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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Rise Of Skywalker - Chosen One Prophecy

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by jedilord27, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Reading this post gave me a seizure. I can't feel the left side of my face.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  2. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    You added 'I can't feel the left side of my face'. Charming, to the last.
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  3. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 10, 2011
    I realized it a few minutes after. I was still recovering.
     
  4. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2001
    In reference to Sith Alchemy cheating death:

    How about Force healing?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  5. Dark Ferus

    Dark Ferus Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    The Dyad and Rey/Kylo make Luke and especially Anakin like how Amy said Indiana Jones was in the Big Bang Theory episode "The Raiders Minimization".

     
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  6. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013
    Ouch...
     
  7. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    Well, the force healing...heals. Doesn't seem directly related to the creation of life, or to the dyad. In my mind, the force healing is the jedi version of the force lightning. In the film, healing appears first, and the lightning after that. The sith were a jedi sect once, and both are 'similar in almost every way', according to Palpatine.
     
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  8. Rogue Knight

    Rogue Knight Jedi Knight star 1

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    Feb 4, 2020
    There's been a lot of criticism thrown at the ST for undoing a lot of the PT-OT. One major point of criticism involves the return of Palpatine and how it undoes and ignores the prophecy of Anakin bringing balance to the force which of course is a central theme of the PT and OT.

    I would argue that even with Palpatine returning, Anakin still brought balance to the force, which in turn paves to way for the events in the ST. During the PT-OT era, the force was out of balance due to the concentration of dark side force amassed by Palpatine. In other words, Palpatine's dark side energy created a black hole that threw the force out of balance. This clouded the PT era Jedi's judgement and ability to use the force to keep the dark side at bay and ultimately led to their downfall and the rise of the Empire.

    When Darth Vader turns back to the light side and "kills" Palpatine he destroys this dark side chasm and returns balance to the force. This ultimately allows "the force to awaken" leading to the rise of Rey and the awesome power clashes (balance) that we see between her and Kylo. Even though Palpatine returns in the ST (through unnatural dark side arts), the force is never again fully out of balance. He is never able to amass the power he had prior to Endor, and as such Rey his able to rapidly grow with the force and become a conduit by which all the Jedi can help destroy Palpatine once and for all.
     
  9. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2001
    I roughly agree with this. Palpatine was genuinely killed by Darth Vader. His cheat involved an imperfect and slow transfer of his consciousness to a new body on Exogol. This is why Luke says there was balance "for many years." The balance began to wobble a bit, apparently, not long before Ben was turned to the dark side by Snoke. This was about five years before the chronological setting of The Force Awakens. Prior to that we know Palpatine was able to issue orders (to Ochi, according to Kylo Ren) but he seems to have been very weak. He needed to have Snoke go around doing his dirty work. Prior to his rejuvenation I don't think the Emperor was even able to leave Exegol.

    With regard to Rey, she is strong for three reasons.
    1. Palpatine ancestry (high midi count)
    2. Dyadic connection to Kylo Ren (gains power and techniques from contact)
    3. The restored balance has not slipped very much and light siders are very powerful

    Every Jedi in the first six films is operating under a cloud because of the imbalance in the Force. Now that this is gone, Ben Solo and Rey showed uncanny raw power.

    I think the way power just "slips out" from Rey is a personal specific trait to her Force connection. Not all strongly sensitive characters have that. But this mostly happens when she is contending with Kylo Ren, her dyad partner.
     
  10. Rogue Knight

    Rogue Knight Jedi Knight star 1

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    Feb 4, 2020
    I agree with your take and am glad to see other fans that are generally on the same page.
     
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  11. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    THREAD MERGE.
     
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  12. Palp_Faction

    Palp_Faction Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    200% agree. Runes, tea leaves and visions can only tell prophets so much and in reality Palpatine being hurled down the shaft by the Chosen One was just the beginning of the destruction of the Sith. I just wish this had been addressed in TROS as it would have quietened a lot of the naysayers screaming about how the movie ruined Anakin's role of the Chosen One. I must admit, I was one of them until I went away and thought about it. Now I really like the movie as my take is exactly the same as yours.
     
  13. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    I like to think Anakin did fulfill the prophecy but Rey and all the Jedi are left cleaning up Palpatine's dark leftover mess because he's just that dang evil and cheated death unnaturally. OG Palpatine is straight up destroyed and then there's this evil darkside half-life residue creature we see in Rise of Skywalker. The man did like a backup plan! I've said before I'm like 80% satisfied and 20% annoyed (which is a win) that the best explanation that we get is him repeating the line from ROTS "The dark side of the Force is a path to many abilities some consider to be unnatural". Like it's a great callback (or foreshadowing if you're viewing the movies numerically) and it IS technically an answer - it was because of the dark side and it was unnatural. And even though The Contingency isn't mentioned, in Aftermath: Empire's End there's a very long plan set up in the event of his death. This was probably one of them we haven't seen until now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  14. Palp_Faction

    Palp_Faction Force Ghost star 4

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    Feb 3, 2002
    It makes the Contingency make a lot more sense now.
     
