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ST Rise Of Skywalker - Chosen One Prophecy

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by jedilord27, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. Metal Lord

    Metal Lord Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2016
    The Rise of Skywalker gave us a new overarching storyline. I am glad it did, because otherwise the sequels would have been a small story after the major story. TFA brought up nagging questions that needed to be answered, such as if / how it makes sense to reduce the success of the heroes of the original trilogy and why Rey is so powerful. TLJ steered towards a hint of a balance between light and dark and prevented the ST from being too repetitive by killing off the Imperator placeholder Snoke. Now, with TROS, the existence of the ST makes sense, not just within themselves, but within the entire saga. After having seen the movie, I wondered how this all fits together with the prophecy of the chosen one. I read a bit online about the chosen one and learned that Sheev hinted at having created Anakin (a hint I did not understand in its entirety before), but the Force reacted by making Anakin the chosen one (through midi-chlorians which seem to be manifestations of the Force which reminds me a bit of the Dao which is the inspiration for Lucas' Force because it's an energy field from which everything is born, so why not midi-chlorians?). When Anakin killed Sheev and himself in the process (since the force lightning finished his already wreaked body and armor off), the two remaining Sith lords (the rule of two) were dead. This is the balance that was foretold (the prophecy did not mention the destruction of the Sith. While Lucas stated that, it's not in the prophecy's text, so Anakin fulfilled it). It would have remained like that if Sheev had not found a way to return to his living form (in some way). That way, the Force needed to react and hence Rey was born as the most powerful Force user we have seen on the silver screen. So the Force vessels are Anakin and Rey, in order to counter the powerful Sheev during his lifetime and when he came back to life to mess with everyone. It is heavily implied that Ben is not the only one who got manipulated by Sheev. Imagine being Luke, suddenly feeling the presence of Sidious again - of course he reacted with caution / fear. What does this mean for Luke(, Leia) and Kylo / Ben? They seem to be part of the Force's way because they bring out the best out of the Force vessels (when Anakin was moved by Luke's compassion for him / when Rey regret that she killed Ben) and save them as well (when Luke continued to believe in the good inside Anakin / when Ben literally saved Rey's life). So, what about the ultimate balance that was talked about in the prophecy? In reality, every religious text ever is the product of humans' impressions and thoughts. For that, this prophecy is pretty good. And Sheev's return to the living is something no could have expected. It seems that the Sith and their worshippers are now all dead (it was awesome to see all the normal people join the fight) and Rey's scene on Tatooine symbolizes the end of the conflict. We seem to have the balance now finally here.

    Some questions remain:
    Maybe Rey can now be considered a grey Jedi, since the conflict between light and dark now can be seen as a thing of the past?
    Do we know anything about how Rey was conceived?

    Any way, she is obviously gifted by the Force and the revelation that Sheev is behind everything is what justifies the existence of the ST and spans a new arch from Episode I - IX. And that she is the new, most powerful Force vessel brings closure to what Sheev started with Shmi / Anakin back then. Kind of a poetic justice.

    What do you think?
    Are all Sith Lords part of the current one of the respective era (or does it just mean that both Sheev and Rey get support from the ancestors? Would have Sheev really taken over Rey?)?
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  2. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Rey herself was conceived most likely through sex between her mother and father as we see them in the movie through a flashback. I don’t think there was any force magic going on there. Palpatine’s son and Rey’s father is another matter entirely.
     
  3. Saturn830

    Saturn830 Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2019
    I was thinking about two things recently: whether or not Palpatine had discovered Exogol before his first death and what dark-side phenomenon he had sensed in the Unknown Regions right before Endor (initially this was implied to be Snoke, but now he apparently created Snoke so that explanation doesn't really make sense anymore). This in turn got me thinking back to the whole 'Chosen One' thing as well. If he did only discover this Sith stronghold after his first death and he only merged with all the previous Sith after this discovery, then the Anakin prophecy that he would 'destroy the Sith' could still be taken in a literal, if new and highly convoluted way.

    Basically, instead of Anakin destroying the Sith by killing the last one, he destroyed them by setting up the scenario where all the spirits of the previous Sith all merged into one so they could be permanently destroyed in one swoop. First he drew out the Sith after 1000 years in hiding due to the potential of his powers and then he inadvertently sent Sidious on the path to Exogol and the greater Sith legacy by unexpectedly foiling his plans/killing him. These events set up Rey and Ben to vaporize all the Sith at once; hence Anakin was the catalyst for the Sith's final destruction.

    Like I said, extremely convoluted. It also depends on how you feel about the Chosen One thing in the first place. It was never hugely important to me, personally, but I do like any scenario where Anakin - and by extent Luke through his redemption of his father - are directly responsible for the final end of Palpatine and the Sith as Lucas intended.
     
    whostheBossk and Palp_Faction like this.
  4. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Lol okay. Force healing has been a thing in Star Wars forever. It’s literally in the clone wars. So I don’t know what your talking about
     
  5. Jedi_Prophet77

    Jedi_Prophet77 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Every generation has its own confrontation with right and wrong. Anakin, Luke, and Rey were the 'chosen ones' for their time.
     
    jeangreyforever likes this.
  6. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    You realize that the Clone Wars is a recent addition in SW culture, right?
     
  7. MaverickJedi85

    MaverickJedi85 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2019
    The Prophecy of Chosen One is PT lore, and a retcon. Nothing in the OT ever mentions Vader being the "Chosen One" or the Balance of the Force. Vader's arc in the OT is about coming back to the light (in ROTJ, at least, because he was just this fascinating, formidable villian in ANH and ESB).

