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Amph Riding the lightning - the JC heavy metal thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ender Sai, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Don't reopen the terrible old Metaltropolis, it's dead and nobody wants that mods! :p

    Welcome to the JC metal thread, where Satan is just tops.

    Two points of discussion - Loudwire and Rolling Stone both have a best of the year list of metal albums. One has Babymetal and the other is Rolling Stone, so they're both a mix of good and crap.

    http://loudwire.com/best-metal-albums-2016/
    http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/20-best-metal-albums-of-2016-w454251

    Personally I would dispute having Metallica ahead of Megadeth this year, and flush the manufactured crap of babymetal away.

    Cult of Luna + Julie Christie = yes though.

    The other one - LostOnHoth doesn't understand drone music, like Sunn0))) or Kev-Mas_Colcha's band. ITT we explain it to him.

    Lost - it's just dense and heavy and forboding atmosphere that if done well is heavily than Satan's dirty underwear. If it's not, it's pretentious arse.

    Start with Sunn 0))) + Boris's Etna. Boris do the drumming but it's so disconnected the purpose of drumming as to be classed as something else.
     
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  2. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Does this thread consider Led Zeppelin as metal?
     
  3. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    That is why you fail. :yoda:

    Seriously though, not metal.
     
  4. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012

    My response:

     
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  5. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Okay you are right. Zeppelin are heavy metal in the same way that U2 are punk. Inspired, shared sentiments, some bits here and there,some similar iconography…..but not the same thing.

    Seriously though, Sabbath, Zeppelin, Deep Purple, even early Priest, these are the firsts. Firsts are the prototypes so they're not going to be so solidified into a genre. I really hear hard blues rock or folk when I listen to early Zeppelin, not what heavy metal would become later on during the 80s.

    They are probably my favorite band of all time though.
     
  6. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    new signature; i have survived my entire life being wrong about music
     
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  7. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012
    I've never understood why Zep can't be considered metal, they're closer to it than AC/DC.

    Why mention AC/DC?

    Not joking here, but why do some people refer to AC/DC as metal? There are SEVERAL stores in Melbourne who list AC/DC in their heavy metal section (JB Hi-Fi) being one of them.
     
  8. vin

    vin Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 1999
    Point Given

    Please lock this redundant thread. We're already discussing this in the pic thread.
     
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  9. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    I dunno, why mention either of them when regardless of fixed genre definitions they would be considered tangential at best to "metal" as an extant musical movement as understood today other than to try and force a really dumb argument rather than engage with the proposed initial discussions?

    Anyway, Ender mentioned Babymetal being on Loudwire's list - the explanation there is probably trying to make the sort of nerds who are into their music feel better about the authenticity of their listening experience because people are too insecure to admit they like bland J-Pop as long as the instrumentation is distinctive. Not like the list is that hot anyway, they put Ihsahn's latest at #9 and it's easily the weakest album he's ever put out.

    As for Rolling Stone, they're Rolling Stone.
     
  10. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    I hate Babymetal.

    Don't get me wrong, the trve kvlt idiots who bleed out of their ears and arses if someone like Myrkur comes along are a stain on the scene but Babymetal has three J-Poptarts saying "oh we hadn't heard of metal before the band" which is basically an insult that demands blood or more Abbath.

    They're awful, there's nothing redeemable about their art and at least Amalie Bruun has always wanted to do BM. The Ex-Cops were a means to an end.


    DebonaireNerd, you must be this <_____> kvlt to post here. You are not even a bit kvlt. Sorry.
     
  11. Boba_Fett_2001

    Boba_Fett_2001 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2000
    So both lists placed The Violent Sleep of Reason in their top 3. I mentioned in the favourite albums of 2016 thread that I was disappointed by it and I'm still quite surprised so many people love it. I'm a big Meshuggah fan but I just could not get into the album and I must have given it at least a dozen listens. Clockworks and Nostrum are amazing but the rest just felt, I don't know, monotonous? I'm also not the biggest fan of Jens' vocals on these last two albums. I miss the vocals he had on Catch Thirtythree and Obzen.

    Did you check it out, Ender?
     
  12. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012
    I like Motorhead and Metallica.

    That's about it though.

    Do I get a pass?
     
  13. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

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    Jul 13, 2008
    Oh, don't get me wrong, we're definitely on the same page regarding the Babymetal question, such as it is. I'm just trying to think about what the incentive for Loudwire to put it on the list at all might be and "reassurance for J-pop fans in denial" is about all I've got.
     
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  14. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Not yet BF2K1. Tom sent me down an awesome rabbit hole with TCQ but I hadn't gone down any others of late. I don't mind Meshuggah but I feel like there's a point where they weren't as vital to me as they used to be? I mean, it's kind of the curse of being the forerunner - you have that pioneer status, but other bands can come along and take your new way of looking at music and go further. Neurosis pioneer post-metal, but it takes ISIS after Celestial to really kick the doors open for Cult of Luna and Rosetta etc.

    I will at some point though. I noticed one of the lists also had Dillinger Escape Plan. I loved that album with Baby's First Coffin - Miss Machine maybe? - but I just don't love them as much any more. I get more out of BTBAM.