  15. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 13, 2014
    Lucas contradicted his own notion of bringing balance to the Force with the Mortis arc in the Clone Wars. The father was the force. His children, twins, we're the balance. One light, one dark. The prophecy was always interpreted by point of view. The Sith felt balance was by eliminating the Jedi, and the Jedi felt it was by eliminating the Sith. Based upon the Mortis arc, there was balance in the prequel trilogy, just both sides were so blinded by their own ideology, neither could see it.

    The destruction of the Jedi took the away the balance. Luke's power as a Jedi grows not only from lineage, but as needed by the Force to correct the balance. Anakin is redeemed and destroys the Sith, and the force is out of balance again. Hence the rise of Snoke and Kylo. Luke disconnects himself from the Force, and the balance is lost again until it manifests itself in Rey.

    Rey's ability to channel both the light and dark sides is what allows her to in essence destroy both the Sith and Jedi. She has become the chosen one in that there is no longer light and dark. There is only the Force. She has in essence become the father in the Mortis arc. All future manifestations in the force will be equal, as they were prior to the events of the prequels.
     
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  16. The Chalk Jedi

    The Chalk Jedi Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 8, 2019
    Anakin balanced the Force. It's just that the process of destroying the Sith takes 40 years or more, according to the prophecy. "You shall be the one to destroy the Sith, partially, a partial 'destruction,' and then a few decades later, this partially destroyed Sith will resurrect fully and someone else will finish your job while you encourage them invisibly with words, your new job, but little does she know that this is again only a partial destruction that someone else will almost complete 40 years afterward. The point is, Sith destruction is always partial and part of a never ending process due to creative bankruptcy."
     
  17. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    I'm personally not a huge fan of the notions of Grey Jedi, but I think it's interesting to think that Rey may have achieved balance in herself by being a Palpatine offspring who finds good. But also there's her shooting Force lightning which is a dark side power but I read it more as for her it was showing she had a hereditary Palpatine power. Both to hint to the audience who she is related to but also in the Force she's something that comes from the balance, both sides so a "good" Jedi can Force lightning.

    Or Kylo just ticked her off that much it randomly erupted in unexpected Force lightning
     
  18. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 9, 2001
    It happened because of her frustration and anger. Her connection to the Force, especially in the presence of Kylo, results in powers just sort of slipping out, as when she caught the saber in The Force Awakens. This can also happen with the Dark Side. Force lightning is a Dark Side power.
     
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  19. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 13, 2014
    I don't much care for the notion of grey Jedi, either. I don't think Rey would be a grey Jedi though. I think the implication is that she is the Force. Neither Sith, nor Jedi. Neither light, nor dark.
     
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  20. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 13, 2014
    So what you're actually saying is Anakin was not the chosen one because he never finished the job. Just starting the destruction of the Sith is not fulfilling the prophecy, especially when the Jedi perspective specifically states the chosen one will destroy the Sith. Not partially destroy them and have someone finish it 40 years later.
     
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  21. Ubraniff Zalkaz

    Ubraniff Zalkaz Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 26, 2014
    I feel like Yoda expressing doubt about the prophesy, Qui-Gon sensing a vergence, and Sidious sensing a dyad, all ties it together to explain the prophesy.
     
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  22. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 9, 2001
    My take is that the midichlorians arranged themselves in Rey to make her a Dyad partner to Ben. Some sources consider this the fulfillment of a Sith prophecy, but I don't see that as necessary. The point is that the Force was ready to restore the balance when it was threatened, and made her the way she was. Had Anakin not killed the Emperor, he would have had his son and his potential offspring under his power. But the Emperor was dead, and recovering only slowly, so his son had the chance to try and start a new life. Eventually he had to hide Rey, but this would have never happened had she been born in the Empire.

    My assumption is that Palpatine's son was a secret that possibly only Vader knew about among the top Imperial functionaries. If possible the Emperor probably kept his son's existence a secret from Vader too. My guess about Luke and Leia is that they long suspected or knew the Emperor had an heir somewhere, but didn't have reason to believe he intended to try and take the throne. Maybe they even met him at some point. TROS dialogue tells us that Leia KNEW Rey's parentage by the time of that film, and I think it's fair to suppose that Luke at least suspected it.
     
  23. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    Maybe. Don't think it's been explained, though, if Leia knew from traditional sources or the Force, though. Not clear if Luke knew before or after his death, either.
     
  24. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    From the Art of TROS book:
    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 13, 2014
    Or it's possible Palps' son was not force sensitive, so they could not sense him for some time, or if they did sense him, because of his lack of force sensitivity, he was deemed as no threat to the throne.