    You don't like that Palps is back because that contradicts the Chosen One prophecy? Fine by me, because I didn't like the Chosen One retcon prophecy of 1999-2005 either. And anyway, JJ mentions the "I brought balance to the Force" thing in TROS (Hayden's line), so at least he (kind of) acknowledges the Prophecy, which still works from a certain point of view (Vader did actually kill both Rule of the Two Sith, his Master and himself).
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  8. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Recent as being over ten years old since it first came out? Sure. I guess. My point is if your going to blame something in canon don’t blame this movie since it already existed prior.
     
    Emperor McClane likes this.
  9. Revan's Revenge

    Revan's Revenge Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    It's not quite that simple.

    I think they're trying to have their cake and eat it too in terms of preserving the outcome of the OT (Palpatine saying he already died, Anakin saying he restored balance) while also upping the stakes, bringing back previously-killed villains, and establishing Rey as some sort of uber-Jedi.
     
  10. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Anakin tells her “Bring balance to the force, Rey, as I did” so balance comes and goes as new dark siders rise. It was also him encouraging her and living within her at the end and both the lightsaber he created and one his daughter created that deflected Sidious lightning back.
     
  11. qui-gon-chan

    qui-gon-chan Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2018
    Ani indeed was the chosen one. He overthrew the Senate and saved his family. However, Palp tried to outsmart The Force by cheating death. In the end, The Force wrecked him with his own blood.
     
  12. Bananakin_

    Bananakin_ Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2016
    And it didn't need to. The Chosen One prophecy is harmless to Vader as a character. It's canon but even if you didn't like it, you didn't need it when watching Luke's story. And it's simultaneously beneficial for those who did like it. The prophecy doesn't go out of it's way to fundamentally change the overall story of the OT.

    Bringing back the Emperor is troubling as it is. Even without the Prequels, it undoes half of Anakin's sacrifice in RotJ. That satisfaction of Vader, Luke's very own father, getting to be the one to permanently end the monster that used him is now gone. TroS recontexualizes everything, and actually does change the overall story that came before. An ancient prophecy for a 30 year result? What kind of balance is that! It feels like it's more out of obligation than any meaningful respect.

    It's just needlessly being RotJ all over again, they're doing what's already been done and just handing the accomplishment over to Rey.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  13. MaverickJedi85

    MaverickJedi85 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2019
    In my opinion, TROS doesn't hurt ROTJ. Vader kills the man that has enslaved him to the DS for years, saves his son and dies as a Jedi, his true self.

    TROS hurts the Chosen One prophecy, as I've said, a retcon of the PT, but not the OT. If a dead Jedi Master can pull the strings as a Force Ghost, a powerful Sith Lord can cheat death.
     
  14. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    TITLE UPDATE.
     
  15. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    THREAD MERGE!
     
  16. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    To be fair, TPM mentions that there are many prophecies, and the seer may have only seen that particular moment in time. There aren't many details, and the "Prophecy" has undergone many changes between the novelization and ROTS, so it's kinda all over the place.
     
    Jedi_Master_Laker likes this.
  17. Jedi_Master_Laker

    Jedi_Master_Laker Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Nope I could not disagree more with that train of thought.
    This is what I feel is the end result of the ST with many people. The diminished significance of Anakin to the saga. There does not have to be a direct correlation between the importance of Anakin vs Luke vs Rey. They are independently important but Anakin holds a special place in the overall scheme. It's a shame that the ST has seemed to change that.
     
  18. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Luke was never a "Chosen One".

    "GL: I think it is obvious that he was wrong in Episode 1 and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct. The Phantom Menace refers to the force of the dark side of the Universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gonn are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."
     
  19. Jedi_Master_Laker

    Jedi_Master_Laker Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2002
    The Novels have recently made the prophecy ambiguous but the Clone Wars kinda makes it pretty definitive that Anakin is the Chosen one meant to bring balance
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  20. insideguy

    insideguy Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2019
    Religious fanatics believe in the chosen one. There is no chosen one. The Jedi in the end were fanatics. That is the entire point here. To punch holes in this.
     
    jeangreyforever likes this.
  21. Jedi_Master_Laker

    Jedi_Master_Laker Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2002
    This strengthens my earlier point.
    Here is someone who not only thinks there isn't a chosen one but the very belief in it is wrong and fanatical. It goes against everything I have believed about SW since '77. I'm not saying your wrong and I'm right, im just saddened by the gulf that separates our opinions
     
  22. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    But they aren’t canon sources as well as Anakin in the film itself say Anakin is the Chosen One. There are no ifs about it he is at least according to Canon.
     
  23. insideguy

    insideguy Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2019
    The idea of prophecies and the chosen one goes back as long as we go back. It was used in GOT a lot to. And GOT also didn't fulfill the prophecies in the end. The point of these things is to highlight that in the end you are in control of your destiny. Not some prophecy or some sage declaring someone chosen. Now someone can always say well the prophecy was fulfilled in some way. But that is like someone going through a prophets writings and picking and choosing. I mean no disrespect to anyone but thats what I get from these stories. I should edit that and say what got the Jedi in trouble was putting to much Fatih in prophecies.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  24. insideguy

    insideguy Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2019
    These are characters in a play. What they believe is relevant. But that doesn't mean what they believe is correct. A prophet or a prophecy can always be twisted to be fulfilled. That doesn't mean that the prophet is all knowing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  25. Jedi_Master_Laker

    Jedi_Master_Laker Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Well now what we are now debating is whether there is a deus ex machina in Star Wars.
    That answer is unequivocally yes there is.
    The Force.
     
    MeBeJedi likes this.