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ST Rise Of Skywalker - Chosen One Prophecy

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by jedilord27, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    And the TLJ VD, which should be canon, said that Snoke was no Sith as the Sith had been destroyed. But the Dark Side had not been destroyed. And, yet the Sith hadn’t been destroyed.
     
  2. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Even Darth Maul was no longer a Sith when he returned on The Clone Wars. Only two there are. Which does raise the question - are their two in ST? Or is Palpatine to weak for an apprentice and stuck there on Exegol?
     
  3. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 14, 2015
    He’s definitely a Sith.
     
  4. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    The dark side was never going to be destroyed, we knew from the beginning that Snoke wasn't a Sith, and my understanding is that the VD was very incomplete to avoid spoiling anything about Palpatine.
     
    SWRed7 likes this.
  5. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    That's not what Darth Sidous said. And I didn't understand it either. Maul would still have the training and skills. What did Darth Sidious have that was so unique? After The Rise of Skywalker - what Sidious has is all the other Sith Lords possessing him.
     
  6. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    And he would possess his granddaughter. He has all the Sith Lords in him. He’s on the Sith home world. He was brought back to life by the Sith Eternal. He has the Sith Fleet and Army, the latter consisting of Legions named after Sith Lords. For the Sith ritual to succeed, his granddaughter must agree to become a Sith. After she refuses and he’s rejuvenated, he reasserts himself as the true Emperor. He’s a Sith. The last battle is between him and his granddaughter, between the Sith and the Jedi

    Maul ceased to be a Sith because he was defeated, ‘deceased’, and demoted because of Dooku. And in Rebels there’s Vader. And it appears Maul has rejected the Sith given how he was treated.

    Sidious may have been defeated and has been deceased, but the only demotion would be at the hands of his granddaughter at his wish.

    He’s a Sith.


    Spoil what? Perhaps there was a holocron of Palpatine in Treverrow’s script for IX, but no resurrected Palpatine. All JJ and KK said was they wanted Palpatine back from the beginning, but they didn’t know when or how.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  7. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Yes!!! Palpatine is definitely a Sith in The Rise of Skywalker. 100% he is a Sith. I thought you we saying Maul was still a Sith, which you weren't.

    There is no redeeming Palaptine. And with all those other Sith Lords inside of him he'll always be a Sith. Even if he was replaced, he'd still be there with his replacement.

    What is the head of a Sith Master like? Is it once voice? Is it the echo of thousands? Do the other Sith control him? Or does the current Sith Lord's personality rule?

    TLJ VD left a lot out about Snoke and his gaurd as well as Luke. Basically all the stuff left out of the trailer leading into TLJ are left out of TLJ VD. So TROS VD starts with a recap of the ST that includes pages on Luke on Crait, Snoke being cut in two, etc.

    And TROS VD leaves out what isn't in TROS trailers. No Han. No Palpatine images. Not much of the thrown room, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  8. ReySkywalkerfanboi

    ReySkywalkerfanboi Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2019
    I originally posted this in a different thread. It fits more here:

    I want to take a moment to pull in some context of Anakin and how the "Chosen One" prophecy pertains to Rey, Ben and the sequel story as a whole.

    It's quite clear, as Yoda put it: "A prophecy that misread could have been."

    The Jedi believed that the "Chosen One" was to destroy the Sith, and that destroying the Sith would bring balance to The Force. I happen to believe their misreading was led by the assumption that the Sith were the only problem with The Force.

    In my opinion The Rise of Skywalker and the sequel trilogy did NOT ruin Anakin's arch, but it in fact enlarged it and made it more significant.

    In the Prequels, The Jedi had lost their way, allowed themselves to be seduced by their hubris, becoming so powerful and complacent that they were manipulated by The Sith. Anakin brings balance to The Force, for a short period, by destroying The Jedi Order.

    In the Original Trilogy era, there is plenty of canon material explaining that nearly from day one, Anakin/Vader sought to usurp Palpatine, and to destroy the Sith Empire. As the imbalance grew greater and greater, to the point where the very last Jedi is about to be killed, Anakin brings balance back again, by not only killing Palpatine, but Vader as well. This sets up the events to come...

    Without Anakin there is no Rey, there is no Ben. Now it's not disclosed through canon yet, but I believe that Palpatine's son doesn't break free and move on to have a life with Rey's mother until the threat of his father is gone. And obviously, Leia and Han do not live if Anakin doesn't kill Palpatine. Thus, through the canon as it's presented now, the last vestige of the Skywalker blood is born, and the last vestige of Palpatine blood is born. Balance again, but yet doubly ironic as the natural light is the perceived dark in conflict. The natural dark is the perceived light in conflict.

    There is a dyad between the two. Now Snoke/Palpatine may have originally bridged their minds(or that could have been a lie), but it was obviously unclear to Palpatine just how significant this dyad was. Shocked to recognize an ancient prophecy during the battle of Exegol he said in TROS "A power over life itself. Unseen for generations".

    In the end, I interpret the ultimate light and the ultimate dark becoming one life force. Balance again, for now.
     
  9. Lordban

    Lordban Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2000
    As far as I remember, Lucas stated who the Chosen One was. Why is this a question again?
     
    wobbits likes this.
  10. ReySkywalkerfanboi

    ReySkywalkerfanboi Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2019
    I think the discussion is about whether or not the ST undermines or reinforces that fact.
     
    Lordban likes this.
  11. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel Socially And Emotionally Distant Mod Of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012

    Correct.
     