    DebonaireNerd - no because without using Google you don't know who Euronymous was.
     
  15. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012

    This is true.
     
  16. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

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    Jul 13, 2008
    You should go read Lords of Chaos, by which I mean do not read Lords of Chaos and instead read Black Metal: Evolution of the Cult.
     
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  17. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2000
    OK for the sake of full disclosure, I am 48 years old and discovered metal in 1984. I started with Deep Purple, Zeppelin, Rainbow, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden etc and then moved on to Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Anthrax, Testament, Exodus etc etc. Those are my roots. The top 20 lists posted by Ender in the OP reinforce the basic fact that I have lost touch. I have not even heard of about 15 bands on those lists let alone heard their music or even know what sub genre they belong to. So before I comment any further I will listen to some of these bands.

    My favourite band at the moment is Opeth. Love the new Megadeth though. New Metallica has about four good tracks and the rest is utter crap. The best thing about the new album TBH is the deluxe edition has Rainbow covers. However, I just can't stand the drumming. It is awful and has been ever since Lars became a lazy **** and no longer allowed himself to be pushed. When he was pushed, he did great things, but those days are over and now his style of drumming just makes me cringe.

    Seconf point, WTF is drone metal?? It is ****ing awful ****. I have nothing but admiration and respect for musicians who have a crack at their chosen field of music (and so I'm not attacking Kev here in anyway) but honestly WTF is this about? It's like a genre has been created for people who want to perform but have yet to master the basic rudiments of their instrument. The absence of drums is telling in this regard..it indicates that the need to play within a time signature is beyond the skill-set of the performers...so they just do withoout it. It seems to me that this genre may disappear once the performers have learned four chords and a few scales?

    To me, metal is about the ferocity of the music. It's that ferocity that makes you screw up your face in a grimace and pound out all traces of aggression until you are just drained. This state of perfection is just not achievable without drums. And I'm not talking super fast stuff either. Speed generally detracts from the ability to project power and so whilst you have drummers like Inferno from Behemoth who can play ridiculously fast, he ends up just tapping the drums gently and so there is no POWER.

    For me, the best kind of doom metal is Candlemass or St Vitus.

    Oh and Zep is not metal.
     
  18. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    So you're not kvlt, just a Melbourne hipster with a Coldplay collection.

    Here's the thing. Metal is amazing. Metal mostly appeals to people because of how metal is it. That is factual. You know none of it. There’s a lot of great metal out there, and some of it will make you feel like a spike-covered footsoldier of the apocalypse using a bowie knife to carve a pentagram into the stomach of an archangel, but it’s doubtful that you have any of those records. You should buy all the actual metal you can. Metal makes you feel this way. Sure, you crank some tunes that make you feel like some sort of clock or Goop brand juicing diet or that everything really is yellow, but I’m not sure that’s as satisfying as the sensation that the cast of Mad Max: Fury Road will at any given moment come launching out of your urethra. When I put on metal, that’s what I’m looking for nine times out of ten. Your music just does not deliver this.

    EDIT: That ^ was obvs at DebonaireNotMetal.

    LostOnHoth, it's actually a lot harder than you give credit for. You're creating discernable melody, through tonal shifts, harmonics and other devices to create the same kind of wall of sound that a synth or string section of an orchestra might do.
     
  19. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012
    I just did a google search and actually realised I in fact have known a little of what you've been discussing. At an old job I worked, I had colleagues who were massive Mayhem fans. Some of the stories I heard made for some of my quickest shifts.
     
  20. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    LostOnHoth
    There are literally a hundreds things to unpack from that post.

    The first is: you're 48?

    Second, are you saying you dislike just this particular type of music due to what you say is an added aggression added with drums?
     
  21. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012

    I am NOT a hipster. I shave, dress well, and I don't own a vinyl player.

    The rest is true :cool:
     
  22. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2000
    I don't know. I listened to a good chunk of Kev's albums and suffered through about 5 minutes of that Sunn 0))) track but I just can't take to it. I know I sound old but there's really nothing there for me to like.
     
  23. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

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    Jul 13, 2008
    So I think you've actually provided a good fulcrum for drone here with your second paragraph, sort of - it's about atmosphere rather than power and ferocity. I've always thought it was actually a lot closer to ambient than any sort of metal because of this. You mention time signatures (or rather, drone's general lack thereof) but those get in the way of the ambiance, so they're not worth it. Think sound collages or the most out there ends of noise music.

    Now that said I don't really go for drone myself either (Sunn O)))'s Black One excepted, I really enjoy that album) but... yeah, basically none of the stuff you're looking for in metal is even a goal there, so of course you're going to be at odds with it.
     
  24. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2000
    Yes old. I dislike it because it just sounds like people who can't play the guitar trying to play the guitar with lots of distortion. There's no musicianship. Look there may be great skill in sounding like you have no skill but it's over my head.
     
  25. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2000
    Yeah I think it is just a little too odd for me. More power to those that play it though. It's just not my cup of black tea.