said, I do hope that the next mod selected someday hopefully is a big fan of the ST overall now that the tale is actually complete.
     
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  20. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    One moment i loved was Rey telling Luke shes going with or without him. She gets in the falcon, chewie jumps to hyperspace, stops to shoot rey out in an escape pod, and then back into lightspeed. Visually spectacular. This film just heightens from there.

    How did people not like this film?

    Lukes own words on the Force?! Cmon now.
     
  21. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Hey it is worth a shot. Better than all of us getting banned :p
     
  22. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Yes indeed.

    It appears Mod Squad basically consists of our glorious moderators throwing rocks at each other over Rian Johnson... Occasionally they might get round to making the odd moderator decision but 99% of the time they've got their feet up on the chaise lounge, drinking booze, listening to Pink Floyd (or Justin Bieber if its one of the younglings) arguing about Ri-Anne and TLJ! ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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  23. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    We all agree that you do a fine enough job as a moderator that we can overlook the fact that your taste in nearly everything is abhorrent to the point of criminal.
     
  24. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    We'll always have Doctor Who! [:D]
     
  25. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003