    Mostly Handless, MeBeJedi and Lordban like this.
  12. Lordban

    Lordban Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2000
    ... thanks for pointing out to me what should have been obvious... :p
     
    Pro Scoundrel likes this.
  13. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    According to Lucas 'even when Anakin turns into Darth Vader, he is still the Chosen One'.

    Did Vader cease to be the Chosen One when Anakin returned? Was FG Anakin the chosen one still?
     
  14. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Disney and the current Lucasfilm should have left the Chosen One prophecy alone. They should have left it alone. They should have left the Skywalker family saga alone. All of this only reminds me of how much they, along with J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson, had nearly ruined George Lucas' saga with their fiddling. Anakin Skwyalker was the Chosen One, as far as I'm concerned. As for Rey, her being a possible "Chosen One" is meaningless to me, like this latest trilogy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
    wobbits and Mark Pierre like this.
  15. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    Well, the idea of Palpatine not being really dead was a possibility after ROTS. The immediate point of the 'Plagueis the Wise' tragedy was Anakin's seduction, but the whole 'he taught his apprentice everyhting he knew[...]he could save others from death but not himself' was clearly a backdoor looking for a retcon.

    According to Lucas, Anakin ceased to be the chosen one. No sith, no chosen one. But had Palpatine been able to cheat death, a possibility Lucas himself had allowed, then what?

    Etc. I mean, it was a legitimate question already in 2005. Had the sith survived, would FG Anakin (the ROTS version of him, another idea from Lucas) be the chosen one still?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  16. All_Powerful_Jedi

    All_Powerful_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2003
    I don't think this needs to be too complicated. The dialogue informs us of what happens directly. Luke even says, "for many years, there was balance..." and Palpatine says "I have died before..." and the characters say "Somehow, Palpatine returned..."

    Therefore, Anakin fulfilled the prophecy when he killed Darth Sidious in ROTJ. Darth Sidious did die, and there was balance up until around the time The First Order emerged and started taking heads, largely due to Anakin's grandson going to the Dark Side.

    The only thing the films aren't clear on is the timeline, which I guess the Kylo Ren comics are filling in, but the prophecy just isn't relevant to the ST because it's in the past by that point.

    Is it stupid? I think so. Palpatine's zombified corpse has far too much influence and the timeline is really weird (influencing Ben from beyond the grave, killing his son/daughter-in-law), but the story is at least clear that Palpatine returned from the dead.
     
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  17. seattlemusicnerd

    seattlemusicnerd Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2014
    I haven't read the previous pages of this thread, but i like the idea that Anakin is the chosen one "from a certain point of view".
    Without Anakin, there would have been no Luke & Leia, Leia wouldn't have birthed Ben Solo.
    Luke trained Rey, even if just for 2-3 lessons. That wouldn't have been possible without Anakin being Luke's father.
    Leia sent Rey on her mission to find Luke. After Luke's death, she passed on what she could. Also not possible without Anakin being her father.
    Ben Solo returns to the light, goes to Exogol to help Rey defeat Palpatine, and Rey wouldn't have succeeded without his help.

    And so, Anakin set into action the events that would lead to returning the force to balance. Without his actions, none of those other events would have come to pass.
     
  18. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    yah, as mentioned, it can get a bit complicated but the films states it very explicitly that there was balance for years and it got effed up by Palpatine's return. Anakin even says to Rey "bring back the balance as I once did". So yah it's all Palpatine's fault cuz he cheated. Hence you need a dyad and all the Jedi to finish off what was left of him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  19. cratylus

    cratylus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2001
    Without getting into more opinions, I think that this thread addresses a really important question and it might be the most important one for determining how one views the sequel trilogy.
     
  20. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    No, he was always the Chosen One, intended to fulfill the Prophecy regardless of what happened to him along the way.
     
  21. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    But according to Ian McDiarmid, Lucas had made it clear that Anakin did kill Palpatine in ROTJ.
     
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  22. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    In that case, maybe he was behind the dyad. In the VD, it is called 'prophesized dyad' (prophesized by who, and to who? By 'grandfather' to Ben/Kylo?). Kylo Ren was unaware of it during the TFA interrogation scene, it says. But he was aware of it in TROS - and maybe since the TFA duel (that deleted 'it is you' line)

    Also:

    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a...-skywalker-jj-abrams-rey-powers-not-accident/
    Ghosts are spooky.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  23. Jedi_Prophet77

    Jedi_Prophet77 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Because people forget.
     
  24. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    The funny thing about the prophecy is that it lines up pretty perfectly with what the Saga has told us about visions. Jedi visions never play out exactly like the seer interprets it. The Jedi believe in a very simple interpretation of the prophecy. Anakin is the Chosen One and he will defeat the Sith and bring balance to the Force. That is what happens just not in the way the Jedi thought.

    Without Anakin though we would have no Luke or Leia. The Death Star wouldn't have been destroyed and the Sith would rule for who knows how long. But because Anakin does exist Luke is able to redeem him and he is able to destroy Palpatine. Luke is then able to train Leia who then trains Rey who then defeats Palpatine once and for all with the help of all the Jedi.

    It's still through Anakin that the Sith are destroyed. It's still through Anakin that balance is restored. It just took a little bit more time. I also like that at the end it isn't just one person responsible for saving the galaxy. It takes every single Jedi to finally put Palpatine down. Prophecies are great and all but you can't just sit back and relax because a child of destiny is going to save you. You have to save yourself too. The Jedi saved themselves from the darkness.
     
  25. The Chalk Jedi

    The Chalk Jedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2019
    I don't really think it works. It makes more sense if Palpatine doesn't return. But I think the final straw for Anakin's legacy is Palpatine staying dead.
     
    whostheBossk likes this.