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ST Rise Of Skywalker - Chosen One Prophecy

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by jedilord27, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. themoth

    themoth Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Exactly. I imagine if he did kill Rey and Ben, Sidious would’ve remained on Exogol, commanding the fleet from his throne and probably destroying a ton of planets with the super lasers.
     
  2. MaverickJedi85

    MaverickJedi85 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Yes! It's interesting to note that, despite heavy blows to the New Republic in TFA and to the Resistance in TLJ, the Force itself was perfectly balanced in the whole ST (Luke/Leia/ Rey vs Sidious/Kylo Ren). In fact, the Chosen One prophecy remains fulfilled throughout the ST because Sidious actually fails to win!
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
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  3. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I have never looked at it like that. A good take
     
  4. DarthFixxxer

    DarthFixxxer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Anyone can dislike the concept of the Chosen One if they want, but:

    1. It is established by George Lucas, therefore the highest level of canon
    2. It does not invalidate or diminish anything in the OT, despite what one might think
    3. It is Anakin.

    Those are undeniable. After that point, anyone can choose to keep whatever they like or don't like. But George Lucas' 6 part saga makes the above pretty clear, and they are clarified even more in the Clone Wars. In Revenge of The Sith the Jedi think they might have misread the prophecy because Anakin turns into Darth Vader and is responsible for the destruction of the Jedi Order. But then in Return Of The Jedi he kills the Emperor and restores Balance Of The Force.

    If Vader was not there, Palpatine would have probably driven the Force into darkness and killed all the Jedi anyway. He had the Clone Army, he had Order 66 ready to go, and he had other apprentices prior to Anakin, who he could have used instead. Or he could have found a different one. So the significant difference that Anakin makes is his contribution in ROTJ, much more than in ROTS. Sidious had a plan with Maul, the plan was the same with Dooku, and it was the same with Anakin.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  5. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Balance isn’t about equal number of Jedi and Sith. And while you had 2 Sith in Sidious and Vader and 2 Jedi in Yoda and Kenobi, there wasn’t balance. Two Sith alone created an imbalance that was apparently was eliminated at the end of ROTJ and definitely at the end of TROS. Are you saying now there are no more Sith, no Snoke, no Ren, 0 Dark Siders, but we have Rey Skywalker, there’s still 1 Jedi, so we’re still imbalanced?

    And by the way if the Hindus were to play the Buddhists in a baseball game, the Hindus would win 1-0.
     
  6. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Balance of the Force isn't about the number of Good vs Evil Force users. It's about the damaged caused to the Force and the universe by the Sith (destroying planets, etc.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  7. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Then actually have the guts to do that. The Prophecy said that he'd "destroy the Sith" to bring balance. Yeah bringing in a new threat actually wouldn't have indicated anything. This does however. They took the worst option possible
     
  8. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Are you referring to Luke, or JJ?
     
  9. MaverickJedi85

    MaverickJedi85 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2019
    From a certain point of view, the Sith remain contained/hidden for most of the ST, and when they try to make their actual "return" in the third act of TROS (exact words) they get destroyed. So, from that point of view, TROS is about the Sith failing to unfulfill the Chosen One prophecy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  10. MaverickJedi85

    MaverickJedi85 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Umm,probably not? I'm not the biggest expert on the Chosen One prophecy, but by TPM Qui-Gon and the Jedi Council agree that the Force is somewhat "unbalanced" despite the hundreds of Jedi spread in the Galaxy maintaining lifelong peace and a corrupt yet stable democratic system. Mace Windu even thinks the Sith are gone forever, he tells Qui-Gon that. Is by ROTS when the Force gets actually severely unbalanced/left in the darkness.
     
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  11. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    You realize Mace was wrong, correct? He and Yoda discussed that at the end of TPM.

    Palatine has already planted the seeds of a long plan that will eventually undermine the Republic (building the clones, manipulating members of the Senate, etc.) The Jedi council originally ignored Qui-gon's belief of a Sith on Tatooine, but after killing Maul on Naboo, talking to Viceroy Nute Gunray, and finding Anakin, they know that something's going on.... They just can't discern what it is.

    If Balance of the Force referred to the number of Jedi and Sith, then the Force is balanced at the end of ROTS, and out of balance at the end of ROTJ when Luke stands alone and there are no Sith.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  12. MaverickJedi85

    MaverickJedi85 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Proof that the Balance of the Force theory barely makes sense and is better accepted as specific PT/Old Jedi order lore, and easily misread.
     
    jeangreyforever likes this.
  13. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Palpatine is still there. If he hides and has lost a few fingers or not, he is still there.
     
