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ST Rise Of Skywalker - Chosen One Prophecy

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by jedilord27, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. PadawanGussin

    PadawanGussin Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2017
    IMO -
    Rey is who Anakin would have become if the Jedi Order in general and Obi Wan ion particular, had not caused him to fall into Darkness.

    Anakin was a true prodigy in the Force. But instead of allowing Anakin to progress along his own path with guidance as required, Obi Wan consistently dismissed Anakins unique skills and set of circumstances in favor of the dogmatic Padawan training that was in place at the time of the PT. Ignore the fact that you know your mother will die, slow down , follow the rules or you will be expelled. sit on the High Council but not be a Master.

    If he had been trained by Qui Gon , who did not allow himself to become ensnared in the ridged thinking , but simply followed the will of the Force to the best of his ability, Anakin would have been able to explore his path in a much deeper and profound way.

    As for Rey, she was also a true Force prodigy. For myself, that's OK. There are prodigies in fiction and in the real world. In the ST, she progressed along a much more natural learning curve as she had to discover a great deal about herself without someone attempting to put her in a box. Leia also encouraged Rey to find her own way while helping her in building a stable basic foundation to support her.

    And as Yoda said, prophecy can be misunderstood and is always viewed thru the lens of the person hearing it.

    The Chosen One is not a set in stone step by step account of anyones life, It is a guide for every generation as to how to overcome adversity.
     
    Fredrik Vallestrand likes this.
  2. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    I think the prophecy of the force ties into different things. The mortis gods, the force priestess, the world between worlds, the unseen whills. Now with the dyad being a sith prophecy and we learn there are many prophecies.
     
  3. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    But who wrote these prophecies? My guess is Alan Smithee
     
  4. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
  5. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Four_Sages_of_Dwartii
    'Contentious'? About a prophecy maybe?Why were the sith into these guys?
    Palpatine was a lawgiver too. Were those ancient laws already insidious, containing loopholes and such? Moses was a lawgiver, and in the new testament the old testament (the old law/covenant) is sometimes quoted to support the coming of Christ/Anakin. So you would only have to build this kind of retcon trap for others (the jedi) to walk into in order to cloud their judgement.

    A prophecy is not a jedi thing, since always in motion is the future, and one has to be mindful of the future but not at the expense of the here and now, and so on. But somehow the PT jedi inherited the prophecy; they didn't believe in it necessarily, but somehow influenced their here and now preoccupation and made them too mindful of the future.

    What's more, prophecy and choice (chosen one) are contradictory. Whenever choice is free, there's no room for prophecy; but if you believe in prophecy to begin with, your capacity for making free choices will diminish - and that will favor those who prophesized in the first place. Anakin having premonitions about Padme's death and 'killing' her himself after becoming a sith is not so different from the jedi trusting a bringer of balance who finally left the force 'in darkness'...and joined the sith.

    Anakin is not called prophesized, but chosen. But the fact is, it was the jedi who chose him, and no one else. Under this perspective,
    sounds like an ancient sith trap being sprung.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  6. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2001
    It is possible to have a contingent prophecy. There are also interpretations whereby a prophecy could come true by way of multiple different avenues. People have pondered the compatibility of free will and destiny for almost three thousand years in European literature, philosophy and theology. It is as old as epic, seemingly, since it's an issue in The Iliad. For those unaware that book is the oldest existing literary text in the European tradition.
     
  7. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    http://ew.com/movies/2017/08/09/star-wars-last-jedi-rey-luke-skywalker-daisy-ridley-mark-hamill/
    Apparently, Luke became familiar with the chosen one idea at some point, but maybe not before that point. When?
    Was that one of the 'secrets'? Luke was in talking terms with Yoda and Anakin and Obi-Wan back then, and Anakin line in TROS is about bringing balance.
    The chosen one idea does not appear in the films, but bringing balance does, and so does the idea of balance being broken. 'For many years there was balance, then I saw Ben'

    Poe was born 3 years before Endor. In our world, adolescence starts at age 12 for boys, on average. So, 9 years after Endor would be the earliest date at which Luke could have 'vanished'. Were his efforts guided? Luke talked with Yoda and Anakin and Obi-Wan back then, and Anakin line in TROS is about bringing balance.

