ST Rian Johnson (Director Of TLJ) Discussion Thread

I concede that casting 40 and up is not safe at all. And they continue to cast older (Dawson and Sackhoff are in their 40s, Morrison and Olyphant in their 50s)

 

Right? It feels uniquely anti-ageist, especially as Disney primarily produces content for youngins. I’m surprised someone didn’t demand that a teenager be at the center of it, somehow. That’s partly why I respect Kennedy so much. I really think she’s a uniquely creative studio head.

 

True and their other announced (and one rumored) shows are all centered around characters of that age. Cassian (Luna is 40), Obi Wan (McGregor is 49), Ahsoka (Dawson is 40). yes, I'm googling everyone's age right now ha ha. They could young it up with Sabine Wren and Ezra Bridger if they come to live action too. But that's still overwhelmingly 40+ Disney Plus.

 

It's moreso that I'm arguing against the notion that JJ didn't set up for anything other than what RJ did. He did set up other options. Options that would have been far less divisive among the fanbase. To say that JJ left RJ with a depressed hermit Luke as the only option is simply false. RJ simply chose the route he did because he wanted to subvert expectations. Some people enjoyed it, yes, but it definitely was not the only route he could've done. "First Jedi Temple" hinted at possible interesting lore, and it went nowhere.

 

The nothingness of the First Jedi Temple was like the “the grail is just a wooden cup” thing in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. I get it. But it’s still one of the most disappointing story elements of the ST for me. There was so much potential to dig deep into this interesting mythology.

 

It would have been just as logical if Luke had gone to the island with whatever young students were left to continue the Jedi training in secrecy where Kylo and the FO couldn't find them. What RJ came up with was not inevitable at all. Luke could have easily been doing something proactive and heroic on that island that didn't involve trashing the Jedi Order and all of their accomplishments.

 

The problem with this is Han's dialogue in TFA that Luke blamed himself for the fall of his new Jedi Order

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HAN He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible... He walked away from everything.
FINN Do you know what happened to him?
HAN There're a lot of rumors. Stories. The people who knew him the best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple.

Well, Han did say he felt responsible and walked away from everything...so you have a point. But I really think that if Luke had decided to continue training Jedi in secret on the island in order to evade Kylo and the FO, that would imply, or at least allow for, a cover story. The cover story Han would be repeating IMO would be completely within the logic of what's happening, whether Han knew it was a cover story or not. So it would require an explanation, in terms of why Han said he walked away from everything, point taken.

 

@Obironsolo agreed - and I would have been ok with RJ basically ignoring that particular setup in TFA.

 

I partially agree that further exploration of the first Jedi temple on Ahch-To was a bit of a missed opportunity, but I think it's ultimately better for it to suggest history (like the Prime Jedi) rather than having characters explicitly explore it. The same goes for Exegol. Both temples could serve as reliable anchors for future origin stories.

 

Definitely. They half touched on what I wanted to happen with the Force Projections / Communication / Teleportation ideas. I had in mind a chase movie to find the Temple, because the knowledge there was that the Ancient Jedi had discovered how to do something that Yoda hinted at, and that they could become “luminous beings” moving in and out of the Force at will. An intergalactic teleport.

My cliffhanger would have been a reversal of The Last Jedi, with Kylo getting his hands on this knowledge, and it would have been him who vanished into the Force with a smile, now almost unstoppable like a God, able to re-materialise wherever he wanted.

 

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but it recently occured to me that Johnson's movie is full of people who don't get things the first time.

Ackbar: We need to do what?

Holdo: A stormtrooper and a who are doing what?

Poe: Give it to me one more time, simpler.

Finn: A battering ram cannon.
Poe: A what now?

 

I'm a fan of RJ's film. I know a lot of folks aren't, but I loved it. But I am genuinely bewildered that DLF said he wrote them into a corner.
First of all, let's look at TFA.
A lot of people argued that Rey was 'the word we will not say'. RJ rather cleverly showed that both Kylo and Rey shared a uniquely powerful aptitude for the Force. Which meant that both of them were powerful even before training - training honed their skills, like polishing a diamond makes it look pretty but doesn't change the nature of what it is. But he also showed Rey making mistakes. She only just managed to beat her opponents on the Supremacy, and actually suffered an injury, albeit minor. She was shown practising with the lightsabre, which meant that she was learning how to wield it - and even then she almost flattened two of the guardians!
We didn't know exactly what had happened that Luke felt responsible for, but for him to walk away from his family, and everything he stood for, it had to be something big. So showing he was inadvertently responsible, in part, for what happened to Ben Solo was a good explanation. Watching TFA again, the look of dismay on his face at the end showed that the last thing he wanted was to be found. Why? RJ showed us why. It worked.
RJ tried his hardest to make everyone more of a shade of grey, from DJ revealing that the FO and the Resistance buying their weapons from the same dealers to the allies of Leia ignoring her desperate plea for help. He killed off Snoke because everyone kept moaning that he was an hopeless villain. He developed Finn from the comic character he was in TFA to a committed rebel. His role in the next film was to literally'rouse the troops', just as Poe matured from a trigger happy flyboy into a leader in waiting. He also developed Rey and Kylo's relationship from antagonists into two people who were two halves of the same coin, but driven apart because they wanted different things. He paved the way for a third chapter that could have been completely different from anything seen before in SW.