    The Legions of Lettow likes this.
  14. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    And still masterminding things. These attempts at splitting hairs to try and make this fit in with the Prophecy aren't at all convincing. You're never going to convince me that barely 30 years, and the same evil still being out that and plotting, is a satisfying "payoff" to that.
     
  15. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Well, that was never my intent. I was just talking about the Prophecy, itself.

    I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  16. Rock76

    Rock76 Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Just the fact that there's a lot of confusion and we can't even clearly state what happened,
    explains how badly this trilogy is written and above all this last The Rise of Skywalker which is a total trainwreck

    I have been a devoted fan for 40 years, imo it's indecent what Disney did

    Ep 7 The Copy and Paste
    Ep 8 The Parody
    Ep 9 The Madness
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
    Mark Pierre and Dagobah_Dude like this.
  17. Chewie's flea powder

    Chewie's flea powder Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    The only canon for episodes 7-9 is from Disney, George is not involved.
    Anakin said (in this movie...in his own voice) that he brought balance to the force. He also asks Rey to bring balance, so they can both be chosen ones if you like.
    Rey is a blood relative of Palpatine, so she is more like "the hidden one"...to me.
    Anakin's parentage is still a mystery, he has no known father, just like Shmi told us. So the Chosen One still applies to him (chosen by the force).

    I watched A New Hope in 1977, and I watched TROS in 2019 and I loved TROS. To me, it was a real fast-action, don't even think about blinking start wars movie, with many big reveals. That's Star Wars. I am grateful.
     
    StuntHelmet and whostheBossk like this.
  18. niccalas_cage

    niccalas_cage Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Bingo.
    Any other hypothesis and analysis beyond this is unnecessary use of brain power
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
    wobbits likes this.
  19. Jedsithor

    Jedsithor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2005
    The worst part was hearing Christensen say "restore the balance as I did" or something like that. I remember sitting there, thinking...uh...sorry man, turns out you didn't do squat.
     
  20. Chewie's flea powder

    Chewie's flea powder Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    So you mean saving Luke (and the galaxy) meant nothing?
     
  21. Metal Lord

    Metal Lord Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Some very negative views here.

    The balance WAS restored. It was only briefly because Palpatine survived or returned from the dead with the CO no longer being alive. That's why a new person got so gifted.

    What Palps started with Shmi and Anakin found an end in a Skywalker and a Palpatine. Kind of poetic justice and an end to the wars.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
  22. Palp_Faction

    Palp_Faction Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Now this I really like!
     
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  23. Palp_Faction

    Palp_Faction Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    SW is mythology so the existence of a Chosen One is a given. Anakin was the Chosen One, but what the ST is saying is that the Jedi used the Chosen One as a crutch, someone who was expected to destroy evil forever, but this was folly as the Jedi also had to play their part. In the end, it was the combined efforts of all the Jedi who had come before who could defeat evil once and for all. It's a similar message to TLJ: the galaxy expected Luke to save the day but in reality, Luke could only do so much and it was up to the galaxy to work together.
     
  24. insideguy

    insideguy Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2019
    My only point was this is a mythical story. You have characters within it who believe in the chosen one. The average citizen in this universe doesnt even think about this. I know Lucas has stated things about chosen ones and that Anakin was the chosen one. Whatever. Anakin was what, some Jedi thought was the chosen one. Nothing really stopped after ROTJ. You can actually see it in Mandalorian. The force is balanced? Great. Doesn't mean anything to Joe smoe living on Planet X. He is still cannon fodder for some nut job or evil dictator. The force being balanced didn't matter for 99.9 percent of the people in the galaxy if it ever was balanced.
     
  25. SmokeMonster4815162342

    SmokeMonster4815162342 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Narratively speaking, the chosen one prophecy was only intended to be darkly ironic, not something that the viewer should champion and celebrate.

    Yes, Anakin restores balance, but he plunges the universe farther into darkness beforehand. Does the ST really undermine the prophecy, showing there's another complication after the fact with Palpatine's revival and the balance being undone, anymore than Anakin's turn to the dark side before restoring the balance. To me, it just builds on that same irony.

    And really, the same thing always happens when there's visions of the future (Rey seeing Ben turn in TLJ, Ben seeing Rey turn), and the prophecy is no different. Characters often see what they want to see, focusing on the promise of the future, ignoring the reality in front of their eyes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019