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CT ROTJ Almost had Kenobi and Yoda fighting Palpatine as Force Ghosts

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Ahsoka's Tano, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 28, 2014
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  2. Binary_Sunset

    Binary_Sunset Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 28, 2000
    I don't like force ghosts at all, much less fighting force ghosts. I much prefer the doubtfully-heard voice of old Ben in the 1977 Star Wars film.
     
  3. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    This has been known for years. Along with the very logical reason for why the entire concept was abandoned.
     
  4. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 29, 2016
    Read that in The Making of Return of the Jedi.

    I will admit that I like the concept of Palpatine being haunted by the Force ghosts, if not actually fighting them. I did like how the Emperor was startled by Yoda in the rough draft.

    I’m good with what we got though.
     
  5. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 28, 2014
    Well of course considering the OT was supposed to be about Luke's journey, being aided by those Force ghosts would've been anti-climactic as opposed to his father having a sudden change of heart at the last minute. It's not to say the door's not open for something generational in TROS.
     
  6. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2015
    I agree. They feel a bit like a cheap way to bring back a character after the drama of their death has already been rinsed. Although, I do like the vision of Obi-Wan that appears in TESB on Hoth, but that is because it is presented as a faint apparition in swirling icy wind, appearing to an injured, hallucinating semi-conscious Luke. It worked great in that scene.
     
  7. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 28, 2014
  8. Binary_Sunset

    Binary_Sunset Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 28, 2000
    Yep. That vision is certainly the best of the bunch.
     
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  9. themoth

    themoth Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 5, 2015
    Yeah, agreed. It makes the viewer question if what Luke has seen is real or not.
     
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  10. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    There is another part - that I'm too lazy to type up right now - where during the battle, every time Palpatine shoots lightning at Luke, an energy dome surrounds and protects Luke, and you can see Yoda's image light up next to it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  11. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Knight star 2

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    Feb 19, 2019
    Hmm... was that the original intention for the line "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"?
     
  12. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

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    May 30, 2002
    Well, in the early ROTJ scripts, Ben and Yoda were able to return in the flesh. Plus, Ben is still able to talk to Luke as a ghost, and thus provide guidance without having to worry about Vader.
     
  13. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 15, 2012
    I hope they recycle this idea for 9
     
  14. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 25, 2003
    You know, I know it doesn't seem a very popular idea on this thread so far, but...I actually don't hate that. The idea of seeing Ghost Yoda and Obi-Wan fighting the Emperor while Luke fights Vader, and it's this multiple level kind of Force melee thing, Kind of interesting. Almost kind of reminds me of Prori Incantatem in Harry Potter, where Harry is fighting Voldemort and the "ghosts" of his parents help him get away by distracting Voldemort...That was a nice moment.

    I suppose I wouldn't be as open to this idea if I hadn't seen Yoda summon lightning in TLJ to burn the tree though. I've always been open to interesting new ideas related to the Force-as long as it doesn't get too "Force Unleashed/Mortal Kombat"-y.

    Also, the fact that GL was the one that first thought of it (if this is true), kind of adds a bit of cred to the idea too for me. IIRC, that also seems like an idea drawn from ancient mythology, as GL has done for many story elements. The idea of those that have passed on stepping in to help when it matters most. Maybe the physical events didn't actually occur in those tales directly, but just the kind of general feeling of it, if you know what I mean...

    [face_thinking] That's an interesting thought...that WOULD be some nice foreshadowing.

    TBH I would not be surprised. I don't know any spoilers or anything, but based on what I've seen/heard, I wouldn't think it seems all that farfetched. Although if they do that, I would love to see Anakin join the "fight."
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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  15. whostheBossk

    whostheBossk Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 16, 2002
    On one hand, since we never saw it on TROS, I feel as though something was left on the table not being able to see how a Force Spirit being could be all "powerful/holy" and protect/help Luke.
    On the other i wouldn't want to mess with the ending of the movie as Anakin has to make the right choice as Luke is in pain thus revealing his true good intentions. The Force Spirit would've made more sense for TROS but that's another thread.
     
  16. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

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    May 18, 2017
    It kind of negates Obi Wan's "I cannot interfere" line.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  17. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 25, 2003
    I figured the reason Obi-Wan would not interfere in ESB was cos he and Yoda didn't support the idea of Luke going to fight Darth Vader. In ROTJ it's different-Obi-Wan and Yoda both told him he had to that time.
     
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  18. Binder-lover

    Binder-lover Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 3, 2003
    Wonder what the ST would've been like built on that as a foundation!
     
  19. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Feb 18, 2014
    It really would have put to rest the whole debate about what force ghosts could do
     
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  20. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    There has to be limitations to keep the story grounded, i preferred it that only in a certain place, strong with Force could Force ghosts become corporeal. Now with the last two episodes of the ST done and dusted, it opens the possibility of Force ghosts physically interacting any place, any time.
     
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  21. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 25, 2003
    I actually like the idea that Force ghosts can use the Force to interact in certain ways with the physical universe. I mean-if you stop and actually think about it-why wouldn't/couldn't they? The very fact that they could make themselves appear in the physical universe in the first place kind of makes it logical from just a basic sense. But I agree-the concept should have limitations.

    I personally wouldn't have pushed for the Force ghosts to actually help out in ROTJ and TROS climaxes-cos to me that opens up too many cans of worms (like for one: why then wouldn't they just help in every conflict?). It also seems a little too video-gamey to me, as a concept. But I would have liked them to at least be interacting with the main character at some point during the conflict, perhaps not unlike Harry Potter at the battle of Hogwarts. TROS came quite close with this-it was only voice but not image. To me it would've been perfect if they would've actually appeared visually as well. It would be interesting to see how Palpatine would react to this as well, provided he also could see them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  22. BlackRanger

    BlackRanger Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 14, 2018
    Force ghosts being "audio only" is an idea that shows up in SW 1977, in ROTS, and now in TROS. Funny that it keeps intruding its head into the light that way.
     
  23. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

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    May 18, 2017
    Obi Wan's "I cannot interfere." From a certain point of view again Luke [face_laugh]
     
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  24. IrB

    IrB Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jun 16, 2016
    When someone does any kind of creative work, the first drafts have very often ideas that don't really works and so then they are left out. So, I guess it isn't strange that in the process of writing we can find out some odd stuffs. If it was discarded, it didn't probably work!
     
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  25. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

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    May 18, 2017
    hey a fellow Lego.
     
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