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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Rian Johnson (Director Of TLJ) Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Does this mean you don’t like TROS already @A Chorus of Disapproval ? It seemed you like it before and I thought you two also had that in common.
     
  2. Vicarious Fan

    Vicarious Fan Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2013

    while it is harder to find reviews and fan opinions at the release of Empire some do still exist. Hello Greedo did a good job finding some of these and complied them here.



    Basically there was a division between the fans. Some wanted it to be more of ANH ie a fun space adventure and didn't like that Empire was dark and soap opera like.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  3. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    "We'll always have Paris" is a reference to a good film. I am not surprised your TLJ loving self did not recognize it. :p. Haha jk

    TROS is a godsend of a film. It is the Baby Yoda of the Sequel Trilogy.
     
  4. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Familiar with the reference. ;)

    https://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-928#post-55932403

    From August of last year... Seems even more appropriate now actually. :D
     
  5. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    I remember seeing TESB but I wasn't really old enough to critically evaluate it or compare it to ANH. I can imagine though that it would have been very divisive. Imagine releasing ANH and TESB for the first time in the internet age, there would have been absolute bedlam.
     
    Vicarious Fan likes this.
  6. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Rian Johnson told Deadline he’s thinking about making a sequel to Knives Out.
     
  7. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2005
    I was young, but my memory of the 80s was that the overall critical reviews were not really even known to the public the way they are now. You had your local one or two papers and they had reviews, and then you had Siskel and Ebert, and that was about all you knew in terms of critical reviews. It wasn't like today where everyone knows the RT scores. I don't remember there being any real debate over whether Empire was a good movie. I do remember people thinking it wasn't as good as ANH. That sort of changed later.
     
  8. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    I would love that!
     
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  9. zackm

    zackm Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    He’s been talking about making a sequel since before it was released.
     
  10. Vicarious Fan

    Vicarious Fan Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Hope so between Knives Out and Logan Lucky I have come to realize that Daniel Craig is one of the best actors out there today and deserves far more work.
     
  11. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    But he kinda made it seem like it’s his next movie.
     
  12. ladygrey45

    ladygrey45 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2015
    I saw what he tried to do and I hated it like war is bad we get it, like war bad on both sides but saying the rebels and the empire are on the same side pissed me off this is Star Wars I don’t want that kind of storytelling I loved loved loved knives out and I think he really should only do original works I don’t think he has the right tone for Star Wars.
    Yeah I liked Empire it was a great film I love the soap opera I just didn’t like Rians take or his writing it worked in knives out and I wanna check his original works it absolutely did not work in Star Wars. It was a good movie it was a bad Star Wars movie, some scenes were good and I’ll see how I feel after my rewatch but yeah the dialogue is so ugh.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
    DominusNovus likes this.
  13. Tyrian

    Tyrian Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2000
    Lots of people share the blame for the mess of the ST, but Rian Johnson most assuredly has a special place among them to shoulder his share.
     
  14. Gerak

    Gerak Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2019
    This. Sabotaging the middle movie with a terrible script and meandering plotting is largely why the ST was so bad
     
  15. Tyrian

    Tyrian Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2000
    I'd describe it as: He spat on the narrative/setup of the prior film (TFA) and then gave the middle finger to the subsequent film (EP IX) by giving them a hopelessly bad state of narrative affairs to somehow wrap up in one more movie.

    He disrespected and poisoned both ends of the trilogy spectrum, both before and after his movie.

    How Kathleen (and Iger) let him get away with doing this, is beyond me. They all shoulder the blame.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  16. PendragonM

    PendragonM Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2018
    When is this “Empire was divisive” narrative going to die? I was there - the movie was in theaters the whole summer and a huge hit. There were critics grumbling - most of the same critics who grumbled about Star Wars. If the TLJ detractors are considered a “vocal minority,” let me tell you a little secret about ESB detractors...
     
  17. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002

    Having just watched all 3 x ST films back-to-back-to-back they all come together much better than their critics claim.

    Johnson built off of TFA from a unique perspective different than most fans that had Rey re-considering Kylo Ren’s offer time train her and what she had seen in his mind, and the force connection she sensed between them and later experiences in how they can communicate, to reinterpret what Maz told her about the saber bringing someone back to be Ben Solo instead of Luke Skywalker. She sees glimpses of Ben Solo in TLJ but realizes he’s unworthy of the saber and that Kylo Ren is still the dominant personality there and takes the saber back. At the end of TROS he nods as Ben Solo and she knows he’s finally worthy of it and that she was right. It was him who was meant to come back and she uses their bond to give him his ancestral saber and he kicks ass with it and helps save her.

    The second act setbacks were that Luke would not save the day for everyone, the heroes seemed further from victory than before, and Ben seemed further down the dark path and away from possible redemption, and Rey seemingly had less answers to her past and we to her place in all this. It frustrates for those reasons but then TROS comes in to extend the narrative function of the second act with a cliffhanger that admittedly would have worked better at the end of VIII with the reveal that the Emperor was behind it all. Then many of those second act setbacks we’d hoped would be overcome ultimately are one by one. When the next final stand happens individual people do show up. While Luke won’t be the hero of the saga he does play an important part in the wayfinders and in motivating Rey on her journey and assisting her. This question that had become harder for many to imagine being answered is answered.
    [​IMG]

    It all comes together much better than it perhaps has any right to once previous head canon expectations are dropped and it’s watched to see where things connect in new ways. Regardless of initial intent.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  18. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Pretty sure the “little boy” quote from George Lucas was made after we had already seen The Phantom Menace and actually knew what he was talking about. That’s why it doesn’t work for Kylo. Maybe Rian Johnson assumed we would all automatically see Ben Solo.
     
  19. Miles Lodson

    Miles Lodson Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 1998
    It was not divisive. I was there too. Massive hit, everyone talking about it, blew peoples mind, toys flying off the shelves.
     
  20. Darth Damo

    Darth Damo Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 1999
    Yeah.. but what about the million plot holes and awful story? This is the most emperor's new clothes post I have ever read..
     
  21. JeanNo

    JeanNo Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    I couldn't express it better.

    TLJ is hands down the best of the 3, IMO.
    TFA has a nice retro feel but still is too much a copy of ANH. 2nd position.
    TROS is a mess.
     
  22. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    I wasn't there but my mother was and she said it was like nothing you'd seen before. Just pure joy and awe and everyone kept wanting to watch it over and over. Absolutely no divisiveness.
     
  23. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    In all of these areas, including contrivances, it’s all comparable to other moments in the saga history. There may be slightly more but they’re in line with saga history for me. I don’t have much issue suspending disbelief in Star Wars and turning the clock back to being a kid again. It just comes naturally as soon as that opening scroll begins. I’m not coming at it from a point of cynicism or sarcasm for lack of realism unless it’s egregious for me in ways Star Wars has never been before and it rarely was in the ST.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  24. Miles Lodson

    Miles Lodson Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 1998
    Then in all seriousness, don’t let us spoil your enjoyment. Our distaste for the ST shouldn’t impact your enjoyment of it, right?
     
  25. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    It doesn’t. If it did I would have left here a long time ago. I know my limits though. I don’t just surround myself non-stop in negativity, sarcasm or cynicism related to a magical fantasy world exclusively because I think almost nothing that’s aimed primarily at 12 year olds with space magic involved could escape being made fun in an environment under those conditions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
    Eternal_Jedi likes this.