Instead, they listened to the fandom meance.

 

Nice post: I couldn't agree more.
Episode IX was a disaster on every way.
But we will always have THE LAST JEDI to remember that it is still possible to direct a good movie in the STAR WARS universe. In my case, Episode VIII is the real conclusion of the Saga.

 

Rey was better in 7 and 9. And she is the protagonist.

Find me something from TFA or TROS Rey says as cringey as the "I like this!" moment. That was like the first time we saw her in 25 minutes or so, and it breaks immersion.

Kylo was creepier in 8. Luke was out of character.

 

Did they, though? Did Luke do something amazing and epic to redeem himself in 9? Nope. Was he finally a teacher to Rey in 9? Nope. Was Rey not overpowered in 9? Hell, nope. Was she a real Skywalker? Nope.

So who did they listen to in the end? Noone really.

 

Exactly.
The fandom menace were furious with TLJ Luke, in particular they were angry at the scene where he threw away the lightsabre.
And what does he do in TLJ - "a Jedi's weapon should be treated with respect."
But....that was all he did.
He was a teacher to her up to a point, but by then Rey no longer needed one.(sigh)
They couldn't make her a Skywalker by blood, because they'd very firmly established that Luke was an old style, celibate Jedi, and that Leia and Han had only one child, Ben. So they made her an 'honourary' Skywalker.
In short, TROS didn't please anyone.

 

You can’t say Luke was out of character when we haven’t seen him in 30 years.

You can’t say that about any character under that circumstance.

Edit: I’m not sure why everyone uses the lightsaber catch in TROS saying it spits in the face of TLJ, amongst all the other obvious choices: Rose, Holdo maneuver, etc.

If anything, it’s a callback to the scene but also shows Luke’s growth at the end of TLJ, where now he’s achieved enlightenment as a force ghost and no longer spiteful like he was at the beginning of TLJ.

 

Luke ('perhaps she will') was in character when he ignited the lightsaber in the hut. We don't know what he saw, but there was a woman involved. She can be heard during the mindprobe, towards the end. That's what made Luke react.

'Perhaps she will' was Luke+Vader+Leia. Vader read Luke's feelings (sister!); but Ben (that is, 'Vader') was sleeping this time, and it was Luke the one doing the mind reading.
So maybe Luke saw something from the past, and that something from the past appeared because of Luke in its turn. So maybe she knew her, and that would have been a part of the plan. In the Kylo Ren comic, Snoke's voice tells Ben after the hut: 'we knew it might happen'. But Snoke's voice was Palpatine.

Snoke seduced Ben. Was Luke seduced? Darth Talon became the son (Kylo) but maybe she was kept as an independent character. For example this, from 2013; not really concept art, but a storyboard. Storyboard for what? 'You opened yourself to Dark Side for a pair of pretty eyes'.


After the hut, he was also in character...Leia sensed the death of Ben at the end of the jedi path, and Luke did more than sensing it. It was his failure, so it was his responsability; but he was his nephew, and he could not do it. And Ben would not turn; unlike Vader, he was not conflicted about Luke. He even mocks ROTJ Luke when he says before the duel 'have you come here to forgive, to save my soul?'
Him 'walking away from everything' was also him rejecting ROTS Obi-Wan ('He has become a very great threat[...]I will do what I must'). Luke became a jedi precisely after not killing Vader; that is, family first.

Then TLJ Rey appeared and he finally impersonated ROTS Obi-Wan...in order to deceive Kylo.
But he was an hologram, and that was Luke being, in fact, ANH Obi-Wan. The others escaped. Peace and purpose.

 

I don’t think to the audience it showed Luke responsible nor partially responsible for Kylo’s switch. He obviously had those thoughts that Luke picked up on while he slept. (Whether TROS revealed these were Sheev’s thoughts being sent to Ben that Luke read, is another thing altogether).

I just think Luke himself feels guilt and responsibility. And he took it personally. Even though he shouldn’t. But he’s only human.

 

I think if the movie wanted me to understand that something between ROTJ and then had occured to develop Luke into that place, it could've showed me. It didn't. Why should I assume what the movie doesn't develop?

 

We already know something DID occur (or had to occur) during time from TFA alone.

Why else would Han and Leia’s child/Luke’s nephew and student join the First Order and become a villain.