    Around that time things started to move.

    Two years after that -11 years after Endor- Leia sent Ben to Luke. 'Too much Vader' in Ben. Rey was born then; was she another chosen one, the jedi FG's plan B? Maybe Ben was first approached by Palpatine/Snoke when he was 9, the age Anakin had when first met Palpatine in TPM, and those ghostly guys started to plan in advance. 'Lost Ben Solo you did, lose Rey we must not'

    (Pablo Hidalgo said in a tweet that the jedi temple was 'someone else's idea for him[Luke]' - but in this case, that someone else looks evil. Maybe the KOR and those jedi hunters were there in order to create a reaction, the temple, that would be attacked and destroyed when the time was right. That destruction, as the Kylo Ren comic shows, was not Ben Solo's fault)
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020
  8. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2001
    Just after The Force Awakens apparently many fans thought the Knights of Ren had a hand in the Temple being destroyed. I found this out by going through all the old sequel forum threads. Man, this quarantine has opened up a lot of time.
     
  9. MaverickJedi85

    MaverickJedi85 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2019
    I see some people keep trying, very hard, to see the entire I-IX saga through the lens of the Chosen One prophecy, basically PT lore.

    That prophecy only works for Episodes I and II. Yoda and Windu already (kind of) dismissed it in III. Not only a misread prophecy, but basically a Qui-Gon mistake that ultimately placed a potential traitor and very flawed individual inside the very core of the Order (Anakin Skywalker).

    The prophecy was indeed misread and only meant that Anakin was destined to kill Palpatine, the Dark Lord of the Sith. How and when was irrelevant. (Ep VI). It only mattered because when it happened, actual balance was achieved (the 2 sith gone, only 1 Jedi remaining).

    Also, prophecies and sorcerer tales are nothing compared to the cloning technology and the mastery of the unnatural DS techniques to become immortal (IX). You can achieve balance, but you can't kill the DS, or prevent it from ever returning.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
  10. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
  11. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    The prophecy worked fine for episodes I-VI as a self-contained saga. The question is whether it still works in light of the ST.

    According to Lucas ( when the saga was I-VI ), Anakin was the Chosen One, which would mean that the prophecy was not in fact misread. The sequel trilogy supports the idea that Anakin brought balance, at least temporarily: both Luke and Anakin's ghost say so.

    The prophecy speaks of the restoration of balance. It never says anything about killing the dark side or preventing it from ever returning.

    The balance of the Force is not a question of relative numbers of Jedi and Sith. Jedi do not canonically unbalance the Force; in fact, the existence of the order promotes balance, as Lor San Tekka claimed.
     
  12. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    I like this post @Arawn_Fenn !

    I also like Yoda's conversation in Ep3 also means the prophecy could be wrong all along. There is a quite a bit of wiggle room for interpretation.

    There are two parts to the Chosen One Prophecy. They will bring Balance in the Force by destroying the Sith.

    I think the way the Sequel Trilogy ends, we see that without Anakin the Sith could not later be defeated for good on Exegol. Palpatine's ability to cheat death personally, and the Sith as collective being able to cheat death by transferring from Master to Apprentice took special steps to undo. Anakin is key to all of this.

    Even at the end of The Rise of Skywalker balance will not last forever, but perhaps the Sith really are done forever.

    Yeah - the prophecy speaks about the Sith never returning. Balance is always going to be in flux.

    1 Jedi + 1 Sith does not equal balance. This is the biggest misconception Star Wars fans have about the Force.

    The Sith are actively manipulating the Force out of balance for their own gain. 1 Sith equals imbalance in the Force. Any Sith at all means imbalance in the Force. That's because of the way they use the Force adds more darkness.

    The Jedi as an order actively work towards balance. The Jedi listen to the will of the Force and follow what it tells them. The Sith bend the Force to their own will.